Aquinas 5A Champs!

Just got the news: 10 placers, 2 finalists and 4 in for third and fourth....Way To Go Boys!
I guess they are far enough ahead now that even though Carrol has some studs in the finals they can't catch up.
That shows a lot of character for those seniors that lost in the semis and still put it together today for the team title. Good Job!
My alma mater has made me proud!

It shows how tough the state tournament is this year though. I remember when we won 6a in '05 we had 2 finalists and 7 total placers and were able to win.....this year we were holding our breath with 10 placers!

Once again, Congratulations Saint Thomas Aquinas!

.

beat me to it

congrats to STA, just wondering if any teams in the past have won the team title w/o having any champs?

I believe that Paola did around 2000.

STA DOES NOT RECRUIT. how many catholic high schools are in the kansas city region??? they have excellent wrestlers year in and year out, not to mention their coaches did an outstanding job. i can guarantee that if you go through your lineup, every one of their wrestlers are catholic. everyone always trys to blame the fact that just because a team is good and wins state, they must recruit. example, i went to bishop carroll. last years state championship team here is a list of the varsity wrestlers and what MIDDLE SCHOOL THEY ATTENDED: Kellers- St. Francis of Assisi, Isaac Johnston- St. Francis of Assisi, BJ Axemen St. Elizabeth Anne Seton, Kyle Detmer- St. Francis of Assisi, Tom McDonald- St. Jude, Mitch Arnold- St. Francis of Assisi, Tyler Rosenhamer- St. Francis of Assisi, David Loos- Mayberry (Member of the Resurrection Church), Thomas Ronck- St. Elizabeth Anne Seton, Ben Meyer- St. Elizabeth Anne Seton, Jake Cole- St. Elizabeth Anne Seton, Nick Heincker- St. Francis of Assisi, Brendon Cody- St. Jude. ALL CATHOLIC!!!!

tom mcdonald

congrats to sta, the catholic schools representing

I don't know if they do recruit, but both Markey's....Olathe north as freshman. The thought being if you have a kid that is showing great potential and wish them to continue to develope. You can "choose" to send your kid to one of the best programs in eastern kansas, catholic or not, conveniently, without regard to school boundry lines. That being said, until there is parochial school state tournament, this is what you get. Congrats to STA and all the fine athletes who attend.

The recruiting thing is totally bogus… When you got a hot line to the Pope you know good things are going to happen! They proved them selves this weekend. Congratulations 5A State Champs!

Not to mention Milstead was at a different school his freshman year... was 34-6 as a freshman won 2 matches at state tourney, just for some trivia, his second lost at state his freshman year, wrestling 125, was to Judd Schroder,Andale who got second at 160 this year.

anyone in the area know they recruit. Just like rockhurst. they talk with parents and get what they want. It's a fact and dont let anyone try to hide it. That is just the way it is and will always be. Look at basketball across the nation. Where do all the great players come from? Same schools. Interesting?
Aquinas seems to get at these Olathe kids in 9th grade as they are not in high school yet in that district. Markey brothers are an example. One other they talked with at the Johnson COunty classic a few years back was Almauger who chose to stay at his home school instead of going to Aquinas. He could have been their champ this year.

Just the way it is and others have to live with it.

by the way millstead was taken away from Ward and "transfered" to Aquinas.

Congrats to all these KIDS, no matter what their parents and coaches do behind closed doors. Good luck in the future.

I guess I don't understand, but I see things differently. When I see individuals and teams succeed at any level I respect the hard work and dedication put in to that success, Not to mention the great parent support and great coaching, rather than belittle the accomplishments to make myself feel better.

Vikes, you do know that those basketball school you are talking of are boarding schools and aren't actual high schools, kind of like Blair Academy? That is totally different.

Like I said before, I am very proud of the TEN state placers for the Saints, and I am very impressed with how hard those kids fought through the back door with four third places and four fifths! That is unheard of...
I've witnessed the hard work so I know the mysterious reasons for the success: Determination and work ethic! That success will carry over into college and whatever other endeavors these boys pursue!

Well it is not fair to public schools when Catholic schools can bring in great athletes from all over the state. I went to a parochial school until I was in 6th grade and TMP came and visited my school in Great Bend. I know Catholic school provide a better education and I can not blame parents for sending their kids there for that reason. But I know that they try to bring in good athletes to their schools. Not taking anything away from them guys, you have to bust your balls to be able to get 10 placers. I just think they should have to have some restrictions on where they get their kids.

CONGRATULATIONS STA
You deserve the 5 A Title to come through the back door ,
never giving up. This is a great example of team pride and
dedication . As a BC fan my hat is off to STA.

yes the academies are the same thing. Families "adopt" these athletes from rough backgrounds and put them in the schools. Happens to be those families have very close ties financially to the athletic programs at those schools (sometimes the coaches)

I also have not said anything negative about the kids. They are not better because they went to Aquinas, they are better because they worked hard. The whole point of how they all are on the same team is what is questionable.

Also, wrestling alum may be correct about the great bend area, but the three big public districts (Shawnee Mission, Olathe and Blue Valley)area are all better academic institutions than Aquinas. Aquinas offers the religious side that is not allowed in public education. So saying they went there for academics is not an argument.

Anyway, this post was originally to say congrats to the kids for their individual accomplishments, but once again they should have won because they were given an advantage the most other schools were not.

I see what vikes is talking about and I’ve heard of the recruiting thing also with STA. I don’t like it because it make for an uneven playing field, but don’t take away from the STA kids. I’m positive they have worked hard for what they have accomplished.

We have brought these woes upon ourselves because we have placed so much emphasis on sports and winning. It is not enough for a kid to compete and just enjoy sports anymore. Many parents are filled will delusions of grandeur that their kids are going to be division one athletes and with that undue pressure is placed upon coaches to produce unrealistic results or lose their job. If I was put in this position as a coach and I had the opportunity to use recruiting options I would probably consider it. I’m not saying that STA does this I’m just addressing the possibility of this situation.

Until KSHSAA steps in and follows through with guidelines against recruiting, which I wish they would, we just have to deal with it. Probably the best option would be to make a private school classification and let it fund it’s own state tournament, but we all know that KSHSAA doesn’t possess the wisdom of the world as they might have you believe.

Congratulations STA Wrestlers on your championship.

Congratulation to STA on an outstanding performance at the State tournament. Always enjoy competing against STA and it is great to see an East Kansas School win the title.

Also, hats of to Bishop Carroll. Tough program. I know a couple of Lansing kids that will be hitting the weight room hard this summer after running into the BC boys.

See you all in freestyle.

Mike Flynn
Spartan Wrestling

While there is no question the Catholic schools are allowed to operate under a different set of rules as far as who gets in and where they come from to attend their particular schools, I agree with those who have stated before in this thread that the kids should not be villified for taking advantage of their opportunities, working hard and becoming champions. People can be mad that STA won a team title if they want to be mad about it, but that doesn't change the fact that each of those individual wrestlers earned their way into the state tournament, and those who medaled earned their medals by wrestling good and working hard. Especially those who came through the back side. It was an impressive all-around performance by those guys, and they deserve to be commended for it.
Congratulations to STA for your great season and strong showing at the state tournament. And congratulations to all of the wrestlers from all of the schools at state. It was an exciting tournament to watch, no matter which school was being represented. Well done boys!

To say that only private schools recruit is malarky. I know for a fact so do the public schools.This has gone on for years and always has . Wichita South had a waitng list during the 80's under Steve Eck. It still goes on today. Wichita NW has done it also for football. So it does go on.

In 2004: Manhatten, my alma matter KC Turner, and Scott City all won state titles without any individual champions.

Wow - you seem to know an awful lot about Aquinas from recruiting to being a lesser academic institution than the local public schools! Do you have stats to back up your statement? I don't claim that Aquinas is better than public schools but it is certainly EQUAL! The religious aspect is a bonus for which my family, and I'm sure many others, sacrifice to pay for.

I also want to say that the Bishop Carroll coaches and wrestlers were class acts last night - making it a point to shake hands with all of our wrestlers after the team trophies were handed out.

Ok I came from a public school who competed against private schools who probably recruited and amazingly we still managed to win state as a team several times, so I don't really believe in the validity of that arguement. So maybe STA did recruit ... big deal!!! They won state because their wrestlers worked their butts off and won matches, thus they are the legitimate champions. To try and take that away from them is an act of sad unsportsmanlike conduct.

Though I don't believe I have ever personally wrestled anyone from STA we did wrestle against BC and mopped the floor with them back then. A wrestling programs success depends on the kids program first of all, then the wrestlers themselves who take it upon themselves to get better, and lastly the instruction of the coaches. Just like at Clay Center, they are a great team and have been for several years, and they don't recruit anyone.

Please just let STA bask in their glory for awhile before you start the bashing, and give them credit for winning.

Congrats to STA.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/16226115.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_local

seems to me like in this isolated instance, aquinas's academics in both reading and math standardized test scores are right on with the KC public schools. although you hardly can judge a school's overall academics by one year of testing, not to mention that this whole arguement is stupid.

jed maime has been decided on going to sta since like 6th grade. even if they do recruit slightly (i don't know if they do) they still have to practice, make weight, win, stay out of trouble, and stay elgible. Hayden supposibly recruits and they only took one kid to state so obviously recruiting doesn't matter anyway. I think that the people that started the conversation of recruitment by sta are just tired of getting whooped and needed an excuse to feel better about not winning a team title.

As for the Hayden allegation, I think that argument is more directed toward their football program than any other sport, considering they are the smallest school in their league by far and win their league title pretty much every single year.

But as far as wrestling goes, thetiger makes an excellent point about the kids clubs. STA has a very good kids club program, and it you look back to when STA got its kids club program going, their high school success followed suit about four or five years after that when the kids club guys entered high school.
Look at the strongest programs in the state year after year, and it's likely that they have strong kids club programs. That is no coincidence.

I agree that STA's kids club has developed many of these team champion wrestlers, and it helped make me a successful high school wrestler. If "everyone in the area knows they recruit" I find it odd that no punishment has been handed down accordingly.

These people try to say things like "Aquinas knows the real story..." as if somehow we are really good at deceiving people. The truth is most of these kids were set on coming here for awhile and very few kids came later by the choice of their families. Then add all the other positive parts of this team, like hard work and commitment, and please explain to me why your upset with their success?

Enjoy it Saints, you worked hard, and those that matter are extremely proud and have tons of respect for your accomplishments!

And anyone trying to say the Johnson county public schools provide a better education than STA have no facts to back that statement. The education departments seem pretty equal to me....The only thing better at johnson County public schools for a FACT is their lunches!!!

I would have to say STA's education is better just in the fact that they can teach the teaching of Jesus! How govt can support schools that teach evolution (anti-religion), against the constitution, and not support private schools is bull. Good job STA you guys really cleaned house. I was glad to see someone besides Carrol win it.

Right on 1086,

When the public schools make it illegal to question evolution, you have to know they are hiding something. Mandating a theory that says there is no God violates the separation of church and state.

http://www.scienceprovesit.com

one reason why im glad i go to a public university, i dont have to worry about any of that stuff and the teachers can basically teach whatever they like.

I dont see it as recruiting. What I see is one mighty fine kids program that feeds into the high school. These kids grow up together on the mat and become friends. It is not like that there are established wrestlers at public schools that suddenly transfer. They have been brought up together and it is only natural for them to go where they feel comfortable

Evolution schmevolution. The real truth can be found here:
http://www.venganza.org/

:-)

Very well said, Andy. I know the guys would have loved to had you there to see it. You would have really enjoyed that backside charge on Saturday.

You would have been especially proud of this incredible senior class who brought all the team together for a pep talk Friday night in a team only meeting and rallied all of them for their comeback on Saturday in the wrestlebacks. The seniors did it on the mat Saturday too. They scored wins and pins to take the team over the top. They fought their way to third and fifth place finishes. Most of them have been together for many years thru kids and high school wrestling. They gave it their all that day for the team. They really wanted it bad and they did it.

Congratulations to this special senior class: Ike Woodroof, Bo Noles, Brian Huston, Skyler Scott, Brendan Berko, Mark Millstead, Scott Markey, Paul Markey, Brian Sullivan, RJ Nill, Jed Mamie, Mike Hammer and Alex Lopez.

The Aquinas wrestling community will cherish this class always. Great job, guys!

That is absolutely true. My son started wrestling with this club in the fourth grade when this incredible senior class that I mentioned in my previous post were sixth graders. My son had been with another kids club and we wanted to have him go with another club with more open wrestlers for practice partners. A friend of mine at a kids club meet wanted me to watched a kid who he said was one of the most intense wrestlers he had seen. That was a young Phillip Henes who was probably in about the third or fourth grade then. My friend was right. I started watching the team and I saw many of these seniors as STA members in local kids tournaments. I saw from the results page how well this group along with Neil Cisper, Andy Hurla and others did in their kids club wrestling with the STA club.

We made the choice to switch my son to the STA club and we have never regreted that choice. He was thrown around a lot by this senior class of wrestlers. He really took his lumps in that wrestling room but he became a better wrestler. When it came time to make his choice two years ago he decided exactly how you described it on staying with his teammates from his STA club. He knew that it would make it harder for him to break into the varsity lineup but he also knew it would make him a better high school wrestler to be in that Aquinas wrestling room just like it made him better to be in the STA kids practice room.

He was never recruited by the Aquinas high school wrestling staff or other parents. He did not have to be recruited.

I want to add my congrats to STA. They wrestled an outstaning tournament. All day saturday we at BC kept waiting, or hoping, for them to stumble to give us a chance to catch them - but they never did. Not only was it impressive to win a team title with no individual champs but in the 3/4 and 5/6 medal rounds they went an incredible 8-0.

I think a parent said it best to me this weekend. He said, "There should be a Catholic school State so the rest of us can compete!" I'm not saying that they recruit, but, if the kids are to attend a Catholic high school, it should be the one they live closest to. That's the way it is for the rest of us. I know that when I was in high school (20 years ago), I had to receive special permission from the state to attend a different high school (the one in the district I was living didn't offer wrestling as a sport at all). But I agree with vikes. The KIDS deserve all the credit, as they were the ones out on the mat performing, and they performed well!

Congrats Aldon Isenburg on winning a State Title.

as a public school person i can say that i think having a seperate catholic or private school chmpionship is absolutly ridicoulous. if for no other reason the absolute best competition in the state needs to be on the mat. i am strongly opposed to dilluting the competition. look at all the great individual matches that wouldnt have happened if private schools weren't there. 160 final, 189 evans-mamie semifinal, wood-nowak heavyweight semi, wood-keller 103 semi, arnold-buehler 140 final, the list is much longer then this. take away these matches and our state tournaments are much weaker. plus its not like the public schools arent competing. its not like STA has won the last 10 team titles. plus some of the most dominant wrestlers in the state are from public schools(evans, caldwell, elliot, hansen, etc etc). i'm a huge supporter of public schools and personally i think there may be something to the allegations thats STA recruits, but who cares? sure they might have it a little easier, thats part of life. for kansas wrestling to reach its full potential we need to continue to keep the best product on the mat and having seperate state titles is certainly not that way to do that.

Well, I don't know whether they recruit or not, and don't care. What they do have is an outstanding kids program, great parental and community support and outstanding coaches. When you go up against STA, you had better bring your A game. My kids attended a rival school and facing STA was always a great challenge. Neither school failed to get excited about the opporutunity, which provided for some great EKL Championship battles. I have always viewed STA as a worthy advesary and one tough customer. Congratulations to Coach Parks and the good folks from STA...Job Well Done!

I'm going to weigh in on this a bit!

I agree with the diluted pool comments! Isn't our pool shallow enough since we claim 4 State Champs per weight in Kansas?

To those of you who choose to cast stones, Do you live in an USD that accepts out-of-district students? What is your opinion on that?

As a parent, I wanted to give my kids every opportunity to have every advantage my salary could afford them. I actually took a job in a different district with consideration to the type of education my kids would have.

The BC, STA, arguments are the latest but far from the first. In my school days (early 70's) Kaupan was the argument! And in a few years, I imagine St. James will be talked about.

If you think the private schools are the "only" opportunity to further your wrestling skills, I think you are wrong. I'm looking into real estate in North Central Kansas. I think Clay Center, Beloit, Norton, Smith Center are looking pretty attractive!

Someone always has to try to knock someone down from the top!

Forget the recruiting talk, its ridiculous

Congrats, is wild that several of us said back in the early 90's that once they got the right coach and a solid kids program this program could have a dynasty. Now if that happens only time will tell. I believe their first state medal was in 89 to Geoooof Alderman. How times have changed.

There is only one wrestling dynasty in kansas sta has awhile to match up with that i beleive 10 more years.

Hey , BC will be there. You will have to go through BC.
Looking forward to the rematch.

First of all, evolution does not say that there is no god. Evolution is not a religion; it does not require faith because it is testable.

To suggest that evolution is the antithesis of religion is irresponsible. Dr. Greg Graffin of Cornell headed a study to determine the degree to which the world's leading evolutionary biologists believe in traditional religion, naturalism, and the philosophical implications of their science titled "Evolution, Monism, Atheism and the Naturalist World View" concluded that there is "...no conflict between evolutionary theory and religion..."



Anywho, I'd like to congratulate STA on a championship.

I'm from Hutch, and I had the pleasure of watching their team really develop from 2000 to 2004, it's no wonder they're where they are now.

How can you say it is not anti religion? It says that we developed from single celled organisms from the ocean. Uhh that pretty well sounds like they are saying there is not such thing as God. I could care less if they teach evolution I just think they need to teach some sort of creationism in there to. It is unconstitutional to teach one side of it and not the other. I would be just as apposed if they were to teach only creationism and not evolution.

Evolution does not promote nor denounce the existence of an all powerful god and therefor, does not infringe on the separation of church and state.

Evolution is not anti-religion because it has nothing to do with religion. Evolution is science. The Bible is religion. The purpose of science is to determine the mechanisms by which the universe operates - of which evolution is one. The purpose of religion is to determine the meaning the universe - its purpose for existence. Knowing that mankind evolved from apes does not give us any answers as to why we are here, it just informs us as to how we got here.

Evolution means that things change over time. Yep. I agree. Things change over time. But, how did the things get here in the first place? This is where orgins come into play. This is also where religion comes into play. Some people make a religion of evolution by trying to have it account for something that it can't - namely orgins. To believe in evolution in regards to orgins requires FAITH (and therefore, it is a religion) because it is not testable. So, evolution can be a religion - it just depends on one's understand of evolution as it relates to orgins (how did all things get here in the first place vs. the simple and proveable fact that things change over time).

Dwelsh you got it.
But what is sad is if you think about all the lives taken away in the (religion relm) it might suggest that the idea of putting one side against another could be looked at with a more open view of the controversy associated with religion.

Spirituality is cool. Religion sucks.

I could bore all with defining my terms, but i'll pass!

However, standard disclaimer for me - Jesus Christ is my Lord and died for my sins.

Doing some research on your own will show that there are scads of hypotheses and theories in the evolutionary community as to the origin of life.

Here are some keywords to look up:
Abiogenesis
Panspermia
Astrobiology
Exobiology
Clay Theory

Of course, these hypotheses all have some criticism, but that's why they're hypotheses.

Methinks this is a discussion for the "other" section of this forum.

None of the above are proveable, therefore, at this point - they take faith. They are not science, at this point.

But agreed, this belongs in the 'other' section. I'm pretty much done with it anyway.

how many lives have been taken in the name of religion
Now tell me where the devil lives,

You know Smokey Cabin is to blame for that team effort as much as any body.

At least no rumors of Dui's this year.

sounds like a discussion more appropriate for the other board. The evolution discussion that is.

lol, evolution isn't anti-religion (many pro evolutionists are devout) it is just an explanation for how we became what we are. Gvnt support of private schools is a bs idea in its self. Private schools don't have to follow basic regulations set by the federal gvnt, thus they aren't public and don't deserve funding.

Although evolution isn't anit-religion, I would have to disagree that Private schools don't have to folow the same regulations. At STA all students have to take the Kansas Asessment as Juniors in order to certify that the education recieved is adequate according to the standards of both the state and federal GOVERNMENT.

Otherwise, a high school diploma recieved from a private institution would be worthless outside of the private institution, The same goes for home-schooled students. Although they are being home-schooled, there are still tests the kids must pass in order to verify they are recieving a proper education. If that weren't the case we could be learning the proper techniques of spitting a spitball at Aquinas and have the same diploma paper as anywhere else, and no one would know any better.

I hope that makes sense.

Facts (science) are the only LOGICAL evidence that explain our existence, some believe. Archeology proves evolution, so does basic biology, it is foolish to believe otherwise, some believe. Tens of thousands of scientists can prove mathematically or otherwise that our existence not only a product of evolution, but also that matter (everything, including us) has always existed (big bang theory), believing other seems naive to the mechanical mind.

If someone chooses to believe a book that has only the credibility of the paper it's written on, asinine. Analytical/Methodical people follow a credible source, science, no matter how religious they are, to help understand nature and the interactions that go on within.

The difference in people is in origin, where we originated from. Evolution explains how we "advanced" from subspecies, not how our material came to exist. Some believe that out matter came from a deity, others believe that our matter always existed (BB theory). One choice always seems more logical than the other, whether the person is rational to begin with is a completely different argument.

Well said Mr. Hurla.

Yes, they have to be accredited by the state to have validity. But to say that the only regulations the state are state testing isn't true. Besides Lemon vs. Kurtzman said the state or federal gvnt. cannot help finance parochial or otherwise religiously connected schools. It's worthless to argue something that's impossible for a school to obtain.

That is corrext, Smyll. I was not arguing that the government should fund private schools, I just wnateed to make it clear that private high schools, at least in Kansas, do have to adhere to the minimum regulations for education set by the government.

It is true that, as of now, it is against court precedent for the government to fund private high schools.

And the case you are refering to (Lemon v Kurtzman) has beeen clarified in other U.S. Supreme Court rulings since 1971 to allow for some Student aid to those enrolled in parochial schools, commonly in the form of a voucher.
This is from an article in the Cincinatti business Courier:

"The U.S. Supreme Court's new understanding distinguishes "student aid" from "aid to religious schools." Public aid to students at parochial schools is constitutional, Justice O'Connor explained, "where the aid is allocated on the basis of neutral, secular criteria that neither favor nor disfavor religion and is made available to both religious and secular beneficiaries on a nondiscriminatory basis."

These criteria confirm that the Constitution's First Amendment religion clause does not compel the exclusion of religious groups from government benefits programs "generally available to a broad class of participants."
You can find this article at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/1998/08/31/editorial2.html

So perhaps the argument isn't worthless?

"How govt can support schools that teach evolution (anti-religion), against the constitution, and not support private schools is bull." This was his argument, secular funding is contradictory to his religious vs. evolution argument.

If a state can fund evolution, why not religion?

1) Religion isn't secular
2) Evolution is a very BROAD way to look at things (secular)

There is a reason for the establishment clause, it is in our founding regulations. To stray from a strict interpretation of the constitution is to stray from the country itself (in my opinion).

Now, if the parochial school is benefiting student positively without mention of god, then church and state has been separated and funding can/should be allocated.

The constitution has the seperation of church and state in there to prevent there from being one national religion. In the old days, peasants use to be taxed to support a religion that they do not believe in. The Church of England being one. The framers of the constitution put this amendment in the constitution to keep the government from establishing a national government thus taxing people for a religion they are not. Not teaching some kind of creationism or even mentioning it is not teaching the full spectrum. Why should I pay taxes to support a school that teaches evolution that I believe is anti-religion. Big bang theory is not science it is a theory. It cannot be proven just like creationism cannot be proven. It takes just as much faith to believe in the big bang theory as does creationism. I believe humans have "adapted" to meet our enviroment. This is evident with the heights our our grandparents compared to our heights. But to support one therory and not the other is in your words asinine.

"Why should I pay taxes to support a school that teaches evolution that I believe is anti-religion. Big bang theory is not science it is a theory. It cannot be proven just like creationism cannot be proven. It takes just as much faith to believe in the big bang theory as does creationism. I believe humans have "adapted" to meet our enviroment. This is evident with the heights our our grandparents compared to our heights. But to support one therory and not the other is in your words asinine. "

Evolution isn't inherently anti-religion, that comment doesn't make sense. Evolution does not directly attack any particular religion or debark a holy testament. You should pay taxes for evolution because evolution is real, it happened/is happening. We evolved from subspecies, there is nothing you can do about it.

You have no evidence that god is real (I am not claiming the he/she doesn't exist, just trying to prove a point). There is infinitely more CONCLUSIVE evidence of evolution than there is of a deity because there is no evidence of a deity, there is only faith.

Why does someone support evolution? Because it make sense, it is backed by the smartest people on this planet, and there is undeniable evidence. Whether you like it or not, it will continue to be taught and as the years pass, it will be a secular idea (even though it already is accepted widely). I support it because I don't support bologna, kthx.

"Big bang theory is not science it is a theory." That was likely the most ignorant comment I have heard all week. Go read a Newsweek or something.

It looks like we forgot this post is supposed to be "Good Job Aquinas" or "You recruit we hate you". Scientist and Preachers please move to the other forum.

Yeah, I don't know how it got to evolution and how tax-payers want their dollars to be spent on education, although it is a healthy disscussion.
The bottom line is Aquinas could not have asked for a better season by praying to their diety or from the process of evolution.....
and now there are just 33 more teams left ahead until the national forums accuse us of recruiting!
Godspeed

Wow, this topic no longer has any business being on the wrestling forum.

Um didn't they just find jesus's body somewhere else, looks like you guys are waisting your time on sundays when you could be sleeping, evolution rocks. And big bang was real not just theory.

No they didn't find Jesus' body. They supposidly found his sons, Mary Magdaline, and Virgin Mary's. They have no way of proving this is any relation to Jesus. What are they going to do ask him to come down from heaven and give a dna sample lol.

Dumbass 1 and Dumbass 2 fight about it somewhere else.

Take it to the soccer board!

Hey Beeson eat me! If I want to argue about something I can. There is nothing, I dont think, that says we cant argue about something in here that relates to schools.

Yes, but it's an annoyance to those who have to skim over it in order to find the posts on wrestling. Therefore, since this is a wrestling forum, it's common courtesy to not waste people's time with four pages of an argument that only a select few people want to read.

I would probably just chew you up and spit you out.

thanks guys. this post has offered me with some good humor...things i find funny/ironic.

1. The guy arguing the Christian point of view and I would guess considers himself a Christian said "eat me" to someone else.

2. Someone actually "And big bang was real not just theory." man, talk about convincing supporting evidence.

3. People are complaining about the evolution being taught in Kansas public schools, which is undoubtedly one of the most conservative states on the issue.

I'd like to add a couple final thoughts although I really shouldn't even post on this topic. Everyone should really shut up about tax dollars. Public schools don't want tax dollars going to private schools. But heres the kicker, NEITHER DO MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS! As soon as private schools become state funded they have to play by a different set of rules. They have to educate anyone that comes(LD, BD, English 2nd language, etc etc) just like the public schools. The thing that makes private schools nice is they can take or refuse anyone they want. Give them state money and they cannot do that. So get off the tax dollar kick...private school officials don't want it either.
Evolution is going to be taught to some degree in schools. As a conservative Christian I accept that, Biology class taught me things and made me a more well rounded individual, it did not make me reject my faith, nor will it anyone else's who's faith is worth much anyway.

Undeniable evidence? Name one fact about evolution. You will find that it's anti-science. Everything that we observe on this earth devolves. The law of entropy alone proves that evolution is an inverted fantasy.

Interesting thread....

Congratulations to all the wrestlers who made it to state. And to STA who represented eastern Kansas quite well.

Looks like religion can still get folks all riled up.

Remember, it's called "a leap of faith" because it isn't logical or scientific. It's not supposed to be. Evolution is irrelevant to a person's belief in God.

Evolution can't be denied. It's still going on. Again, that doesn't mean you can't believe in God.

It's too late to put much religion back into the public schools, but lots of schools have morning prayer groups and they open up the schools to be used for church services on Sunday. So there's still an opportunity to learn about God even without going to Church on Sunday.

The Constitution doesn't contain the phrase "separation of church and state." It was first used in a letter written by, I believe, Thomas Jefferson. The Supreme Court picked it up but the idea comes from the Establishment Clause. It's complicated and historical. Most of the founding fathers were Deists. Not all were even believers. It is interesting history. They didn't all agree on religion, but they all agreed they didn't want religion, any religion, controlling our government.

Take a look around the World and ask yourself if it wouldn't be a more peaceful place if people weren't killing each other over religious beliefs. Strange business killing in God's name.

And maybe they did find Jesus' casket...that doesn't change anything. If you must tie your faith to historical facts, or the absence of historical facts, you are going to be lead astray.

Godspeed.

By bringing up entropy, I will assume that you are simply referring to the second law of thermodynamics.

The usual anti-evolution argument that abuses the second law usually says something like "Everything tends toward increasing entropy (randomness and disorder). Evolution of life involves the development of great complexity and order. Therefore, evolution is impossible by the second law of thermodynamics." While it sounds simple, there are major flaws in this argument that render it worthless.

It is only in isolated systems that entropy must increase. Systems that can exchange energy with their surroundings have no such restriction. For example, water can freeze into ice (becoming more ordered and decreasing its entropy) by giving up heat to its surroundings (this increases the entropy of the surroundings, of course). In the case of the Earth, the Sun is a major source of energy, and the Earth also radiates energy into space. One consequence of thermodynamics is that, when energy comes from a "hot" source (like the Sun) and is output to a "cold" reservoir (like space), it can be used to do work, which means that "complexity" or "order" can be produced. The main point is that, for a non-isolated system, an increase in "complexity" (to the extent one can connect that concept with the thermodynamic entropy, which is far from straightforward for living creatures) does not necessarily indicate a violation of the 2nd law. A good example is the development of a human fetus into an adult; this is the production of a more thermodynamically complex system but involves no violation of the laws of thermodynamics.


That is from an expert of molecular thermodynamic's website , because he could put it into much easier words than I can (he also knows a whole lot more than I) He also happens to be a devout christian.


To touch more on Evolution as a theory. A common argument by proponents on creationism and intelligent design is that Evolution is JUST a theory - and this is true. If you are skeptical by nature, unfamiliar with the terminology of science, and unaware of the overwhelming evidence, you might even be tempted to say that it's "just" a theory. In the same sense, relativity as described by Albert Einstein is "just" a theory. The notion that Earth orbits around the sun rather than vice versa, offered by Copernicus in 1543, is a theory. Continental drift is a theory. The existence, structure, and dynamics of atoms? Atomic theory. Even electricity is a theoretical construct, involving electrons, which are tiny units of charged mass that no one has ever seen. Each of these theories is an explanation that has been confirmed to such a degree, by observation and experiment, that knowledgeable experts accept it as fact. That's what scientists mean when they talk about a theory: not a dreamy and unreliable speculation, but an explanatory statement that fits the evidence.

"Take a look around the World and ask yourself if it wouldn't be a more peaceful place if people weren't killing each other over religious beliefs. Strange business killing in God's name."

I have never thought of it that way... interesting.

a lot of people want to make the argument that the world would be a better place w/o religion. thats bull. some people do kill in the name of their god. that is true. but overall faith makes a person better. the christian-judeo principals that most of us live by in this country are the standards that make a lot of people good moral individuals. yes, their are extremists, but extremists are unbalanced individuals and a lot of them would kill even without their religion. and lets remember OKC bomber Timothy McVeigh was an athiest and he is not the only one...murderers/terrorists are unbalanced individuals, some kill because of a faith, some kill without a faith. I think the bottom line though is the faith influence in America makes nearly everyone who is of faith a better person.

sta sta sta
sounds like the brady bunch
and Sta is the Marsha of Kansas wrestling with all those brides maids this year.
Let them fund and run their own private league and State tournament.

That is a common and often refuted answer.

The entropy law applies to open systems as well as isolated systems. This is why no machine or process is 100 percent efficient and why perpetual motion machines are impossible. This is why everything eventually wears out, runs down and dies.

Even those systems which seem to show increasing order for a time eventually lose out to the principle of decay. The crystal finally disintegrates, the adult finally dies, the population eventually stabilizes and finally disappears, the species becomes extinct, even great civilizations sooner or later perish as the result of outside conquest or famine or, perhaps, a nuclear holocaust. Thus, every apparent increase of order and complexity is, at best, only local and temporary, and at the cost of greater disorder to the environment from which it extracts its ephemeral ordering energy.

In other words, The law of entropy teaches that the net direction of the universe is always downward towards greater disorder and chaos -- not greater order or complexity, REGARDLESS of an open or closed system.

Troll, keep in mind that the families that choose to send their kids to Catholic school's are paying the same taxes to fund public school's as you do. The only benifit they recieve from these tax dollars is the hope that they may educate someone like yourself. Thanks very much for letting us use our/your athletic facilitys.

Thank you very much.
I guess that I owe you some Icecream from DQ.
Oh yeah hiptobecool said he was buying so I guess you can collect from them. So back to the bridge I go.

Im not against evolution I just dont believe that it should be the only theory taught in schools. My generation has evolved in height compared to my grandparents generation. There are more 6 foot idividuals walking around the earth by ratio than ever before. They say we evolved from monkeys into humans, where is that middle link? There is not one. So how can they be for sure that we evolved from them? They can't! They cannot prove the big bang theory. How did all this matter just happen to gather and form this perfect atmosphere for life. And where did the first life come from. You can not tell me the mitocondria just happened by some freak accident to take form. Why cant they put a sentense in text books that says some theorist believe that some happenings are to complex to just happen and took a superior being to create. If kids do not believe in it they will just dismiss it. I just think teaching one theory and not the other is wrong when there are other theories out there to explain them.

I just had to weigh in on this on.

Evolution:
I don't think evolution is anti-religous. I think religion is just being anti-scientific. I'm a Christian, and in my opinion its hypocritical to pick and choose your science. Should we also exclude the theory of gravity from our schools. Christian's enjoy, use and benefit from the millions of developments and inventions from the scientific process. A good example would be the communication and info we exchange on this internet. Why should we celebrate the things science awards us, but deny the things we don't agree with.


The creationism theory (if you would call it a theory) should be taught in church. I don't disagree with it. Evolution is science and belongs in schools. Its there to be studied, critized and dissected. I'm not quoting verse, but a big concept in the new testament is to seek out truth. We shouldn't reject evolution because it doesn't fit your strict literal interpretation of the bible.

Now my opinion on STA wrestling. They are definitively the best team in Kansas this year and deserving of the state championship. Do they recruit? I have to say no, at least until I see some real tangible written evidence that they do recruit. Nobody has produced this evidence, so people should watch what they say about them.

Do they need to recruit? Probably not. Success builds success, and success is a good and legal recruiter.
And being a private school, they have a natural advantage over public shools. You're in denial if you don't believe that.
A lot of parents will send there kid to go there just to have a chance to be a part of a state champion and to get good coaching.

I'll put it this way. If I had a top notch eighth grader and let's say I lived in a Johnson county school district were most of it's high schools were extremely weak at wrestling. I won't mention names but the districts initials are S.M.. I'm not catholic, believe in evolution (see above), and would have an extremely difficult time coming up with tuition to STA. I still would seriously consider sending my kid to STA.

Just curious, I know they teach creationsism at Aquinas, but do they teach anything about evolution besides that they don't believe in it?

Your comment about evolution being criticized and dissected is the exact opposite of reality. It is protected from any criticism and is definitely not dissected. Have you read the science standards in Kansas? Have you ever seen a science project that demonstrates evolution? Go to the next science fair that you see in High School. There won't be one project on the subject. It can't be tested. Go to http://www.scienceprovesit.com and hit the links at the top. Learn the truth.

Growing isn't evolution, it's nutrition.

No it is evolving to fit our enviroment.

What? Our environment is bigger?

No but the nutrition in our enviroment is better, which makes us evolve/addapt to our enviroment.

Think about your comment. Better nutrition is not genetic. It has nothing to do with evolution.

I never said anything about genetics. Humans today are alot larger than they were a century ago. That is adapting or evolving to what the enviroment gives you.

You sir are an idiot. We are talking about biological evolution not a person's ability to grow when fed well. Now, if we ate like this for 70,000 years, evolution may take place.

Evolution:
A change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

Ok then I just flat out do not believe in evolution. I believe people adapt and change to their enviroment. Didn't they call it evolving when monkeys learned how to use sticks to get termites out of holes? That is not a change in genetics.

They got the termites, but they are still monkeys.