First round matches

Any good first round matches this year? One that caught my eye was Tujague vs. Reynolds at 5A 113. It only seems right that Tujague should forfeit, as a boy and girl wrestling is contrary to the church's teaching. Attending St. James, a part of the Archdiocese of Kansas City, would put Tujague in this category. It may seem unfair, but that's what the diocese says.
Chief usually has things to say about the church's teaching. What are your thoughts on this? Personally, I think it would be a sin to neglect the word of the Archdiocese of Kansas City.

It is certainly not a sin to neglect the word of a man. Scripture however does not prohibit a boy competing against a girl. Thanks for asking!

A kid from Maur Hill wrestled a girl Friday at regionals. 3a in Sabetha. They are under the same leadership as the Kc teams.

Maybe they have dropped their extra-biblical stance?

You would think that as a student of faith Mr. Tujague would have the ethics to know it is not right to grapple or engage in such a way with a female.

Not sure whats up. They forfeited to a girl at one tourney then wrestled one at another. I would think that either the KC kids could do the same with no punishment. Or the Powers that be will strike Maur Hill with lightening. Lol. Kidding. But should follow same rules and punishments

Why is your topic first round match ups and then you post about wether a catholic school wrestler should wrestle a girl. Just curious about your motivation behind this post. Do you have a personal interest or do you really want to find out about first round match ups. Seems kind of odd for someone who has only been a member for five days!!!

Note the first sentence of my original post. I then chose to bring one up that caught my interest. Please, if you know of interesting first round matches, post them.

Ornales vs. Atkins
Hoing vs. Elbrader
McCray vs. Mills
Frame vs. Marx
Like vs. Defore

These are interesting first round matches that will be fun to watch and talk about in 5A. The motive behind your first post is pretty clear. There are plenty of matches worth talking about and the one you chose to exploit is not one of them.

Another interesting couple of match ups are in the works!!!! I am so glad that qwerty brought up the Tujague vs. Reynolds match to start.

Another one....285 Johnson vs Stephenson....THe planets aligned on this one. I hear that Johson's views on Post Modern Art was mocked by Stephenson as, and I quote, "Lacking Substance and originallity". To think that he did not say this on Facebook, but on the Today show. Not sure as to how this one is going to work out. Stephenson is the superior wrestler, but you give a guy the bulliten board material under the big lights at state and it turns into a coin flip.

106. Michaels v Jackson. This is one that is a feud that has gone on for centuries. Everyone knows that Michaels is a card carrying member of the Allied Atheist Allegiance and that his science is far superior to Jackson, a member of United Atheist Alliance. The fact that they are in the same building together is stretching the bounds of protocall for both groups. They have conviened a conclave, of sorts, to help them decide if they can accually touch each other, let alone wrestle. Keep up with the ever changing story on Stephen Hawkings Blog...Space, Holy Crap it's cold.

170.Now the one that we never would happen in our life time. Marx vs Che. Who is the greater communist???? One likes Red the other loves green. The fact that those are the colors of the ankle bands worn by the competitors makes this a clash of the Commie Titans!!!!!! (ECHO ECHO ECHO) THere are going to be nukes pointed at starving countries for this one. i heard that the loser has to shave their bad facial hair.

As you can see these match ups are going to be epic. Now back to QWERTY McPoopyPants. Nice try. Good bait setting. Now get a real screen name, or go back to the one you were using before, and come up with a real wrestling topic. If you want to discuss your opinion as to how the "church is being hypocritical" then call / PM someone that would care to even talk about it. Other than that...Jesus Loves you and so do I.

Peace and Rainbows,

Craig C. Adams

Awesome!

I agree, brilliant!!!

Hmmm, our interests must differ because this is an interesting matchup to me. It's interesting in the fact that a boy attending a Catholic school is poised to wrestle a girl in the state tournament. This isn't the first time this has happened and has been noted that forfeits do happen. Now, should he be forced to forfeit? I don't know, this is not a black and white matter. Other diocese across the country state that a boy is not to wrestle a girl. Kansas City has had the issue recently, if I recall correctly. I will just contact the diocese and ask them the question as nobody here seems to be knowledgable on the matter.

There are people on here who know the answer already and are not speaking up yet! The people I speak of are usually quite vocal on this forum.

Please let us know what you find out after contacting the diocese.

Didn't this same situation with the same school come up last year at regionals or state with a quality wrestler having to forfeit?

If I remember right he will have to forfeit the first round. Which is truly a shame, as this could possibly effect the Team Point outcome. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would really hate to win a State Championship because he is required to forfeit. Not a good situation for anybody.

Agreed!!! In a perfect world it would be nice to have a system that allowed the kid's to settle it on the mat, but that is not the lay of the land.

You might find the bracket below interesting. No disrespect to the girl wrestler, but she found herself in the regional finals because of this rule. Two very good wrestlers had to forfeit to her. These forfeits changed the entire composure of the state bracket.

I know for a fact at least one of the wrestlers in the bracket below would have had no personal issues wrestling the match!

http://s102.trackwrestling.com/tw/predef...amp;templateId=

In a perfect world it would be nice to have a system that kept girls and boys wrestling separate, as in Texas. They have girls wrestling as a completely separate entity. I think that is the best solution.

I say it is unethical for a healthy wrestler to forfeit to another wrestler and then continue to wrestle others later on. Many people are overlooking the fact that this has a huge impact on the others in the bracket. It's hard enough to place in state as it is, then you put one of the best wrestlers in the bracket on the backside in the first round because of a forfeit and they eliminate other possible placers had the right person (girl) be on the backside.

If the catholic schools cannot wrestle girls they should be eliminated from any bracket that has a girl in it. Why do we let them get away with cheap like this when we don't have to.

To comment See new post: catholic schools make their own rules.

AMEN! AMEN! Is the Archdiocese of KC infallible? Instead of having the Archdiocese of KC think for you . . . be a Berean and think for yourself - Acts 17:11 . . . yes, it is often hard word to think for one's own self . . . but the rewards obtained from doing so are more than worth it. GOLD!

Do you have a verse or two that state your above OPINION?

Catholics do think for themselves, but when you attend a Catholic School, you have to follow the school rules set by the archdiocese. A Catholic wrestling for a KC public school can certainly wrestle a girl.

'Catholic' simply means a member of the Universal Body of Christ.

"Universal; including all Christians;"

The Clarendon dictionary. By William Hand Browne, Samuel Stehman Haldeman. Published 1894 (A more expansive definition of the word is provided just before my signature line)

ROMAN Catholic is the religion that generally speaking, when it comes to religious manners . . . don't question US, just follow and do as told. . . otherwise we will kick you out.

About 500 years ago . . .a humble little Roman Catholic named Martin Luther had a few things he wanted to discuss with the 'Church'. They branded him a heretic and chased him all over Europe wanting desperately to KILL HIM and his movement.

I encourage all to be Bereans as stated above. Peace to all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

World English Dictionary
catholic (ˈkæθəlɪk, ˈkæθlɪk)

— adj
1. universal; relating to all men; all-inclusive
2. comprehensive in interests, tastes, etc; broad-minded; liberal

[C14: from Latin catholicus, from Greek katholikos universal, from katholou in general, from kata- according to + holos whole]

Actually, the term catholic with a little c means universal. The term was used initially because prior to the schism in the 1000's and the Reformation that began a few centuries later, it was the one universal Christian Chirch of Europe. After the Reformation, Catholic with an upper case C became a term generally associated with the Roman Catholic denomination.

I would encourage people to find a faith where they can grow spiritually, but then again, I'm not a spiritual bigot!

Or better yet, bypass the religious part and just think for yourself. Quit being indoctrinated and controlled and decide for yourself, then you have nothing to complain about.

We could split hairs on your first paragraph (see another definition of the word below) but this forum is not about religion and/or 'word-smithing'.

And, I agree with your second paragraph.

Finally, I am not a spiritual bigot. May God keep **all** safe this weekend. Catholics with an upper case 'C', catholics with a lower class 'c', believers and unbelievers, ALL people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Word Origin & History

catholic
c.1350, "of the doctrines of the ancient Church," lit. "universally accepted," from L.L. catholicus "universal, general," from Gk. katholikos, from phrase kath' holou, from kata "about" + gen. of holos "whole" (see safe (adj.)). Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, ***after*** the Reformation.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

*Therefore, the word's original intent and origin was meant to be for all believers of Christ. The church of Rome, 'hijacked' the word and made it their own . . . AFTER the Reformation.

It would be a TRAVESTY for him to forfeit. Put aside religion and think about the thousands of hours this kid has put in to get where he is. You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming from the mat. If its really an issue give me the phone number to the diocese and I'll try to explain it to them. Kids wait their whole life for this opportunity...there's no way he should be denied because of his religion unless he chooses to forfeit based on his own beliefs.

I'm a card carrying catholic and Knight of Columbus if that matters.

Amen! God Bless!

I'm new to this, but felt this was an appropriate time to enter the forum. Please excuse my lack of polish and wit so often, entertainingly, displayed here.

Let me start by saying, I have no problem with girls wrestling. They are as tough mentally and physically as any male athlete. My daughter was an elite gymnast since she was a little girl. She practiced 6 days a week, 4 hours a day. When she was a freshman at OE she could do more pull-ups and sit-ups than any of the boys in her class. (So could the other female gymnasts). If she had wrestled, I have no doubt she would have been incredible.

But that is not the point of this thread. Although asdf... named the tread "First round matches" He should have named it "What is the Catholic school going to do?"



asdf... You are not interested in the matchup. You do not think it might be close or possible upset. You are only interested in knowing whether or not the school or wrestler is going to disobey the Archdiocese policy regarding men wrestling women.

I know several commenters mentioned that the policy is not biblically derived. I respectfully disagree, but that can be open to debate.

I can only recall two mentions of wrestling in the Bible (depending on which version you read). First: Genesis 32:24: "And Jacob was left alone. And a man came and wrestled with him until the breaking of the day." And Ephesians 6:12: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

There is no mention, that I know of, of the rightness or wrongness of wrestling girls. However, there are some over aching philosophies regarding treating people and behavior. Ephesians is mainly about that general behavioral philosophy. I think that Biblically based philosophy is what lead the Archdiocese to derive this policy. (My opinion only). I do not believe the Archdiocese' policy was instigated because of the fear of inappropriate physical contact between the two sexes. I believe is is derived by how we should treat each other.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says: "Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless." I interpret this from the literal, "husband and wife", to include how all men should behave and act toward all women in general. I believe men should be taught to honor, be considerate, revere, and respect women. This policy is just one small way to instill that to our young men. Not all of us agree with their policy. Is it sinful to wrestle a female? No, it is not. It is also not a sin if you don't: 1 open a door for a lady, 2 offer up your seat to a lady, 3 stand when a lady leaves or returns to a table, or 4 put the toilet seat down. But I still do those things and think it is good policy. But to say that the policy is not biblically based would be incorrect in my opinion. Some of you will retort that I am interpreting the Bible incorrectly. My response is that there are over 30,000 protestant denominations. Each interpreting the different renditions of the Bible on their own. Who is to say which of them is right?

The greatest summation of the Christian faith I have ever heard was relayed to me by a 90 year old Greek Orthodox lady named Christina Rigas, who had immigrated from the old country. She told me about the time a TV repair man, who was Muslim, came to her house. He saw the picture of The Madonna on her wall. He became angry pointed at the picture and made some disparaging comments. She told me she was very scared. But she said to the man, "You can believe what you want to believe and I can believe what I want to believe, but you have to like Jesus' philosophy". "What is that?" the man said. "Live in peace and love one another." she replied. "Live in peace and love one another." she repeated. The man smiled and fixed her TV for free. I think a lot more of us need to look at Miss Christina's philosophy of the Bible and not just read it as a rule book. That section of Ephesians is so beautiful when you just read it and soak it in. It loses its meaning if you try to break it down into a rule or a law.

So what is the SJA wrestling team going to do? I don't know. But I hope they follow the policy set before them, whether they agree with the philosophy behind it or not.

Sorry for the long initial rant. I will shorten it up in the future.

Who is to say which of then is right? God does

You can believe what you want to believe & I can believe what I want to believe. True but only one is right.


John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

At the end of the day it comes down to this... Biblical or Extra-Biblical. The decision to force a male wrestler to forfeit to a female wrestler is an extra-biblical position.



The only truth written to mankind, the Bible, has no prohibition to compete in a sporting event against the opposite gender.




If this wrestler were to compete for Kapaun Mt. Carmel, Maur Hill or many other Catholic schools across America, he would be allowed to compete freely this weekend. The 195 Archdiocese's are not united on this extra-biblical position.




Live in peace and love one another? How does that apply when a male wrestles a male? Are they also violating this exampled principle?




If a wrestler chooses on their own to not wrestle girls based on their personal conviction, I am all for them and completely respect their decision. What I am not for is the extra-biblical edict imposed on Catholic student-athletes in certain geographic areas.

Now back to first round matches! Some of these are off the radar but I recommend that you buy some popcorn and peanut M&M's (an all-american breakfast) and get a good seat to watch these matches.

5A:
132 - Sawyer Like v Joey DeFore
138 - Marcus Phillips v Zack Schridde
145 - Luke Sponsel v Garrett Haskins
152 - Daniel Butler v Forlanda Parker
160 - Christian Rivas v Chris Smith
160 - Nolan Kirmer v Seth Burnett
195 - Heydon Mock v Caleb Ward
220 - Noah Ornelas v Corey Atkins
220 - Cameron Hicks v Tavon Alleyne
220 - Justin Henry v Malcolm Pink
285 - Sergio Borjas v Hayden Perry
285 - Mason Naphy v Porfirio Flores


6A:
106 - Efrain Sanchez v Darion Bailey
113 - Quailin Fowler v Kane Crider
120 - Logan Mueller v Tanner Brown
126 - Jake Wilgers v TJ Burger
126 - Devin Norris v Jason Laramore
145 - Aryus Jones v Aaron Taylor
145 - Tanner Madl v Earnest Caldwell
160 - Colton Steele v Matt McLeod
170 - Micquille Robinson v Sam Skwarlo
170 - Jared Page v Josh Mullin
220 - Carter Tierney v Carlos Brown
285 - Teryn Brown v Tyler Bastian

The Bible was written by man, therefore it is flawed also. It has had it's books translated, to what men think it means, picked and chosen by men and approved by a king. Present day it has been translated to modern English, street slang, New International Version, where it loses even more meaning. Whatever truth what was in the bible is fading more and more as it is translated by MEN.

It's the only truth written to mankind, the anvil that's worn out all the hammers, as written in it's original manuscript, which we have in much more reliable copies than any other relied upon historical documents. The NIV which you speak of is considered a "dynamic" version and not to be studied from, even though it is still exclusive in it's gospel message. The NASB is a much more literal translation. The critical issue is this.....! The versions that we have are crystal clear on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To dismiss the text with the "written by men" comment without understanding the fundamental truth of the finished work of Christ on the cross is reckless at best and eternally catastrophic at worst.

Thank you Chief for getting this topic back on track.

While some of the debate has been intriguing, I have begun to wonder why so many people waste their time on this forum debating righteousness when instead, they could be wasting their time running for the state legislature where they can debate righteousness all day long and then use their moral authority to apply laws to everyone in Kansas. That would at least save me the time of cleaning up all of the indignant remarks that I have seen in the last few days. I have moderated this forum for about 12 years and these past few days have seen the largest amount of requests ever to review posts, and in most cases, rightfully so.

Our wrestling community is better than this.

I am not sure why a debate over a first round match has brought out the worst in some very respected posters on this forum. It is not some new mystery that the arch diocese of KCK prohibits boys from wrestling girls, every parent and wrestler under their leadership should recognize that this is not some capricious rule that suddenly came about this week. It was always the possibility that this scenario would play itself out at the state tournament someday. Having worked in both a private school and a public school, I know two things: the private school belonged to the Bishop who could trump anything I did and the public school belongs to the Board who can trump anything I do.

Now back to first round matches! Some of these are off the radar but I recommend that you buy some popcorn and peanut M&M's (an all-american breakfast) and get a good seat to watch these matches.

5A:
132 - Sawyer Like v Joey DeFore
138 - Marcus Phillips v Zack Schridde
145 - Luke Sponsel v Garrett Haskins
152 - Daniel Butler v Forlanda Parker
160 - Christian Rivas v Chris Smith
160 - Nolan Kirmer v Seth Burnett
195 - Heydon Mock v Caleb Ward
220 - Noah Ornelas v Corey Atkins
220 - Cameron Hicks v Tavon Alleyne
220 - Justin Henry v Malcolm Pink
285 - Sergio Borjas v Hayden Perry
285 - Mason Naphy v Porfirio Flores


6A:
106 - Efrain Sanchez v Darion Bailey
113 - Quailin Fowler v Kane Crider
120 - Logan Mueller v Tanner Brown
126 - Jake Wilgers v TJ Burger
126 - Devin Norris v Jason Laramore
145 - Aryus Jones v Aaron Taylor
145 - Tanner Madl v Earnest Caldwell
160 - Colton Steele v Matt McLeod
170 - Micquille Robinson v Sam Skwarlo
170 - Jared Page v Josh Mullin
220 - Carter Tierney v Carlos Brown
285 - Teryn Brown v Tyler Bastian

5A 138 Max Detwiler 21-9 v. Brett Cobb 25-9, two super strong dudes.

5A 160 Seth Burnett 32-8 v. Nollan Kirmer 30-15, 1-0 when they met earlier this year.

That bump may be the biggest gamble you will ever take.

5A 106 Zach Campbell 35-0 v. Dakota Taylor 19-19. How can someone be 35-0 and this far under the radar. Taylor had a stupid tough schedule.

I am looking forward to seeing Zach compete. That TW schedule has kept him under the radar. As far as I've seen he has beaten one ranked kid 6-5 in Jay Maxville. He might be the sleeper in that brutal bracket. He is also in a great place on the lower half of the bottom side. He is the favorite to make the semis against Elias if it falls that way. Once again, my rankings were not state placing predictions, they were based on historical criteria.

Best wishes to that undefeated Charger from Topeka West!