Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached

Lets talk about Steve Allen and Todd Roberts! In the last 30 years, I would say they are the worst refs ever. The pair are the biggest jokes I have seen!
Beason and Cokley, I expect you to watch the video to follow and either tell me I'm stupid, or tell everyone you know they are the worst 2 Refs in Kansas. Maybe in the Nation. Steve Allen and Todd Roberts Gave the 126 pound match between Jordan Priddy and Luke Richard away to Jordan Priddy, not once, but three times. I have never called a coach, wrestler or referee out, however I am calling these to jokes out right now. The refs expect the coaches and kids to be respectful and be accountable. It's time for looser refs to be accountable. I must create a YouTube account, the video to follow.

Hey mr perfect if you are so good at everything sign up to officiate. Than you can get the votes to replace them. Sure you will never mess up a call

First off as Beason would say post your name or don't post!
We are at State, Quality Refs are not too much to Ask for. Todd Roberts and Steve Allen have no business on the mat! Ever!

Sorry that was my officiating number. But Mr. Perfect my name is Aaron. Just so you know officials get voted in by coaches and admin. So these officials must be pretty decent.
Going by your name your a pissed off dad cause your boy lost.

The takedown he awarded was about 7 seconds too late. I'm not saying it was or it wasn't a takedown, but Priddy had much more control 7 seconds prior to when he was awarded the takedown.

696. Last year we had an official get 14 votes for regionals and he didnt get a regional. And yet there were officials at regionals that i can 100 percent guarantee that didnt have that many votes by the way every single coach say "who voted for these clowns". The buddy system needs to go. They need to post votes for everyone to see and i bet you will see some officials not working Regionals and state that have been for years since they are part of the buddy system.

Some of the officiating was questionable at best yesterday and I thought some of them were pretty good. The one thing that I couldn't help but notice was that even though there were 2 officials on every mat the 2nd official rarely overturned the call made by the lead official. Granted I did not have as good of view point as the officials and I know officials stick together, but some of the calls appeared obvious they were missed.

Also another thing that needed to be called was unsportsmanlike or coaches misconduct. I seen kids throwing punches refusing to shake hands and throwing headgear off of the mat. Not to mention I seen a coach point in an officials face and poke at his chest and didn't get any type of discipline. The officials kept their cool with the coach, but in my opinion should have gave some type of warning.

Lance

Keep posting and keep talking. I knew that when I created this post I was going to get attacked. My goal to make sure things like this can't happen. These two officials have no business on a mat! Politicians and refs may be voted in because they are popular, however we all know that has little bearing on there ability to do there job correctly.

As I expected, the video hasn't even been posted, and we are already defending the refs! ??????????????????

Keep it up!

So it is all right for you to attack a couple officials but when someone stands up sh for them that is wrong

You can watch the video Open Spaces


Around the 3:55:00 mark.


.

I've never seen a match given away by an official more than the 120 pound semifinal match last year! It was disgraceful at best. 4 points awarded for stalling and a referee that wasn't even involved (not the head ref) in the match stepped in to make a call. LOL

Tom Richards I completely agree you that the buddy system needs to go

I agree. The 3 2 1A was horrible. The only half decent refs there were the women.
The buddy system is not worth it. Waste of time. Officials need to have recertification every 2 weeks. Thats how bad it was this weekend. Awarding back points on roll throughs.

Maybe next year will be better. It sucks I cant post the pictures of the worst refs...oh well.

Make that 2 years in a row!

I was wondering how long it would take for this comment.....

I would have to say that the stalling calls that were made during the match myself personally feel were the right calls. But I also feel there very easily could have been another stalling call that would have put this match into overtime.

The worst thing about this match was not the officiating but the way the coach acted after the match. Being upset and arguing for a call is one thing, but throwing the suit jacket on the floor then going at the official after the offical had left the mat and sat down is crossing the line.

I want to take a bad situation and turn it in to something good. The system cheated a wrestler out of a State Title. With assistance I will have the video posted after lunch.

We need video review at the State Tournaments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to hear every Reason why this is a bad idea from coaches, Refs and parents.

Please, please, please NO video review! It will slow the matches down to a crawl and eliminate conditioning incentives. We already have two officials per mat, will one more set of eyes make a difference? Use video for referee evaluation and education. Get better officials. Anything but video review!

I agree no video review, but rather the 2nd official to be willing to overrule the lead official. And as far as evaluating officials I think that's a good idea. If video review is used it needs to be for flagrant misconduct type situations. As I see a wrestler throw 2 punches and an elbow to the face and never got called. Coaches and fans seen it, but both officials seemed to miss it.

Sportsfan02,
You are going to see that 2 officials failed to get it right!
Your reasons don't outweigh getting it right for the kids!
Fargo and College both use Video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And another offical is going to get it right? Not to mention the stoppages for the calls they did get right. And video review makes those tournaments unwatchable for the typical fan, much like the officiating method for FS/GR. Bad calls happen in every sport, moreso in other sports. Life will never be perfectly fair.

After you watch the video we can continue, I'm certain you will understand my quest for change!

No video review, for reasons stated above. It seems that some officials try to "step it up" at state. The stall calls are quicker (a few I believe should have been called that weren't), and the judgement calls seem different at state. Every official calls those calls a little differently,because, well, they are judgment calls. But at state wrestling, it seems that most of the officials call stalling quicker. In my opinion it is correct, but why not call it the same all year long? Why the inconsistency? To finish, when it's a close match and an official won't call stalling to keep from interfering with the match, they interfere and give the match away by not calling a stall that should be called. That said, the officials have a tough job and have to have thick skin to do their job. I commend them, even the controversial ones. Gotta have officials, and not many young ones learning and filling the pool of refs to choose from.

Video can be found at the following link
https://youtu.be/RIiVtBG46O4

Match is 1 to 1 at the time the video begins, it is at the end of the 3 period. Silver Lake is Red, Riley County is Green.

The Second Clip is overtime.

I've watched the video 5 times. I don't know which kid is which but it is clear if anybody should have been given a takedown in the first clip it was the kid in blue and white who appeared to gain control at end. In the second clip there was no control by anyone and no takedown should have been called. Can someone explain what was actually called.

Priddy was awarded the td in the second clip. Gold singlet. ( This is nothing against either wrestler, just what was called)

MHS77,
The first clip if you watch the ref he awards 2 to the wrestler in gold. The second clip the wrestler in gold gets the win in ot.

I've noticed that the second referee almost never disagrees with first ref so that is no help. Two possibilities to try to get things right in future. 1. Give each coach one video challenge per day and therefore won't slow matches down much. The two refs would watch the video under a 2 minute time period and no input from coaches trying to coax the referee into seeing it their way. 2. Allow video review discretion to refs if requested and one of the refs agree it could be helpful to make right call. Obviously our system makes refs "always right" as nobody can question their judgment, but at least asking them to review a critical call and giving them that right would potentially hold them accountable when they make a questionable call, refuse to review it, and end up being completely wrong as in the videos you have shown. No accountability for refs now but may be in future if they are shown to listen to reason and won't even consult a video.

I guess if we want to do video review then each team only gets a certain amount of reviews in a tournament kind of like world compitetions. It would have to be based on how many wrestlers are representing a team on how many reviews they get. Otherwise some coaches are going to ask for a review every point that is scored and tournaments will never be done

JMO

The first call at 22 seconds seems to be a 2pt takedown then an immediate 2pt reversal, which could have been called either way, it was not wrong though. Video reviews??? This isn't the NFL or Olympic level wrestling.. high school football doesn't even have video reviews. Nothing less than drastic delay would happen from that at every single tournament. Horrible idea whether you put limitations per team or not.. We could always do a required physicals for the officials, that alone will solve more issues than video review. The good ole boy system needs to go as well. There are so many more great officials in Kansas than there are bad, in my opinion. Bottom line, video review is not the answer.

The only Intelligent thing you stated is there are a lot of good Refs, there were really good Refs at this event. Stating that the call could have gone either way clearly indicates you need glasses and video review.
We need to make things better! Video Review is a tool used in 2017!
It’s about the kids!

Several of the Refs at the 321A event stated that any Ref that would not want video review should not be on the Mat. The goal should be to get it right not always be right. The best Ref will make mistakes, this is a tool to help them in those situations.

Guess you can pay for it to dang most schools don't want to support the wrestling anyways let alone camera's to do that

20/20 vision confirmed last month (via. Eye Associates of Wichita). Great place. You can also ask the volunteers if they are ready to be there until 10pm at every tournament. Make room for official budgets as well if tournaments will be 3-4 hours longer than usual, which cool I can always use the extra money.

If you are implying any official who is against video review is because they are afraid of it that is not too intelligent yourself. Every single match now a days is being video taped somewhere, somehow, whether it be by a parent, friend, or managers so they can go back and review them. If someone wanted to, as you have here, anyone could download a YouTube video and criticize someone else because they don't agree with what they did or said.

The reason I'm against it is because my life is already consumed with enough wrestling and I'm not looking to add hundreds of more hours a year because of video review. Trust me, more refs will agree with that whether their the greatest to ever step foot on mat or one of these you speak of.

I love wrestling and I'll be the fist to tell you those tournaments are a LONG DAY even for the parents sitting in the stands eating their popcorn.

Tom
Why don't you put on an officials clinic so we all know how you want it to be called.

Instead of complain about the officail lets complain about the escape your son gave up. Your son left the match to the decision of a human.

There was better was to handle this but your but you choose this way just shows how classy you are.


Aaron Roberts

Ive watched the video and i have to say that priddy was behind the hips had stepped over the leg and had the 2 point takedown. I also saw that richard still had priddys leg but at that point his arm was just trapped there. If you look closely priddy actually has one leg in and one stepped over. The overtime takedown was good. As for regulation priddy had a takedown before the call was made and then richard did have the reversal. I cant fault the refs for the calls that were made in this instance.

Mike Pirl

Thank you Mike thank you. You must go to Eye associates of Wichita as well. Which Dr. is your preferred walk in?

Video review for state only would not be a bad thing. With limitations. Like you could do video it for only the quarters, semis, and finals, as well as give coaches a certain amount they can use through out the tournament. You could give each coach 3 challenges and make them one time uses only. That will make coaches VERY selective about using them. There are lots of ways to make video reviews a viable option for keeping refs honest. IMO that's why a lot of refs will say no to video reviews, because they don't want to admit they made a bad call. I on the other hand would love it! As a ref I want two things: 1)for both the wrestlers to leave the mat without injury and 2) for the ability to make the correct calls during the match for each wrestler so that the correct wrestler will win. If video review will help me achieve that second part then I am all for it.

As for this particular match, I believe the refs made two incorrect calls. First, someone earlier pointed out that in the first clip the SL wrestler scored 2 and the the RC wrestler IMMEDIATELY scored a reversal. That is incorrect call #1. In high school the wrestler must establish control BEYOND REACTION TIME to score a takedown. Therefore I believe the SL kid should not have been awarded a takedown but the RC kid should have. In OT the SL kid was awarded a takedown because it appeared that he gained control of the RC kids hips. The was incorrect call #2. I don't completely fault the main ref for this one because he was only in position to see the SL kid cover the hips. However the assistant ref could have pointed out that the RC wrestler had both arms under the SL wrestler's leg preventing him from gaining control. This is just my opinion from what I saw from the clips posted.

Not the worst calls I have ever seen, but I disagree with both calls. With that said, I had to watch both calls several times to disagree with them. So even though I don't think they were the right calls, I can't beat the officials up over them.

Sorry Tom, but I do agree that Video review is not necessary at the High School level. They don't have video review in any other high school sport, nor should they. Bad calls are made unfortunately and that's part of sports in general.

What's reaction time? Don't say a judgement call because coaches hate hearing that. Reaction time is how long it takes me to say "reaction time" in my head. This post wasn't about the kids, or about a call. It was about trying to humiliate and attack two people who have put in A LOT of time and work for Kansas wrestling. I disagree with you on the first call in regulation. I can see exactly where you're coming from however, and that's why I said that call could have went different ways everywhere.

Aaron,
Thank you for posting your name and I want to point out it is admirable sticking up for your family member.
KsOffical,
Post your Name please.
Noname,
You have a valid point, schools are struggling and we would need to figure out a way to take care of that Burdon,
Keep posting, I want to create change for the kids.

Brady Heincker but that could be easily obtained through my post history if you are that concerned with it.

Well I don't want to focus on belittling anyone that's why I kept my post about video review and my opinions on the video.

If you think the reversal happened IMMEDIATELY after the takedown then there was no control beyond reaction time. Plain and simple. The call could not have gone either way. That would make takedowns a judgement call which they are not. The SL wrestler never met the takedown criteria beyond reaction time and therefore should not have been awarded the takedown. Pretty black and white if you ask me.

BTW it was good seeing you today Brady!

You to always good talking to you! Congrats to your brother on the awesome win yesterday as well!

First of all the first stalling call was total B.S. It came withing seconds of the start of the period and almost instantaneously when the top wrestler dropped to a single leg. She, the daughter of the ref who screwed the same wrestler last year, did not even give the top wrestler a chance to work for a return to the mat. It was almost like a bad joke where Mom and Daughter sat around the dinner table the night before and talked about robbing this poor kid again. I understand the second call where the point was awarded but that should have been the first warning. And then to Warn the opponent for stalling in the third period Who ran the whole time with 46 seconds left and then never over the point was just plain criminal. This was a state championship match let the kids decide it she should have awarded the point and Let It Go in overtime. Who knows who would have won in overtime but at least the wrestlers would have got to decide for themselves.

That's good old Western Kansas officiating towards East Kansas.

If you watch the video real closely it looks like reaction time is exactly what was given, the call then was made, and right after a reversal took place. The wrestlers were in the same position for about a 1 Mississippi count and then the call was made (all calls are clearly made after the points have occurred as the fall occurs BEFORE the whistle), and then right when the points were awarded the reversal took place. We could do this all night.. I would like to add this video does no justice at all because all of the control is pointing the opposite direction and nobody can see from the video viewers POV.

Agreed that another angle or two would be very helpful to the cause. Can anyone help us out?

In the first scoring sequence there was never control by Silver Lake but if you wanted to argue that there was it should have been called way earlier. In my opinion there was not control beyond reaction time. 2 For Riley County. Silver Lake's leg was never in a position of control that didn't leave him still vulnerable and that is why Riley County scores. You can't legitimately call a TD and Reversal in on motion.

They were still scrambling when the two was awarded Silver Lake didn't have control because Riley County was still cradling the leg.

The real problem is the officiating pool. Secondly, knowing that we have a shallow pool we should NOT allow every official to whistle semi and final matches. If a wrestler makes a mistake he loses and is either sent to the backside or is out of the tournament. Officials blow calls and still get treated as equals?? NO WAY! Earn you spot! You are there for the kids. If you are there to be the match or for recognition or because you are trying to be there for X number of years you are there for the wrong reason! This is for the kids who only get four years to compete!

This match was BLOWN. Don't invite these guys back next year.

The wrestler got dinged for stalling for the exact same reason last year in the semis. Bottom wrestler hits a stand up and top wrestler goes to a high crotch from behind and pushes the wrestler toward the edge of the mat in my eyes that is avoiding returning the wrestler of the mat. The top wrestler has proved for 2yrs at the state tournament now that he can take down most people. Why not cut him and take him back down if he struggles with returning them? I 100% agree there probably should have been another stall call at the end to send it to overtime, as the wrestler that was up by 1 appeared to be blocking with his hands and backing up. Should have been decided in overtime.

As I said before though, even though the match was controversial it gave no right for the coach to attack the official in the manner be did. He should have consequences from his school as well as the state.

And your comment about Western Kansas against Eastern is a joke. I believe the lead official lives in Lawrence.

And once again you brought up last year's match in the semis. Yes the official came off of the side of the mat to change the situation, but if you look at the rules she changed it to the right situation as the officials on the mat were incorrect. From what I am hearing from you is. That you are mad because you feel you got screwed in that match last year, due the right position being utilized, but you would have rather screwed the other wrestler with the incorrect starting position.

Of course he got screwed last year..everyone knows it! He got screwed again this year by the referees daughter from last year. The first stall warning was within couple of seconds from the starting position this year. She hit him with it as soon as he cut back for a single leg. She did not give him one second to work for a takedown, NOT ONE SECOND! She was undoubtedly waiting for him to do it so she could ding him! I can post the video too, but it's a waste of my time.

Ask any East Kansas school out there how they feel about Western Ks. officiating towards them... It's not a secret!

How many times have you seen a referee come in from the sideline that was not involved in the match intervene with TWO officials that were assigned to the match??????? I'm guessing NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually saw a guy who wasn't in stripes tell an assistant referee to tell the main referee to wipe a caution he had given because the wrestler jumped due to a whistle from another call. This should never happen. It didn't change the match but we should not have former refs(this particular ref is from eastern Kansas and I disagree with a lot of calls he makes) who are not in stripes interjecting themselves. The main ref saw a caution and the assistant ref can't intervene in that situation either. We don't use the assistant ref correctly IMO.

I am not going to get into Eastern vs Western, as everyone is going to have their own opinions. This thread that we are posting on is making sure officials get the rules right. They got it right last year. Yes it was definitely not something you usually see an official coming onto the mat, but they did get it right. If you want to argue that the call was wrong then this is a mute point, as you don't know the rules. If you want to say they targeted your wrestler because he is from Eastern Kansas is absurd. These officials referee 100's and 100's of matches every year. I am guessing they don't sit in the locker room and say. Hey this kid is from Eastern Kansas or Western Kansas let's screw him. If they do that then they need to be run out of the sport.

I would like to hear from some officials on this thread. Do you officiate differently knowing where the wrestler is from?

You guys seem tough to please out West. No wonder the "good officials" stay away from it.

There are so many good young officials who don't get the time of day simply because they look young and it blocks them out of the good ole boy system. It's all politics. If you kiss enough feet, you're in. No matter what your skill level is, as long as you pay the fee and take the test you're in.


Any one who has actually competed has had a questionable call go against them, it happens anywhere and everywhere.

How about monthly reviews?? That would be something that could be compromised. The officials with the highest ranking reviews at the end of the year get to do the big stage. Boom.

Are you serious? The thought of even thinking that way is blasphemous. We don't wake up in the morning and get ready for the day thinking "how can I screw a kid over today". Hopefully that was sarcasm.

I only had one problem with an official this weekend. Let me get started by saying that im all for a physical match, but when my wrestler get elbowed 4 times in the mouth, punched once in the jaw, and kneed in the hands all in one match and not one single penalty point was given. To say i was irate in an understatement. He busted my kids lip open on the first elbow and the lead and assistant official were both "not in position" every single time another elbow came in. We ended up losing in the UTB. Then after the match the official tells the two wrestlers that they wrestled a great match, a dirty match but still great. So he saw all the dirty action and still refused to call one single penalty point.

Michael I seen that match, and it appeared everyone in the collisum who was watching the match seen the elbows and punches except the officials. I actually posted about it earlier the thread. The bad thing is I seen that same wrestler do some of the same actions later in the tournament, and still not get called on it.

It was very frustrating. Im very proud of my wrestler for not retaliating. Idk if i would of had as much restraint.

I agree that there needs to be some checks and balances in who gets to officiate the big show. And yes it was sarcasm due the fact that Bigpin is accusing his wrestler of getting screwed solely because he is from Eastern Kansas. I asked the question to prove a point that an official does not officiate a match differently based on where the wrestler is from, and if they do they should not be allowed to officiate any longer.

Now that is a much different argument than a questionable call. Our sole purpose out there is to protect the kids. That should not have happened and I apologize that it did.

Back to video review, I really don't see a viable option for it. You would need a camera in each corner to try to get the best viewpoint, but even then it could be tough. What about the other 8-10 officials that are waiting for their turn, on all four corners watching and able to get together to overturn or make a call that could be missed by the officials on the mat. Use them for a challenge of a review. Would they overturn each other? Would they stick together and "protect"? I don't feel any official tries to throw a match. They have to make a split second call, and be willing to defend that call. If other officials saw it differently or had the right angle, they could overturn it. Just a thought. Then again, why not have 10 officials on the mat to watch from every angle.

KsOfficial the problem is that is was the head official.

That is a call that is rarely missed. I have not often witnessed an obvious punch, club to the head, etc. go un-called. In no way am I implying it didn't happen. If it was the head official not calling obvious misconduct then I would recommend informing the VIPs of Kansas wrestling or a board member of KHSAA, because that should not fly. Like I said our sole purpose out there is to protect the kids. It is a rough sport, but there is a clear difference between wrestling with intensity and intentionally trying to cause harm towards an opponent. No matter what the level of competition is.

I agree. Im all for heavy hands and being physical on top but this kid was trying to hurt our wrestler.

There's nothing to argue...Whether it's perceived or real most everyone that's been around Kansas wrestling knows there has always been an East vs. West rift!



I respect your opinion but totally disagree. It's very rare that the second official oversteps the head official in a match, let alone a 3rd official stepping in (unless it the head ref) to restart a triple overtime match in progress is ridiculous to say the least!!

Drives me nuts: Calls different everywhere.

1. Single Legs. Fleeing the Mat.
2. Single Legs. Returning to the Mat.
3. Single Legs. Not crawling up the leg.

1. Kid hits a single leg (Center of circle) (Tree tops it) Kid with leg up hops/dives all the way out of bounds. No fleeing the mat?

2. Kid on bottom hits stand up. Top kid drops to single and pulls kid back to mat (eventually). (How long does he get...) If he is near the crotch how long until its called fleeing the mat? (I've seen it called both ways. Fleeing the mat and Stalling) Top man goes out of bounds....

3. Anywhere on mat. Kid has a single at the ankle and other kid kicks and kicks and drags the kid with he ankle out .... no call. When is it fleeing and when is it stalling?

I saw it happen differently at the 5A/6A State Tournament. It seems its different by style and level. High School, College, Freestyle.

I am not an expert .... so no need to shoot me for discussing. lol

Good point! I will post the video and let you decide if a point should have been awarded in this case.

Below is a link to the stalling call that was made. Keep in mind the the mother of this referee penalized the same wrestler in the semifinals four points for similar reasons.

The penalized wrestler was not ahead in points when the stalling call was made, he was "attempting" to return the opposing wrestler to the mat score points from top. It was obvious and intentional stalling in the 3rd period when the other wrestler was winning and trying to protect his lead on his feet!

Then in the 3rd period the opposing wrestler was leading by 1 point and warned for stalling with just under a minute to go but was never penalized even though the whole crowd screamed for the call.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3DaND2q8DtVdzRUc2dUS05PbTA/view?usp=sharing

All of those are very difficult to call knowing the rules. In a way, I think it happens all too often and officials want to give kids an opportunity, and not ding them the first time it happens. Maybe a change in approach from officials. But then again, if it is called that way, the officials may never hear the end from coaches/fans.

From the video Kid in green gets a reversal. The kid in Yellow hits a stand up. There is approximately 5 seconds before a stall warning is given to the kid in Green for not returning to the mat? (video clock 19/20 seconds to 25 seconds. Kid reshoots at 26 seconds.)

I think that's what happened? I don't know if last year plays into this. However, if I was the coach of the kid who was hit last year. I would have talked to the lead official asking that that referee not be in the match. I would bet that may have solved that part of the angst?

If a kid is making absolutely no attempt to return him to that mat, that is when stalling is called. If we he would immediately went for that re-shot that would show an attempt to return the wrestler, and no stalling call would have been made in that amount of time. There is no time count in that kind of situation it comes down to judgement if the wrestler on top is trying to return him at all. Of course, if he fails to return him so many times then yes that could be called stalling as well, but it will be more than 5 seconds before that stalling call is called.


Stalling is a way to win some times, but not if you have been warned and up 1 point.

Rough ending there she did not hesitate to call it, which the is how it should be called all the time. If stalling was called correctly 24/7 there would not be so much controversy with it.

The problem with calling stalling is if you do it once a certain way you better be calling it that same way all day or you will hear it from everyone. I don't know how she was calling stalling the rest of the day, but to me, that was a good stalling call.

I've only been gone a year, but did Kansas change the way they award State Titles. Win your semifinal and you are awarded a State Title? I thought you had to win your FINALS match to meet that criteria. Joel was in the Nebraska State 126 lb FINAL match. I as a rightfully biased dad thought that a fleeing the mat or stalling point should have been given and taken the match to overtime. It wasn't and the result was a 3-4 loss. I'm not going to sit around complaining, I will pour my heart in to ways to help him overcome situations that he can control to change the outcome. Sunday, following the State Duals this past Saturday, Joel was reffing a local kids tournament. He said he wasn't concerned about coaches or dads throwing fits over possible missed calls. To quote him "Bad calls happen, move on". Any guesses as to where Joel was this morning at 6am? Answer: the weight room. He said that is his main priority to change the results from this past year.
John Ostrom
Burwell, NE

That's the huge issue is that she didn't call it that way all day or even in that match.

She token warned the other kid for stalling on his feet in the 3rd period for protecting his lead and backing out with approximately 45 seconds left in the period but never awarded a point amidst large booing from the crowd!

It's over now and nothing we can do about it. We feel as though he was robbed of a possible State Championship due to inconsistent officiating 2 years in a row!

Moving on!

So I want gonna say anything at first, but some of these comments are absurd. First of all, getting recertified every two weeks as an official is ridiculous. The amount of training we go through every year is quite a bit. I'd like to know personally how many coaches actually open a rulebook every year with all the rule changes that go on. I know several officials personally who ask opinions from other officials after some tight matches whether or not they made the correct call. Nobody is perfect in life, officiating is a very tough job, and mos of the time people don't realize how difficult it is to step into our shoes and make the calls. Some of the spectators and parents don't realize that we as officials volunteer our time every weekend to put back into the sport of wrestling what we've learned throughout our life.

Your school has the full video on facebook not just the piece at the end of the second period you posted. If this was the only bit of wrestling to influence the call I would agree. If you take the whole second period into account I believe this could have been your kids third stalling call. In my opinion, the reason she was so quick and authoritative with it was due to the start of the second period. Every time Johnson would make it to his feet your kid would show no real attempt to return him, followed by dropping to the leg. I do believe there could have been another call against Johnson in the third, but he was very strategic about his mat presence with a re-shot now and then and turning away from the edge so your kid would be the one to go out of bounds first in most instances.

Link to your schools live stream on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/usd247/videos/1336686036390477/

Please Do! and watch how she knowingly and intentionally gave the Norton wrestler a point a millisecond before time ran out in the 2nd period and warned the Norton wrestler in the 3rd period while he continued to stall for way longer than Kester ever did.

Listen to all the boos and the chants of stalling in the third period.

Moral of ANY story where one wrestler is screwed: Don't leave it in the refs hands. Don't let your matches be or get so close that the ref has to interject his/her judgement to decide the match.

Do you know how easy our lives would be if we could make calls just because the crowd yells that you should? Come on now..

Your son should be proud he made it there. That is something to be proud of. Do not dread over what could have been. Congrats on an awesome season!

I think a couple of things are being missed here, for one,the Southeast kid was attempting to return, he was attempting to return the Norton kid to the mat with a single leg or high crotch, when Coach Johnson yelled stalling, less than a second or 2 later, the official awarded a point for stalling to the Norton kid. Secondly, the Norton kid spent the final 30-45 seconds circling away with his arms extended out on the southeast wrestler and butt and feet away to prevent any take down WITHOUT any attempt of offense himself, this is after he too got a caution for stalling, there should have been a point awarded to the Southeast wrestler creating a 4-4 tie, and gone to OT. Now, who knows who would have won, the Norton kid is a great wrestler, so is the Southeast kid, much respect to Coach Johnson but the official was influenced by his coaching. Her and her mother took the decision from the wrestlers hand in back to back years, this shouldn't happen. Once for a kid from Ellis, once from a kid from Norton, both great wrestler's, but the matches should be decided by the kids. That's it, period !

This is not his Dad, this is his Coach. I have helped coach him since he was five years old.

You are right, he should be and is proud. I also know he feels rightfully robbed. He took it like a man and moved on. I've said my peace a am moving on myself!

Thanks

Back to the original topic...
After thinking about it for a couple of days, although our officiating pool is very shallow we still have some higher quality officials at every state tournament. The real culprits for these issues are the head or lead officials who think that we have to be FAIR when assigning matches. The lead official at 321A should have "handicapped" the front side matches (qtrs, semis, and finals) along with blood round and medal matches to put appropriate pairs on the matches. Why would you but the two aforementioned officials together and then follow it up with two of the best officials in the next match???? First off, we need to develop officials and you can do this by putting them on the OUTSIDE while a GOOD official is on the whistle. DO NOT confuse years of experience with ability to officiate. Generally speaking, if you have an official who never wrestled or lets even say never wrestled at state then you are not going to have a very good official (there will be exceptions but they will be rare.) If you wrestled in MS or JV that doesn't mean you understand the movement of a match... plain and simple. NOT EVERY OFFICIAL should workd a semi finals and finals match. THE BEST KIDS IN THE TOURNAMENT DESERVE THE BEST OFFICIALS IN THE TOURNAMENT!!!!! When a wrestler makes a mistake he goes to the backside or home. That should be the same thought process for officials. If we hold them accountable they will work harder. Earn your whistle for the finals, don't just hold your hand out and expect one.

Someone on here mentioned how hard it is to be an official. That is TOTAL BS!!! It is way more political than anything else. You take a test, go to three organized meetings and you are qualified, in KSHSAA's eyes, to be an official. I see Iowa officials working FLK matches from October to the April. Most of our guys are ghosts from March 1 to December 1. Again, we have exceptions. Officials should do it for these reasons in this order. 1. For the kids. 2. Because they love wrestling 3. Because they understand the importance of getting it RIGHT. 4. For compensation.

In closing...We need more former wrestlers to become officials!!!! We need to have outside officials to develop them for the future. We need to have lead officials who are NOT on the mat and who have half a brain about distributing the assignments and a set of balls to tell some of the officials "NO!! You are having a bad weekend, the kids deserve the best and you aren't there this weekend!"

I agree with former wrestlers becoming officials. We see them at kids and middle school tournaments, but rarely see them beyond that. Poor officiating definitely needs discussed. But the majority of the wrestling community looks at these forums, and does it scare young officials off seeing other officials called out? Does it keep them from wanting to progress to the next level for fear of making a mistake? In our digital world, social media can make or break young people.

I won't disagree with you Bass but the real number one enemy of officiating is "Because we have always done it that way!" The "Good Ole Boy" network blocked many, many aspiring officials for many years. The issue that has finally came to a head was caused by this very group of officials not allowing a blend of young and veteran experiences. They thought bringing in one or two a year was adequate. So, so many officials were being overlooked for regionals and state when they were far better than the old guard because of the ridiculous recommendation system.

Like i posted eariler Cokeley. I had an ex wrestler get 14 votes for a regionals and he didnt get one. I know he had more votes than some of the officials that did regionals that year because in the seeding meeting one of the coaches asked who is voting for these officials. Not one person said they did for 2 of the officials that were there. The buddy system needs to go. They need to post the votes!!!

Well said. Coaches could post their votes, so no discrepancy. You would know who was officiating before the tournament. It would expose any corruption within the vote system. Young and talented officials are needed, as it seems the pool continues to age. If the leaders and experienced officials won't allow young ones to step up, basic nature, they will become extinct. I hope it's not as bad as it seems, but not many signs pointing to the contrary.

This official has since quit officiating because of the buddy system shut him out. He did an average of 2 varstiy meets per week and was really becoming a good young official. Sucks to see young ones quit

I started officiating as a freshman in college and only kept my certification for 3 years. Partly due to the fact I started coaching as well, but mainly for the fact that it felt almost impossible to get into the "inner circle". If you didn't know the right person or kiss the right ass you weren't ever going to be more than someone helping to support the association and work kid's tournaments. I know and like several officials from around the state and don't believe any of them to be flawless. That being said I do believe the quality of officiating has deteriorated due to the "good ole boy" system. The officials association has almost become an untouchable entity. I'm tired of watching them walk around puffy chested as if they can't be touched and instantly dinging a coach for any kind of questioning that takes place. In my opinion a fairly decent sized number of them are either to lazy to care or unaware of how to get in the right position to make a lot of calls. I know it's a hard job and calls will be missed, I've been there and done that. I just feel like some of the guys who've been around forever may be a little lax in their ways these days and the young ones are soooo green they shouldn't even be on a JV mat.

Hahha post your name whimp

As a young ref it is tough wanting to get into high school level wrestling as an official. My first year I was assigned HS jv job. I got paid $35 almost a month later. The older refs look down on us for sticking with kids club wrestling. They don't ever want to coach or guide us to becoming a better Offcial.

It really is a huge gap in regards to how much more the kids club officials who are veterans try to keep us moving up and get us jobs compared to the veterans of High School.



What is going to happen when these guys simply cannot go out there any more? There will be no one nearly as experienced at the high school level to take their place because there is simply little to none opportunity to get some experience. Things need to change!!

My opinion is that young Mr. Cokeley, quoted below, has correctly analyzed the calls and the reasons for the errors that were made. The elder Mr. Cokeley,in his posts, has again correctly assessed the serious problems we have with how Kansas recruits, selects, trains, and rewards officials. My proposed solution was to put all the dates in a hat and draw names...no favorites, no hogs, no good old boy system. Everybody gets an equal shot. I've posted my observations, from an official's viewpoint, many times over the years on this forum. As a retired official, I've had time to reflect and haven't changed my views. I'm now free from the ethical restrictions on criticizing other officials, but will refrain from doing so still.

"As for this particular match, I believe the refs made two incorrect calls. First, someone earlier pointed out that in the first clip the SL wrestler scored 2 and the the RC wrestler IMMEDIATELY scored a reversal. That is incorrect call #1. In high school the wrestler must establish control BEYOND REACTION TIME to score a takedown. Therefore I believe the SL kid should not have been awarded a takedown but the RC kid should have. In OT the SL kid was awarded a takedown because it appeared that he gained control of the RC kids hips. The was incorrect call #2. I don't completely fault the main ref for this one because he was only in position to see the SL kid cover the hips. However the assistant ref could have pointed out that the RC wrestler had both arms under the SL wrestler's leg preventing him from gaining control. This is just my opinion from what I saw from the clips posted."