Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts

Ryan Nunamaker's resignation alarm bell for area wrestling | Commentary
Ryan Nunamaker is "a dual meet kind of guy,". (lehighvalleylive.com file photo)
By Brad Wilson | For lehighvalleylive.com
on March 30, 2017 7:00 AM, updated March 31, 2017 12:14 AM
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Ryan Nunamaker’s resignation as Parkland’s wrestling head coach should serve as an alarm bell for those who feel that the team side of the sport stands anywhere near equally with the individual side.

“We’re in this time now where everything is me-me-me, what I can get for myself, what kind of thing are good for me,” he said. “All the time commitment and year-round training are a good opportunity for kids, but I think to be really good as an individual you have to have a team that makes you better.”

For an extremely competitive and driven man such as Nunamaker to walk away from a plum job like Parkland – one of the best posts in the state that just had an alum, Ethan Lizak, in an NCAA Division I final – would take a lot. And while he indicated he’d been thinking about a change and moving on to perhaps some non-wrestling activities, those weren’t the sole reasons he stepped down.

“The fact that we don’t compete against Nazareth and Easton in the regular season is criminal for the fans,” he said. “I miss the classic dual meets and it seems like between our (Eastern Pennsylvania) conference schedule and the emphasis on big tournaments we’re getting further and further away from the great dual meets. When you’re building a program those matches are the highlight of the schedule. That’s why we scheduled Phillipsburg; our kids had never been to The Pit and that’s wrestling is all about. We want to create excitement in the community, intensity, interest and (big dual meets) are the opportunities to look forward to to do that.”

Nunamaker’s not the only one thinking along those lines – Rick Thompson has been for a while – but this is just another alarm going off about the state of the sport.

And it’s an alarm from someone who we should listen to.

Yes, Nunamaker has his detractors. He can be prickly, and doesn't hesitate to show emotion in competition. He can also bluntly speak his mind in ways that annoy people.

But he's also pure Lehigh Valley wrestling.

Nunamaker wrestled for his father, Ray, at Nazareth in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s when the gyms were full for dual meets and the rivalries fierce and lively. But it’s not just nostalgia for glory days.

“In dual meets it takes a whole team to win,” Nunamaker said.

Right there – right there – is why this matters.

If wrestling ever gets to be purely an individual sport, it will, in short order, lose an enormous amount of its fan appeal.

There are a few hard-core fans who will follow the really elite wrestlers and that’s enough for them. But what about the non-elite wrestlers who don’t go to all the freestyle and Greco and national tournaments but who use the sport to help make themselves better young men primed for success in life? Do we not care that a wrestler such as Freedom senior Tommy Bonilla who said the sport was the best thing that ever happened to him? Do we not care for the young men who acquire the toughness, discipline and work ethic required for success in life from being very good dual meet wrestlers?

And remember what people, at least in this area, want to watch. Look at the attendance for “Who’s No. 1’ at Easton – certainly elite wrestlers by the dozens – versus Easton at Phillipsburg. Which drew more? As one longtime wrestling expert and 100 percent dedicated Stateliner fan put it, he wouldn’t go to Who’s No. 1 because he was only interested in Phillipsburg wrestlers.

Lose those people, whether they be in P’burg, Hellertown, Northampton, Belvidere, or Pen Argyl, and the sport will diminish faster than Frosty the Snowman on an Amazon River cruise.

Nunamaker made some other good points. The national-level individual tournaments, which he recognized were critical for the development of top-shelf athletes, are distant from the local fan base. “We used to go to just two tournaments, not that far away like Williamsport or Bethlehem Catholic, and not that big, 16 teams,” he said. “Now, the national tournaments have tremendous talent but they are far away and much bigger.”

Nazareth coach Dave Crowell and others have been advocating a two-tournament limit to the season, and there may be increasing support for such a proposition.

Nunamaker also noted the enormous time burdens being placed on people in the sport.

“The time commitment is incredible,” he said. “A simple home dual meet is five hours. Now in the EPC we wrestle Wednesdays and Thursdays to free up Saturdays for tournaments, but that’s two school nights back-to-back and sometimes there’s an hour of travel.”

Not to mention that Saturday night matches were aces in prime time for fans, and that so many of the EPC duals are worthless – again, none of it good for the sport.

Nunamaker realizes he may be a man of the past.

“The big tournaments are great for the kids and the competition is great but the time commitment is enormous,” he said. “I am more a dual meet guy and it’s important to have good duals. We don’t have many any longer. I think without the good duals our support in the community will be greatly impacted.”

He’s exactly right – and we should listen, because wrestling can’t lose too many Grade-A competitors such as Ryan Nunamaker and continue to prosper. Maybe it’s time we start listening -- now.

Themat.com has a discussion under the college section
"Is Wrestling Doomed?" Pay attention to the advice being offered.


gowrestle's Photogowrestle
31 Mar 2017
Participation survey shows 6000 plus less wrestlers on high school teams. Sport is looking at a 10 year downward trend. If this continues, wrestling as it exists today will end.

Amen to what Coach Nunamaker and Coach Crowell are sharing about the importance of DUALS in building this sport!!

The sport can clearly be divided into:
15% - great and elite level wrestlers
65% - average and good wrestlers
20% - novice

Our 15% is better than they ever have been. We spend more money and more energy on the 15% as well. More than ever before. Break down the USA Wrestling State Budget to see that first hand.

Our numbers are declining in the 65% and 20% groups at the Kid's, Middle School and High School Levels.

"Sometimes kids in the bottom 2 tiers NEED the sport of Wrestling more than Wrestling needs them!" Coach Doug Vander Linden 2014

More to come on this topic in a later post.....

Respectfully,
Doug Vander Linden
Burlington Wrestling

I'm glad somebody gets it!

More people get it than you think - and the ones that do not understand it need to be educated in a big way before the cookie jar is empty.

Bump

Doug speaks the truth. . .about 90% of the time a kid needs wrestling a heck of a lot more than wrestling needs the kid.

Good post Coach Vander Linden, great point for all of us to keep in mind

One thing that has always confounded me about our sport is that we have many, many that love the sport. All who read and post on here obviously have a passion for the sport.

I am confused to why every time there is an attack on our sport we all don't unify and look how to fix it. Instead we attack within and further damage our sport.

I see lots of alledged problems pointed out but very, very few solutions.

For example, lets look at all of the reasons OUTSIDE of wrestling that could be probable causes to participation numbers instead of looking within. What changed?

Just a few years ago KSHSAA allowed football coaches to have contact on the Tuesday after Memorial Day. This basically made football a six, contiguous month sport. Then they expanded the playoffs to include EVERYONE.

Go look at the numbers before and after this change in Kansas. I heard from so many kids "I NEED A BREAK BECAUSE FOOTBALL SEASON WAS SO LONG" in the past few years. Football coaches hold our kids hostage and drain them of the desire to continue working hard for three and half more months. They threaten the athletes with playing time so that they won't miss 6am summer workouts and contact camps in the hottest months of the year. More and more kids are lost to concussions caused by football and the excessive practices associated with the search for a title. Their numbers are plummeting too but nothing is changing for the better.

Why can't we all look outside of wrestling for causes as well? Why can't we offer solutions instead of pointing figures at each other?

I am not saying we shouldn't change within as clearly you must change to survive. Suggest changes that are positive to wrestling as a whole.

Lastly...Today's world is all about everyone "feeling" good. I ask you this If all of our kids focus on winning and we are to make them all feel like winners all of the time, how are they supposed to learn how to deal with the inevitable defeats they will experience in life?

My 2 cents:

1. I truly miss dual meets. In the good old days out west we wrestled a lot more duals and they were just flat out more fun. Listening to my athletes talk- most of whom begin wrestling in middle school (if I'm lucky) or in high school (most regularly)- they love duals and dual tournaments. Even my 2 state finalists 2 seasons ago that wrestled for a very long time at a high level around the nation preferred the dual meet format. They all enjoy the team aspect of it more.

2. I was blown away by these big time Pennsylvania coaches advocating for a 2 tournament limit to the season. While I personally think that is extreme, I do think reducing the number of tournaments during the season- and giving kids, families, and friends some weekends together and coaches some weekends to be with their families would be a positive step for the sport. I think this would increase the retention of athletes and coaches.

3. Bringing fans to competitions is an important part of growing the sport. I could care less if we wrestle in front of anyone, but the kids care. They see the crowds for other sports like baseball, basketball, and football and compare those with the crowds for wrestling, swimming, cross country, track, golf, etc. What is more important? If a kid is going to choose where to invest their limited time and energy what should they choose? I have kids that quit wrestling that would probably end up being varsity wrestlers to focus on other sports that they will likely never be a starter in. This has at least something to do with the social importance we place on these different sports. So the question is- how do we bring fans? I think there are a couple of changes that NEED to be made to make the sport more appealing to the general public.

a. College out of bounds rules- that are actually called like college out of bounds rules are written. It is so much more exciting to see wrestling continuing.

b. Increase consistency of stalling calls, and call them early and often. High school wrestling, except at the highest levels, is often a very slow paced/boring sport because kids are not working to score like they should. Low scoring does not mean boring, but kids standing and staring at eachother is incredibly boring.

c. Increase number of dual meets, focusing on single duals with home/home scheduling like other TEAM sports. This provides athletes a chance to compete at home, where possibly their friends will come watch and support them. It is very unlikely that many will travel on a saturday to sit in a gym all day to watch their buddies wrestle 3-4 times over 8+ hours.

d. Increase the IMPORTANCE of duals. Right now the dual meets we wrestle are purely for bragging rights. While most of us are uber competitive and we don't need any more motivation to compete other than the chance to compete- the fans we are trying to attract are not us. In the scheme of things who really cares if Blue Valley High School beats (insert what ever school here) except for the coaches/athletes/parents of those teams? I proposed 3 years ago for the EKL to do away with the individual league tournament at the end of the year and instead replace the tournament with a season long dual series. The dual placing results would be used to determine the league champions- just like football games, basketball games, and baseball games. This means that there are regularly scheduled duals during the season, teams will wrestle at home numerous times, and the dual results carry an importance for the school as a whole.

Unfortunately this was not supported by all the league schools. Here is a link to the proposal if anyone is interested in how it would work: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5iqu3ecd579560/EKL%20DUAL%20League%20Championship%20Proposal.pdf?dl=0

Maybe that was more than 2 cents worth.

Honestly, the number one enemy of ALL sports is the obsession with WINNING instead of enjoying the thrill and intensity of competition. It is more or a parenting problem and possibly an issue with our culture today.

Kale,

Those are really good thoughts and ideas. I agree that single dual meets are needed and increase the popularity of the sport. Our program is an example that this model can work. I am not just talking about performance but for change in dynamic at our school. Ever since we added more single duals (and we dropped a tourney to do it), Wrestling has became a main stream sport at our school. Because of this, we have been getting more athletes out at the middle school level and it is "cool" to do. Consequently - we are a better team. Good stuff.

How do you get more duals??? Simple Convert four or five of the competition points to DUAL ONLY can only be used Mon - Thur after school for one match duals. Someone propose it. It is a no brainer. Then all of you HS coaches need to quit trying to outsmart each other and wrestle your line up so that the best wrestle the best. It has been my experience that dual strategy thwarts the crowd interest.

And building on that...in Missouri on Mondays-Thursdays if they hold a "dual", they can include multiple teams to compete against and only spend 1 competition "point"...so a double or quad it only costs them 1(to encourage duals and maximize teams travelling). Now to be fair, they also figure schedule requirements differently too(ie: allowing 9 duals/6 tournaments or 10/5 instead of our "points" system) but still it's an interesting twist.

Will,

Are you talking about when coaches bump around guys to avoid tough kids? If so - I would definitely agree with you. Marquee match-ups are fun for the fans.

Absolutely! Or not sending anyone out to wrestle a stud. Fans come to see a match not just to see a great wrestler get their hand raised.

I think that gets too complicated. If you wrestle more than one dual you are going to have to burn more than one point. Keep it simple. Four points for M-Th single match duals. These competitions have a start time, and end in the same or less time it takes to play a basketball game, fan friendly!! 26 points to use in multiple team dual formats, one day, and two day tournaments. You can still do 6 two day, two weigh events. That would be 24 points that could get you up to 60 matches, by rule.

Forget the point system all together...in Missouri just can't have 50 matches prior to regionals.

That is too hard to manage my friend...I like the point system WAY better.

The topic has more to do with how many years or when a wrestler starts and finishes competing. It was not a a discussion if a wrestler should be allowed to wrestle 30,
40, 100 matches a year during Folkstyle season.

If they wrestle from 6 years olds to 12 years old,
12 years old to 18 years old 6-16, 8-18, 10-20 etc

What years or age do we need to do a better job of introducing new wrestlers in the sport and keep them engaged.

One thing I always thought was interesting, and could possibly hurt participation numbers, is that there are no "rec leagues or tournaments" in Kansas.

I am defiantly not bashing on USA Wrestling, in any sense of the word, as they do what they have to do for their regulations and do great things for many kids. The things they do for the kids and what they do with Team Kansas are awesome. A lot of states don't have anything like Team Kansas and the opportunities for our kids that participate in Team Kansas stuff are extremely valuable.

However, all tournaments in our state seem to be USA Wrestling Sanctioned Tournaments. I'm mainly talking about your novice type tournaments. Thus parents have to register their kid in advance, weigh in the day before to make a weight, be placed in a weight division, buy a USA card, etc.. I know in Iowa, where I grew up, there are a lot of tournaments that aren't sanctioned by a governing body (AAU there). You would just show up the day of, register, weigh in, and then would be grouped in a 4 man round robin with whoever weighed around your weight. There were no weight classes or anything needed to do ahead of time. I know now there are many tournaments available like this still.

In Iow, If you are a good wrestler or wanted to take things more seriously, you would get an AAU card and attend the AAU sanctioned tournaments. I know we have novice tournaments in KS but those parents still have to do quite a bit of front work to get in to those. I am truly not bashing USA tournaments, as they are good for many kids, but I think that may be a part of the lower retention rates at our younger age groups. I know retention rate is a nation wide problem but you do have to make a decent commitment to compete in our current system, regardless of experience level. The commitment I'm talking about isn't for the kids but rather the commitment the parents have to make. I'm really not saying I have an answer or this is what we need to do, but rather just noticing a difference in systems. Many of my friends growing up wrestled in a couple small local tournaments a year while putting in a month of practice. In middle school those friends decided to get AAU cards because they wanted to be more serious and ended up being High State Placers in high school. I guess my question is - has there ever been these local non-sanctioned tournaments before in Kansas or has it always been only sanctioned tournaments? I am not looking for a debate - I'm just fairly new to Kansas and really just educating myself on our State's history and youth setup- as I'm sure there is a good reason why it's setup the way it is.

Lars,

In one word I can answer this LIABILITY...

How would you practice or compete in today's world without insurance coverage?

Iowa is now a strong USA state (Mark Reiland is their state leader) now was well. Kansas has made strides in allowing flexibility in weight movements, remote weigh ins, and deadlines to enter but space requirements are also an issue. Planning, etc. The competition for athletes at a young age is probably the bigger issue. Specialization seems to be gaining momentum at a lower and lower age. They want you in the batting cages in January as a 10 year old these days and football seasons for some elementary kids consists of 20 plus games with practice starting in the middle of summer and continuing until Thanksgiving. One thing I can tell you is that the world changes every day at a faster and faster pace. You either adapt to the changes or fail!

Thanks for the info Will. That makes sense. The liability of it was the first thought I had in regards to those tournaments.

"Football coaches hold our kids hostage and drain them of the desire to continue working hard for three and half more months. They threaten the athletes with playing time so that they won't miss 6am summer workouts and contact camps in the hottest months of the year. Their numbers are plummeting too but nothing is changing for the better."

I agree with Mr. Cokeley...and I am open to recruiting suggestions. I want solutions.

My numbers have plummeted in just five years...it has been a real struggle. I am saddened to see what is happening.

I am fighting the mentality to specialize and it is completely robbing my kids of time. When I try to bring it up, I am dismissed as being selfish. Darn right I am selfish...selfish of my sport, my athletes, our tradition.

Peter Sierant

This suggestion and whether it will work has a lot to do with your athletic department culture and the football coaches.

A lot of what has worked for me is building positive relationships with the other coaches in my building, administration, and general student population. This takes a little while and won't see the change until a few years down the road. Little things like talking to the football coach about his games and athletes. Being really interested in seeing them succeed. I also send him many articles about how wrestling helps football and give him examples of how it does. This goes with every coach of every sport. We've just worked hard to make wrestling a "top shelf sport" in the school and for it to be viewed as a main sport like Basketball or Football is viewed. This has helped tremendously and at least half of our wrestlers play football in the fall. The freshman class is a big group to get a hold of. We start the year with 70 kids and I think what I explained earlier is a big reason why. It wasn't always like this in Dodge. I know the year before I took over the team ended with less than 20 wrestlers, maybe even less than 15. It takes some work and you have to butter up some people but it is worth it.

Like I said - it depends on your school culture and the people you have to work with as well.

Wrestling is a character builder and conditions the bodies of young men (and women) and teaches them discipline. It also allows anyone of any weight or height to participate so it gives an opportunity to those who would not otherwise be able to participate in a sport. Those were important considerations in 1950 but not so much today. Society has changed and a sport that requires 100% effort for 6 minutes followed by 2 hours of down time just doesn't have the allure it once had in a slower paced society. Its simply a different time and kids, for the most part, don't have any real incentive to be a sportsman. Having the most "friends" on Facebook is more important than having the most medals on the dresser. I love the sport, but I have to acknowledge that the crowds and participate both have waned over the past twenty years. Keeping it viable in the future, much less bringing its popularity back, is about as likely as reviving the passenger pigeon.

Why don't we start with the simple things first.
1. Singlets
Many kids now days, especially the bigger ones, do not like singlets. I personally hate the compression t-shirt and shorts look out there but there are MANY kids who won't wrestle because of the attire. Start showing out alternatives to the singlet to make kids more comfortable.

2. Interfering with other sports interest/weight cutting
Most parents and students think that every kid in wrestling HAS to cut weight. We all know that while cutting excess weight is almost always beneficial it is not a HAVE to. Educate athletes and ESPECIALLY parents on the rules that keep weight loss safe in modern wrestling. Also some kids want to lift and bulk up for football etc.. This is ok, you can lift and eat during wrestling. If you eat truly healthy during the season while practicing you will develop a lean body mass and still maintain size while getting stronger, more flexible, and have better endurance. Also you HAVE to involve other coaches. I preach to football coaches the Explosion, footwork, coordination, and hand fighting wrestles develop that translates over from wrestling to football. Its most notable in big guys, wrestling produces better athletes that become better football players. Especially on the line and defensive side of the ball. It also makes kids tougher. One way we brought this to the attention of our football coach was by having him be a guest coach for a duel and a whole week of practice. He came away thinking of which guys he thought he needed to direct to wrestling the next season INSTEAD of powerlifting. We all know how huge that is.

3. Gain notoriety
Something that we as a community struggle with is displaying wrestling outside of our "group" or other wrestlers. PROMOTE, PROMOTE, PROMOTE. Go door to door inviting people to meets, camps for kids, fundraisers etc.. Tell people what its good for i.e. going to college, building work ethic, character, discipline, health, staying out of trouble on the weekends and after school, all the things good about wrestling that is good for someone's kids. Talk to kids about how it can help them in other sports, talk to an aspiring MMA fighter about how wrestling is the best foundation for the sport. PIMP THE SPORT OUT!!! Go out and be seen in the public, community service etc.. We have the most dedicated coaches and fans. But we have to go out and about and really push.

4. More offseason opportunities
One draw back of wrestling is generally there are no pick up games of wrestling. I totally agree with having these round robin tourneys where you just kind of show up. Have some relaxed folk style tournaments during the offseason. Not another Fargo but something fun, maybe play with the rules a bit.

I think these are all achievable things within the next couple years and I think with the growth of women's wrestling I think we will be ok. But we have to work at it!!