321a State Breakdown by Regional

Just a small breakdown of the regionals. We definitely need a push for the super regionals, but not regionals that are split East/West. There were multiple wrestlers that were left home that could of competed for a medal this weekend. I know that most people are gonna to say they dont have the school funds needed for travel. Then fundraise for it. Something has to change. This is getting kind of ridiculous.
(Also these stats are not 100% accurate due to percentage round ups. And I didnt want to do the math on the percentages also)

Norton

6 top 15 teams (40%)
32/84 placers (38%)
12/28 finalists (42.8%)
7/14 champions (50%)

Russell

6 top 15 teams (40%)
26/84 placers (30.9%)
8/28 finalists (28.5%)
4/14 champions (28.5%)

Council Grove

3 top 15 teams (20%)
16/84 placers (19%)
5/28 finalists (17.8%)
3/14 champions (21.4%)

Eureka Regional

0 top 15 teams (0%)
10/84 placers (11.9%)
3/28 finalists (10.7%)
0/14 champions (0%)

Coach, On a recheck, I found that there were 7 finalists from the council Grove regional and only 1 from the Eureka regional. But case in point still stands, some parity across the Regional's needs to be worked out.. We out here have lived with this since before time. Another stat is that 14 regional champions did not place in the tournament{ Only 1 from the Norton regional.} The percentages have gotten better for the Eastern side over time but there was a time not to many years ago that over 75% of all state team and individual champions and placers came from the two west regional's and of that over 75%- over 75% were from the far west regional. I am happy to see the competition on the eastern side elevate. Of course there are many factors that attribute to the rise, more off season opportunities within very short driving distances helps a lot. But one that I think is big, is the influx of western Ks wrestlers and people with western Ks wrestling background that have taken up residence on the eastern side and work as club coaches, Junior high coaches and High School coaches. I have seen this for years.
And if you give your figures one more look, you will see that 75% Placer and Champion stat for the two west regional's that was mentioned above.

Thanks Coach Malay for your passion for our sport!!

Interesting. What would be your suggestion on how to split up the super regionals?

Also, sort of a hypothetical question here, but say a team can't come up with the necessary funding (even after fundraisers) needed to travel for one of the super regional locations, how would that get addressed?

I do think this is an interesting topic of discussion.

I'm working on that now. I'm trying to have a list of cost and proposed sights for a super regional. There is a group of coaches in the NW corner of the state that are wanting to get together and work on a proposal to bring to the KSHSAA board.

Nebraska keeps 4 Regionals but they seed the teams based off of the prior years results in an attempt to separate the top teams. I have heard mixed results.

This is the same story every year. NW KS almost always has the majority of placers. Never say never but I would be shocked at this to pass. Get better or move to Wellsville, KS 😂. 15-40 miles for all the jobs you can want.

I like the idea of a super regional, but how many towns in Western Kansas can support that many teams and fans. Southeast of Saline can easily pull it off, but we have 3 gyms and Salina is right next door to us for hotel and food. I don't know if Western Kansas towns can pull it off. I understand that some of them that are an hour away would go back home and not spend the night, but alot of them will have too. That is my concern.
Chuck

Going to a super regioal format would probably eliminate it being hosted in most 1A, 2A or 3A high school communities due to lack of motels and food services.

West Super: Dodge City, Garden City or Hays

East Super: Salina, Manhattan or Topeka

OR

North Super: Hays or Salina

South Super: Wichita or Hutchinson

Colby can host one every time we are 3A!

Maybe. . .

Does it really matter that Eureka has such a weak regional? It would be nice to have more regional balance, does it really affect the state tournament? My point is, since you have wrestle backs, 99% of the time the top wrestlers are going to sort them selves out and place in the correct spot, even if you have unbalance in regionals.. Yea some guys get a easier draw by drawing the weak regional, but at least by 2nd round they're wrestling somebody from a tougher regional. Ok, so a handful of guys don't qualify for state and are very likely are better than the guy in the Eureka regional. So, but these are going to be your bubble guys anyway and rarely have an affect on placing. Lets face it, its not that big of an achievement to just to qualify for the state tournament in Kansas. That goes for all classes. Kansas is a low population state with a large amount of classes, kind of watered down. Most of the 321A brackets are also riddled with byes and its not like an elite or even a decent deserving wrestler is going to get left out.

Ummm... not true at all. Come to a western regional and I guarantee there are state placers every single year that dont qualify. We had a kid 2 years in a row that had 30 wins and didnt qualify. Then the next week we turn around and all 4 qualifiers are in the semis at the state tournament from our regional. You want to complain about watered down brackets but then say that it doesnt matter if one regional is weak. It absolutely does. I can think of 5 kids off the top of my head that could of made noise at the state tournament but didnt even qualify because of their regional. With super regionals the best 16 kids will be at the state tournament. Not the best 13 or 12 and 5 that qualified because they made weight. And to say it isnt an achievement to qualify is a slap in the face to every kid that busted there butt for a full season. Everytime you toe that line it is an awesome thing.

I still doesn't think it justifies to go to a big regional just for the sake a couple kids don't get to qualify because they have a tough regional. Im sure once in a blue moon, you get the kid that might have a shot placing but four guys are better in the regional. But it just really that big of deal. I think you missed the point on watered down. You have four classes in Kansas, so why do they even place 5th and 6th. Aren't they giving enough awards out already. Just because some kid could of got 5th or 6th is a weak argument.

30 wins means something, but what's the strength of schedule? Doenst mean a kids that great, I always see kids with big records, not doing that much. Just my point, just qualifying for state is just isn't that big a deal. I guess its perspective. There's a high percentage of kids that qualify in Kansas. There's not much of a bar to differentiate.

I don't like the idea of the super regionals for 321A. I have seen plenty of kids from the East side stay home also. Its part of the sport. There are some things in this sport you can not control. As far as placing 5th and 6th those placements are just as important. Not sure why the knock on 5th and 6th placers.


Josh Parker

I have been an advocate for this since 5a and 6a went to it, I have now experienced the girls do it across all classes and I am now even more in favor of it.
The misconception is that it benefits part of the state and not another part, which is untrue. I firmly believe that it would not matter how you divide the state just get half of the schools in each regional and take top 8. Less chance of anyone that has the potential of winning a state medal not making the tournament but not guaranteed, also splits up the state bracket so more likely higher caliber matches happen in later rounds. Plus I think 2 qualifying tournaments will add another event that could be show cased for these young athletes that only get 4 years to be high school wrestlers and for the majority their careers are at an end then.
Mike Porsch

I would be shocked if a single coach at that Norton Regional is not in favor of super regionals!! They get to experience the reason 321A needs them every year!!

I really want to say quite a bit about it not being a big achievement to qualify for the State tournament. I will just say that it is a pretty stupid statement to make and let you figure out why. You being a Wrestlin Scholar, it shouln't take you very long to figure out, or maybe it will.

I know things get a little insulated in Kansas and the perspective of what a state qualifier is totally different depending what part of the country you're in. Placing in regionals is great, but its still relatively easily to place in the regionals compared to a majority of the states. Kansas is a low population state 2.9MM people but still has 4 classes. Based on population and number of schools, its relatively easy to qualify for state. Maybe a little tougher than Nebraska, Montana, Alabama, Wyoming or Idaho, but still the national perception of the Kansas State qualifier is that's it pretty easy. I know in the past you've had guys just weigh in and qualify due to the number of forfeits in the bracket.

Just for perspective, think of all your guys that qualified in 321A or 224 wrestlers. If these same wrestlers were in Pennsylvania, California, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, New York, less than 10% of the Kansas guys would qualify in those states. Probably 15-20 321A Kansas wrestlers would make it to their state tournament and maybe 5-7 would place.

Its statistical numbers, I've been around these Eastern states and qualifying for these tournaments is a bear. College coaches respect the fact if you qualified in these states, in Kansas means very little to a college coach. Combine the higher level of wrestling and the limited number of spots due to not being watered down with multiple classes. An Indiana or California state qualifier would get a college coaches attention.

Just compare Indiana which has one class. 315 schools with wrestling 224 spots to qualify or roughly 5% wrestlers qualify. Compare to Kansas 220 schools with 896 qualifiers or qualifiying rate or more than 29% of potential wrestlers qualify. Add the high number of forfeits, that number is closer to 40%.

Not disrespecting, but it just funny that I see people complaining about a kid not qualifying for state, but they don't understand how low of a bar qualifying for state is.

Probably good to offend somebody, people need to get on board and be enthusiastic about wrestling.

I really don't care what happens in any other class or state. I only care about 321a in Kansas. Now with that being said I don't tell my guys that might be below average and probably not varsity on another team to cut weight, sweat and bleed during practice to not care about making it to State. The number one goal of every wrestler should be to qualify for State, if that is not the goal, then the bar is not set high enough. I had two kids that had the goal of being in the State finals, both made it. The other kids on our team did not qualify. So by your standards the kids on my team that didn't qualify suck, because it is so easy to qualify in 321a in the state of Kansas. I don't care how my kids make it, I just want them there. Maybe they win a match and next year they have more confidence or they do more over the summer to make it back or maybe they talk a kid into coming out next year. I don't care what a college coach thinks about my kid if he qualifies, I care what my kid thinks, his parents and our team. When you are at a small Kansas school, you have to find things to build up your kids and to have other kids join the team. Qualifying for State is something I push to all of them. So quit comparing us to the other classes and to other states. Go coach a 321a team and learn what it's like to coach a team with a dozen kids or less. Maybe then you'd quit saying that qualifying for 321a State is not a big achievement, because it really is.

I understand your perspective of only focusing on the 321A in Kansas. But that's typical of Kansas to be so insulated, its so fragmented and flawed by having multiple locations for state tournaments. I don't think its a bad idea to look around and see what's going on. It might improve the whole situation in Kansas. There's a few more big colleges with wrestling back East which gives a little more priority to the college coach.

I also can empathize for the small school plight in wrestling. Its difficult all across the country. Its a constant struggle to recruit and retain good athletes. My wife teaches at the smallest enrollment school that has wrestling in Indiana. They are up and down and generally have around 10 to 12 wrestlers. They had there 1st state qualifier a couple of years ago in the history of the school. Their goal is to place in sectional and qualify for regional every year and then a few have made Semi-State, but one little guy qualified to state. That's typical for the most small schools and they have an ongoing debate if the One class system is discouraging to the success of small schools. You would be surprised how many of the small schools really enjoy competing against the big schools and they relish the moment when they can pull an upset. My wife's school has 250 enrollment and they compete a school in Indianapolis that has over 5000 kids.

For the unsanctioned dual team state, the coaches association does class the teams. The bottom class is made up of the smallest 95 schools in the state. Of those 92 schools, they only had 22 kids qualify for state the state tournament. You can see how difficult it is. Just perspective.

The more I read your post on this forum the more I am convinced, you are not into wrestling for the right reasons. You appear to have an agenda of "look at me" "I can look up a few numbers and belittle teenagers and schools". You sir are one of the problems when it comes to killing our sport. Why don't you try a different approach and promote the sport and maybe schools like your wife's school would have more than 10-12 Wrestlers on the team. I know of 321a schools that have enrollment less that 250 that have more than. 10 wrestlers. So maybe you need to look in your own back yard and promote the sport instead of bashing kids accomplishments, this may in fact increase wrestling numbers in your wife's school.