A Catholic Dynasty?

Hats off to the Catholic schools! Catholic schools, Aquinas and Bishop Carrol, are 6A and 5A team state champions! Proving once and for all that Catholics make better wrestlers. Which poses the age old question, is it genetic or is it the strict and disciplined environment from which they come? Hmmmm...well, congratulations. veni vidi vici.

While Catholics have truly proved their mettle this year, I would not yet call them a dynasty. I don't think any religious denomination can hold a candle to the Mormons. After all, the founder of their religion was a wrestler. I would bet that Joseph Smith could tech-fall ol' JC in the second period. That is, unless, JC changed the water in Joseph's water bottle to wine before the match.

Hey, even as a catholic, I have got to hand it to the moromons. Any ugly dude who can convince 5 women to marry him has got a franchise going...

Plus the only undefeated collegiate wrestler was Mormon.
If I have a son, I may raise him Mormon so he will kick everyone's tail on the mat!

Come on how many championships have the 2 won combined, now bishop carrol is always pretty good but who beats them 98% of the time enough said dynasty I wish ark city could recruit that would be scary.

That's like Peter raising Chris as a Jew so he would be successful and good at math...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the last (folkstyle) high school national champion from Kansas was Scott Coleman--a mormon. All 95 kids in that family placed at state (excluding Dave, who went on to become a ballerina). Needless to say, no more research needs to be done on this topic, as this one case proves my theory.

Next to Mormons, a religion where two families could probably make up an entire team, I'd say those of us at Peace Lutheran (both Hat Town and Saint Francis) are the 2nd most dominant religion. And we have delicious grape juice. So we win.

acbulldog - How do you know that they recruit? Just wondering/

Um, because all private schools recruit. Duh.

Yeah but he couldn't wrestle on Saturdays!

Man, you guys are crazy! but definitely entertaining.

Coach Peterman

acbulldog, I think that 98% of the time is a bit of an exaggeration. Lets just look at this year for example: Perry Tournament, Carroll beats the Ark, Newton, Carroll beats the Ark, State, Carroll beats the Ark, Derby, the Ark beats Carroll, Regionals, the Ark beats Carroll. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that’s Bishop Carroll 3, Ark City 2, or an Ark City winning % of 40%. Great rivalry, glad to wrestle you guys to make each team just that much tougher come state time, but please lets try and keep things in perspective. Yes Ark City has the history and tradition over Bishop Carroll, I'm not going to argue that one bit, but recent history has shown a darn good battle between the schools and I for one would like to see that continue.

LancerM & acbulldog, several questions to you both are, you seem very sure that ALL Catholic schools recruit. When you say ALL Catholic schools, do you mean to say ALL private schools, as I am sure that there are other private, NON-Catholic schools out there as well? I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing here. Next question is that you both seem very sure that ALL Catholic schools recruit. Do you have any proof of this accusation? Do you have any names of athletes that have been recruited by Catholic schools? I was a student of Bishop Carroll as well as a coach at this school and I have never known or heard of any student being recruited or given preferential treatment due to his or her athletic ability. I do know that any student wishing to attend Bishop Carroll must be in good standing with their parish before even being considered for any openings at the school. As Coach Finkeldei pointed out in another post, there are currently only 3 non-Catholic students in attendance at Bishop Carroll and that is due to family relations that work at the school. Granted, we are not restricted by the public school zones that determine which public school a student will attend, but we are forced to follow the same recruiting rules and regulations as any other school.

Catholic School Dynasty? I don't think you can call it a dynasty just yet, maybe after another 10 years or so of success. 2 titles in 4 years doesn't quite constitute a dynasty in my books.

Oh, and LancerM, congrats on the state title.

didn't the news say the BTK was from Peace Lutheran?

Yes BTK like Prant Garker is one of those ELCA lefties

Im not talking about one year im talking about the whole rest of the time when bishop carrol never beat us so you can take there three times and put it against 200 now come on think before you talk bumbo. jean grosso did he always live in whichita? nope

Parochial (Catholic Schools) have a natural advantage and should be one of the top ranked teams. They can pull quality kids from a larger area (away from private schools). In my opinion, Carrol and Aquinas have a huge advantage which they haven't capitalized on until recently. These schools don't need to recruit, even though it occassionaly happens, but never proven.

Look at the top 50 national teams. Well over half of them are Catholic or private. I bet a majority of the wrestlers on these teams aren't catholic.

If Carrol and Aquinas could put together a few more championships, their success will create momentum to build a long lasting dynasty. A lot of good kids in Wichita and Kansas City would love to be on a perennial state champion team than a mediocre pubic school and will transfer or start there. Thats what you call legal or natural recruiting. Watch out public schools.

The Scholar

acbulldog, like I said, i'm not going to argue about the history and tradition of Ark City. When you take in the past 20 years, yes Ark City has had much more success than Bishop Carroll. Over the past 4-5 years, it has been very close competition. So, I'm not going to debate which team is better. We won it this year, Turner won it last year, Ark City won it the year before that, Bishop Carroll won it the year before that.... We are all very competitive teams. I personally enjoy the competition that we all give to each other year in and year out and I would like to keep it that way.

As for Pat Giangrosso, no he did not always live in Wichita. If you want to use Pat as an example of Bishop Carroll recruiting away from other schools, please feel free. I think that you will find it hard to show that Bishop Carroll recruited Pat away from the school he was supposed to attend in Pennsylvania. That's a heckuva commute just to wrestle. And from what I understand, his father took a job after Pat graduated in Winfield to coach football. I could be mistaken on that. I do remember asking Pat if his brother was going to wrestle for Carroll when he came to school there. We were told that he would not be attending Carroll because the family was moving due to a job change in the family.

Oh, and its Jumbo, no need for name calling.

Nice theory but it doesn't work for Topeka Hayden in wrestling. Football on the other hand...

Hey Gutwrench, you know I love my Saints, but just so you know, there are a few boys on that State Championship Team who are NOT Catholic. In fact I'm pretty sure our Coach of the Year isn't Catholic either. We have a GREAT school and a fantastic team of boys....but not all of the Catholic faith. So to answer the age old question, I think it's the disciplined environment from which they come that makes for some really fine athletes...and oh yeah don't we recruit? ha ha ha

STAWrestlingmom.

Then why is this the first state championship wrestling team Aquinas has ever had if Catholics make such great wrestlers.

The Scholar

That's like Peter raising Chris as a Jew so he would be successful and good at math... [/QUOTE]

I won't really do it, my wife won't let me

STAWrestlingmom,
Thanks for the clarification on the diversity of your great team and coach. I cannot imagine why a non-Catholic would want to pay to suffer through Catholic school. Those recruits must really want to wrestle for STA!
Congratulations to the Saints and non-Saints wrestling for STA.

I don't think anyone "suffers" through St. Thomas Aquinas. Those on the outside need to know that Catholic school isn't the same as it was years ago. Nobody is getting their knuckles hit with rulers or anything like that. Once in a while though a kid may be asked to say the Hail Mary in Spanish - that may be tough for our non-Catholic students! :p

In fact, if you ask most of the students, wrestlers or not, they would tell you they love going to STA and even alumni are proud to have graduated from there.

Also, most of our current varsity team are sophomores - hopefully we can get to the championship again next year!

Hey, that Spanish Hail Mary was tough for my Catholic student who has been in Catholic school since his preschool days! We went over it so many times that I learned it, too! Rumor has it one girl learned it during a single class period. We were not so lucky.

Very seldom do I agree with acbulldog. I know Bishop Carroll recruits and even though my stepdaughter went there as a freshman which meens I have a few ties to Carroll ( in freindship only) I also have the proof of them recruiting. Will I bring it forward? Nope!! Do I think Carroll is a dynasty? Yes but in a different way, for I will say one thing for the Catholics, they will support one another untill the end . As long as they have something to gain. And I meen that in a good way.

STAwrestlingmom-

If the coach and some of the wrestlers aren't Catholic, do they still have to participate in the sacrifices and rain dances? Are all wrestlers forced to practice cannibalism, or just the Catholic ones? Please let me know, as I have wondered this for some time.

-Prant

As far as I'm aware, they participate in everything except receiving Communion. Religion classes, all-school Mass, etc. They are required to do service hours, the same as everyone else. And I think they got rid of the rain dances, most people have automatic sprinkler systems in their yards.

Hit the add reply button too quickly:

Prant:

I think you have crossed the line with your statements about cannibalism and rain dances. Cracks at the Catholic faith don't belong on this forum.

Non-Catholic students do take 4 years of CATHOLIC theology. And no, they don't receive the Eucharist, in fact no non-Catholic should! I do believe that the wrestling team says a prayer before each tournament. But that is not just a Catholic thing - although those in public schools might meet up with the ACLU if they chose to pray.

St. Thomas Aquinas - pray for us - And Prant!

It doesn't matter if they recruit they can get away with it more because there a private school. However you can recruit in a public school just as well if you have the right coaches in there. The only problem with that is you will recieve alot more crap for it because its a public school. Congrats to STA and BC they have some great teams and some very good kids. Lots of love to those two programs. Also does anyone know what Blake Syleret is doing now.

Wait...don't Catholics eat the body and blood of Ol' JC? Sounds cannibalistic to me...
But seriously, if cannibalistic jokes are wrong, I don't want to be right.

I went to Carroll and we DID NOT RECRUIT!!! We have a great developmental program. This year alone 2 guys took 4th in state and they started wrestling in high school. (Joe Duling 119#, Collin Gabler 160#) Nathan Brenner only wrestled 2 yrs prior to high school and he was a 3 time state placer. There were 5 guys on varsity this year who started wrestling in high school.

If you want me to go on with all the state placers, state champs, (and one all-american) who all started wrestling in high school, I can.

oh yeah, I love the blind accusations by some people. Can you say "jealousy".

I think some people are upset a bunch of Catholic boys kicked the crap out of them.

one last thing: I hate it when people hide behind their screen names. So to clarify, I'm Jake Johnston. I started wrestling at Carroll my freshman year, was on varsity 3 years. SQ 2 years, state finalist my senior year. Now I'm wrestling at Buena Vista University.

You know when someone feels inferior when they pull the "recruiting" card out. Just like those who pull they "steriods" card out on Olathe North. Because if your team isn't a winner than the others must be cheating.

The huge flaw in this arguement as it pertains to STA (can't speak for BC) is that this is the first ever state title for them. As wrestlingmom said, this is a team loaded with sophomores. Not to mention the fact that Aquinas does not do well in other mens sports such as basketball and football. Although they have had success, not to the level of other programs (Olathe North, Blue Valley, etc). You'd think of all sports with in the school those two programs would recruit any and all players they could. They do make the most money for a school on average.

So why is the recruiting and/or steroids card used? Because if you can't match their level of play then you need to try and bring them down by unfounded accusations. Because if you know of a recruiting violation you SHOULD turn them in.

Josh Carroll: Blake Seiler is currently playing football at Kansas State. He wrestled for Oklahoma State for one year and then transferred to K-State to play football.

What weight did he wrestle at OSU? I think I may have wrestled him at the KSU intramural tournament last year.

I like to seeing these wrestling moms on the forum. They're a pretty fiesty lot and that may explain it. Like Cael Sanderson's mom. It's the moms, not the recruiting, the kids program, the Catholicism or the rigid schooling. It's got to be these battling moms who give their kids a competitive edge.

I think your going a little overboard on the jealous thing alright because not very many teams have to be jealous of either one of these teams, hey they can finally win a couple come on alot more state championships to be jealous and I don't know why anybody would be jealous of a catholic so many messed up views. lol my opinion but get real and out of your jahova wanna be beliefs.

Oh a former carrol 152 you guys never beat us you got second one time when I was in high school.............................................................................................................................................................................. .................................................................

acbulldog-

Your comments are ridiculous. As someone from a majority-Protestant area who lives in an area that is not, I am well aware of the inaccuracies, rumors and lies told about other religions. (I've been told that Protestants don't celebrate Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, or Palm Sunday...we do.) Catholics sometimes get a bad rap from closed-minded people in Kansas, just like Protestants in New York sometimes get a bad rap from Catholics and Jews who associate all Protestants with Jerry Falwell.

Your statements are inappropriate, wrong, and stupid. So there you go.

That being said, I fully believe it was the voodoo dolls and virgin sacrifices performed by STA in the locker room that enabled them to win state this year. (<---jokes.)

I recently had a discussion with a Catholic school administrator, his claim was that less than 1% of the kids at Aquinas were not Catholic. Well truth be told most folks would rather register with a parish and pay the tithing than pay the increased tuition( substantial for non-catholics). It is a pretty simple procedure in this regard to become "Catholic" It is in this way that the schools are able to get a select group of kids.

On the other hand, I personally know the coaches and families there, the coaching is first rate, and the parental involvement is second to none....so unless you are an administrator at that school or you know a kid that admits to being recruited, the rest is just drivel.

are you sure that the whole catholic school thing isnt a cover up Prant? maybe both BC and STA sold their souls for championships

Dingbat - I'm assuming that you, AC, chewbacca and Prant are either teenagers in high school or young adults so you may not know that the comments that you have made above are fighting words! I will give you the benefit of the doubt if you are young but I would suggest that you truly look into what we (Catholics) believe and you may find that we are not as bad as you make us out to be. I am not good at quoting scripture but here goes : Jn 6, 51-58. This is just one of the many scriptures that supports the Eucharist. But like I've said before, cracks at the Catholic religion should not be part of this forum. Please no more cracks - don't make me pull out my rosary beads boys!

Gutwrench - there are two things that bring out my fighting spirit - 1. Mess with my kids 2. Mess with my church. And wrestling moms can't be weak in the stomach - there is no way to put up with this sport with all the bleeding, sweaty clothes, stinky kneepads/shoes, spit in cups which you find in the cupholders of your van, ringworm, cauliflower ear, and the worst is when the boys blow there nose into a trash can! You don't see very many "princess moms" in the stands, we are a tough group!

Let's give the Aquinas boys credit for winning a state championship - without any voodoo, cannibalism, virgin sacrifice - they won with hard work in the wrestling room - I know my son worked hard and sacrificed a lot for this team and I'm sure each Mom/Dad and coach will tell you that about every person on the team.

olderigetbetteriwuz

The tithe is no longer used, or should I say imposed by the Catholic Church. It was a common practice during Middle Ages, but not that common today. I think the term you’re looking for is the collection plate which is passed during the offertory.

As for those who are getting their kicks bashing Catholics, you guys need to study the history of the Catholic Church a little more closely. All of the Protestant religions began as spinoffs of the Catholic Church during the Protestant Reformation period, beginning with Lutheranism.

Scott Neil
Social Studies Chair
Head Wrestling Coach Basehor-Linwood H.S.
(Non-practicing Catholic, but don’t tell my mom)

So would that make all Protestants simply fallen Catholics?

Way to go STA and BC --- now let's just bring Immaculata back and to glory (Maur Hill can stay where it is, wherever that is!!!)

And Bishop Ward. We need a 4A school to complete the sweep! :p

Congrats to STA and BC, both rival schools of Blue Valley (one in league and one in class). Very deserving champions, regardless of their denomination. They beat us on the mat and that is all that matters! I have to agree with wrestlingmom, probably ought to get better in the wrestling room rather than throw stones.

Absolutely KCWrestlersMom!

sportsfan - actually yes, Protestants are fallen away Catholics - study the Reformation, that's when Protestants broke away - I believe beginning with Luther. They have different beliefs and that is okay! If Catholics were so strict we wouldn't let Protestants in at Aquinas!

NO actually Catholic are Protestants whose church went astray long before the reformation. The reformation just brought the church back to where it was before Rome.

This USED to be a wrestling Talk Forum, not theology class. Just take Catholic out of the thread topic and give credit where it is due. They are both very good wrestling teams, regardless of their denomination. Deal with it!

Amen - er, no kidding!

I was kidding. Normally you won't see me say "duh" unless I'm not being serious.

And I didn't win state but thank you anyways.

sorry Lancer, I was mistaken with your identity. Darn those psudonyms (or however you spell it, sorry Prant and those of the PSM).

I read every word of every post on this entire topic,aaaaannnnndddd I think Richard Salyer is winning this debate without having to say much. The nicest guys in wrestling come from Wichita. I can proove it!! Catholic or Mormons alike,we are superior!!! :-)

I would have to disagree Mike Church Sr. The nicest guys in wrestling are those that help the other guy up off the mat after they have just kicked their butt..doesn't matter where they are from. As far as Richard Salyer winning without having much to say? hmmm not touching that one.

Well, if Richard doesn't like what's happening, he'll just go get someone fired. Isn't that his best thing?

Hey acbulldog, we heard that AC recruits Okies all the time. But some of Ponca's cast-offs would make some damm good wrestlers. Like someone said earlier, it's nice to see some other schools make AC work for it now !

AC BULLDOG get use to the view from 2nd place.
The scenery will never change and that is the backside of BC in 1st.

ksbevo,
Congradulations on BC'S Championship!! Remember I still owe you a steak dinner anywhere you like.
Lets put AC BULLDOG aside, (since noone in ark city claims him). But seriously and everyone who knows wrestling knows that Ark City is for a fact a dynasty in wrestling. They are so rich in tradition almost everyone should envy them. They have so many State Titles is doesn't seem right and I know they will never get use to 2nd place or less. Now they may do no better but they won't get use to it. That aside how do you think BC will do next year? Also with Campus graduating 3 excellent wrestlers this year it will loosen up your regional next year, making Ark City a little more of a challenge. I don't look for Campus to be a serious challenger for awhile,I could be wrong, I was once before.


Mike Church Sr.

thks Mike , meet you at Park ctiy matches.

posted March 04, 2005 07:57 PM
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Well, if Richard doesn't like what's happening, he'll just go get someone fired. Isn't that his best thing?

* Swish *

Actually coach Neil, I am Catholic and have children in Catholic school,and yes mabey we are in the middle ages , but we still "tithe" and if you dont ante up a certain amount ,your tuition goes to the non-Catholic rate.

olderigetbetteriwuz

I am Catholic also, so at least I have that going for me. Believe me I wasn’t criticizing the Church.
I was just saying the tithe was a tax imposed by the Church and punishable if not paid. The Church can no longer do this legally, punish for lack of payment that is.
I know our Parish has never used the tithe, but we never had to support and area school either.
I am interested in any information you have on it though. I’m always looking for new material to present to my students in class. Actually, we just finished the Renaissance and Reformation periods, but I could use it next year.

Well said wrestlingmom...."Thank You!"