275 3-2-1A

Just curious what do you guys think about Chris Eberwein from Wabaunsee? He is currently 24-3 and has wrestled pretty well the last couple of weeks. He has been ranked as high as 5th during the season. What do you guys think?

I think the top guy in this weight class has got to Andrew Ubben from Phillsburg.

I know Chris won't win the state title, but how do you think he will finish?

He has 4 or 5 other guys in his weight at regional who have been ranked during the season. After we see how he fares in the regionals you will have a better idea.

Ubben will definately win this year. I think Chris will have to wrestle well to place at state. After Ubben it is a toss-up for who will medal 2 through 6. Anyone on Ubben's side of the bracket will pry be shooting for 3rd, but anyone on the other side of the bracket will have a legitimate shot at 2nd. Although Kimsey from Prarie View has been good all year. I think he's got the best shot, if any, to beat Ubben.

I saw Kimsey wrestle at the Eudora tourney before christmas and was totally unimpressed at the time. I wasn't even too sure he would place in the regional. I was very surprised to see the results from last week and see where he beat one of the best 275 kids in the area. Apparently he is much better than he was early in the year. I would have to give Honas of Ellis the nod at #2 though from what I have seen this year.

Has Kimsey lost to anybody this year and if so, who? As well has the heavy weight from Stockton been able to maintain weight?

I don't know who Kimzey has lost to. I saw him wrestle Spare of Hiawatha in ot. Kimzey won but I thought Spare should have gotten a td call prior to ot. I also thought he had a td twice in ot before Kimzey finally got it.

Chris Eberwein wrestled a bad tourny and is lucky to be going to state as it is. He better show up to wrestle or he will get two and a t-shirt.

wrestler 149 is this Schu from Royal Valley

grappler 149 is this Schu from Royal Valley

I do have to take back every thing I said about Kimzey. I think he will be in the finals. Yes, Eberwein was darn lucky to even be at state. He spent about 4 rounds on his back in his matches with Gall of Rossville and Young of Effingham and was behind badly in both matches.

Fanatic...I'm curious,have you see the kid from Ellis wrestler this year?

I can't honestly tell you if I have or not. I attended a couple of tourneys in western ks including the Beloit tourney. I don't recall him being there at those. I subscribe to the Hays and Salina papers. I know he has wrestled Ubben a couple of his better matches. He at least went the distance with him. I now think Kimzey will be in the finals. He is built a lot or at least somewhat like Ubben. Not that i am saying he is at Ubbens level.

321a Wrestler if you don't mind, who are you? As well i have to say i thought that the match between Eberwein and Del Toro in the semi's was the championship match of the tourney and the only reason Kimsey won was because Del Toro got caught trying a stupid move and was pinned on it. If they would have gone the full 6 min. i think it would have been a different outcome.

not to favor anyone but thats part of wrestling. a fall ends the match and if you dont have to go a full six minutes then u dont have too.

Good point but what i am saying is if they were to meet up again than Del Toro would win. Whether they meet again or not i don't feel that Kimsey has what it takes to make it to finals. PV had kids ranked throughtout the year and they were suppossed to do rather well at the Wellsville Regional. Well as far as i am concerned, they only have 4 good wrestlers and were being over rated throughout the year.

OK. Supercharger01. I do read the forum and I know my kids do too. So I have to stick up for them. First Dennis has gotten better every week. He began the year wrestling tough competition and ended the year wrestling tough competition. He has been ranked 2nd most of the year and I think he deserves that ranking. He beat Grant and Hinton at the League Tournament then went to Regionals and pinned his way through the tournament. You are right if Del Torro would have wrestled 6 minutes he might have won. He might not have. He is a good heavy weight but again Dennis wrestled a smart match. Dennis works hard and nothing he has accomplished has been through luck. He is the type of kid every coach loves. No discipline problems, great parents, strong faith in god, extremely hard worker, and does the things you tell him to do. VERY COACHABLE. The state tournament is hard, every match is tough. But I like Dennis's opportunity to win. As far as us only having 4 good wrestlers. I have 20. They have all worked their butts of this year and supported each other. 3 of them placed 1st at regionals.(The only 3 who are ranked) and one got 3rd. lost 4-0 in the semis. (2nd year of wrestling) They are where they are because of the time them and their team mates have put in. Correct we have 3 ranked wrestlers and 4 who placed at regionals. But we have 20 great team members.

Bravo Coach V! Nothing worse than someone who pops off about something without looking at the whole picture. Your kids wrestled well (I ought to know, Sommer wrestled well all over us in the semis) and that includes more than just the four you qualified for State. People need to remember that no matter what MIGHT have happened, the guy with the gold medal is the one who won.
Good luck in Hays and we'll see you there.

Jeff Holmes
Immaculata

Your a funny guy coach V! The way you put words into my mouth like that was great. I never said your kids were out of control or bad people now did i? I just said, that as wrestlers they were over rated. Now it is great that your kids work hard and you stick up for them but, i would expect that of a coach. Well I wish your boys the best of luck out at state and congradulate them on being good people; it will help them out later in life.

Ben Eberwein

I think it is amazing that someone from Wabaunsee suggested Prarie View was over rated. I know a few people thought that with regard to Wabaunsees seeds at 215 and 275. I just wouldn't think any one from Wabaunsee would want to bring up such a thing.

Hey Fanatic, if Ben had the guts to write his name down with his opinions, why can't you? Who are you even?

To Praire View and the other doubters, I told you if Kimzey and Deltoro go 6 minutes Deltoro wins. Kimzey in the finals HA HA HA. And can anybody tell me what a Fire Ext?

To Praire View and the other doubters, I told you if Kimzey and Deltoro go 6 minutes Deltoro wins. Kimzey in the finals HA HA HA. And can anybody tell me what a Fire Ext door cost?

321A Wrestler,
You seem to have interest in knowing who hides behind their posting name as well!

I thought you were a CCC student from the NCKL so I found a name and went with it. That person would have been 14, approximately, in 2002 so I thought it was feasible. It really doesn't matter but if I knew what town you were from then I could give you some specific examples so I would be speaking directly from your perspective! It is not bullying, just curiosity.

A school cannot exist without funding. Funds have to come from jobs that are generating monies from outside of your town or community. Teaching jobs do not generate funds nor do administrators. Most western Kansas small, shrinking towns rely on agriculture as their primary resource for funds. A significant percentage of those monies are derived from government subsidies. A town cannot and should not exist just because their is a high school. 321A, let go, you are in denial! If you don't have an industry that generates jobs and a significant tax base then you should not have a shool. You are wasting your tax dollars and getting less for them and siphoning off some of mine too! I will pick on Rooks County again since I am quite sure, no matter who you are, that you are familiar with that area. They have three school districts which means they have three superintendants that drain your educational funds by $75.000 to $100,000 each. There are 235 high school kids in the top three grades of those three districts. Blue Valley has nearly 5,000 students and only one superintendant. Do we need to go on with the examples or is the picture getting clearer for you?

Why should schools with more students get more say...surely you are familiar with the electoral college and the house of representatives. They did teach you about those things in your dieing 321A high school didn't they?

Again, if you have an 8 man football team, look around, someone within 45 minutes of you has another one. Consolidate, put 11 guys on the field, put your tax dollars to better use, provide a better edcuational opportunity for your youths, and stop wasting my tax dollars.

Will,

As a Western Kansas guy, I'd like to respond. I do not disagree that we need to continue to pursue school consolidations, but you make it seem as if we have not been doing that. The Cheyenne Conference, which Palco is from, has lost Lenora, Morland, Eastern Heights and Kensington to closure or consolidation in the past few years. And while there are three schools in Rooks County, Palco, as I'm sure you are aware, also serves part of Graham County, in which there is only one. Same for Stockton. I can think of quite a few counties with only one or two districts. We have also utilized things like interactive television whereby a number of districts share teachers who teach multiple schools via interactive televisions. We must continue to explore and utilize advances in technology.

There are legal and practical limits as to how far kids should be bussed to school. Many farm kids are on a bus 30-45 minutes just to get to town. Add another 15-30 minute bus ride to another town and you have kids getting up before 6 am just to get to school. You also have a lot of high schoolers driving a lot of miles to and from school and extra curricular activities, obviously increasing the risk of traffic accidents.

While I do not fully understand the details of school finance, especially weighted enrollment, It is my understanding that the state pays X dollars for every non special education student in the state. Additional funds necessary to run each school are paid from local mill levies. That is to say, that my kids school does not cost you any more than your kid costs me. We keep our schools alive by increased local mill levies and as long as we can and decide to do so, it doesn't really hurt anyone else.

And, lastly, while Blue Valley only has one Superintendant, they have 80 administrators and almost a quarter of a billion in bond indebtedness. I don't mean that as a slam on the Blue Valley Schools. They are an excellent district. They do what they have to, as do we.

Respectfully Submitted,

Fletch F. Fletch

Cost Study Analysis - Estimating the Costs of K-12 Education

Fletch F. Fletch:

Perhaps the above link to a PDF document will answer your questions.

Thanks Richard. I did read the analysis, and frankly I'm not sure I'll ever understand. What I read has not changed my mind, but if you are suggesting I am wrong and can explain it, I'm glad to learn.

Once again thanks for the link.

Windy,

The cost per student for facilities and administrators should be and is a perfect example of how we should be leveraging our spend. It is an almost pure example of economies of scale at work. While there has been consolidation it has been far outpaced by the reduction in the number of students and since you brought up counties they too need to be consolidated. There has not been a county consolidation but there needs to be. There are 105 counties and 300 school districts in Kansas. Both of these figures could be trimmed significantly without impacting, materially, the general populace's level of service. My kids are on the bus for one hour and get up at 6am and their school is less than 10 miles away! The increase in traffic accident risk would still put that risk FAR below the risk kids in metro areas are exposed to. Eventually the inhabitants would move closer to the school if it became too much of a burden. I would advocate four day school weeks too. There are challenges but it is time we start working smart and figuring ways out to better utilize our dollars and not spend "just because we always have." Do you think there are no absentee land owners in western Kansas? There are probably as many or more than there are resident land owners! We, I am own, pay your property taxes and don't use any of the services but even worse we don't get to vote on how our tax dollars are spent!

In 2009 we will see some really tough economic conditions. Not unprecendented as it will not be as bad as "The Great Depression" but yet and still there will be many, many people without jobs and many, many government spending cuts. Why not be proactive and start figuring out how we can put our dollars to better use and spend less of them along the way.

Wow, a website where you can learn about wrestling and economics all at the same time, what a great concept! Thanks Will!LOL

Coakly.

"The cost per student for facilities and administrators should be and is a perfect example of how we should be leveraging our spend." I don't follow this statement.

As to the 105 Counties, I agree there is no reason for that many. Some county offices have already done some consolidation, but there is certainly waste in the system.

As far as the absentee land owners, we are very much aware that we have many. Way more than we would like frankly. They are a real problem for this part of the state. We are beholden to wealthy pheasant hunters and deer hunters who want to own our hunting ground, but not support anything else. They rent us back our own ground and take the money elsewhere. I'd charge them triple, but I don't have any say so in the matter.

I'm not sure why you care, or what you want us to do.

Windy,

How do you not understand that statement? The more kids per capital dollar and administrator dollar spent the more leveraged your spend is. In other words, if you only have 100 kids and your costs are $100,000 then your cost is $1,000 per kid. If you have 500 kids then your cost is only $200 per kid. If you don't have enough students to justify your costs then you either get more kids or move the kids to another under utilized situation.

I am appreciate your support for County Consolidation. Now lets figure out how we can make it happen!

You should be grateful for absentee land owners! Without them your land would be worth less. Without them buying food your land would be worth less. Without them renting the land back to your farmers then you would have less land in production thus generating less income in your community. Without hunters bringing dollars to your communities your community would be worth less. What else would you like them to support? Apparently they worked smart enough and hard enough elsewhere to buy the ground that locals could not. Capitalism! You probably hate that word too! In other words, if you try to keep everything in a closed loop community your community would be worthless!

Yes please stop buying food. That will teach us.

This is a VERY LONG POST; THOSE WITH SHORT ATTENTION SPANS OR WHO READ SLOWLY ARE ADVISED TO GO ON! ;-)

Earlier in this thread there was some discussion regarding school consolidations. A statement was made that larger districts would lead to more driving and therefore more fatalities. Will stated that kids in urban areas are at greater risk that those in rural areas. In that same response, Will suggested/asserted that going to a four day school week would save lots of money. He also made some statements about absentee ownership of property in rural areas.

In response to Will's statements, some research on teen driving and the four day school week is below, as well this poster's opinion on absentee ownership and some relevant mill levies.

It is safe to say that Will is wrong in regards to the driving issue; the four day school week has mixed reviews, both financially and academically

TEEN DRIVERS: URBAN OR RURAL AT RISK?

From: Attitudes Toward Seat Belt Use Among Urban & Rural Teens
Jeremy Diener & Lilliard E. Richardson
Institute of Public Policy Report 3 2007

". . .in general, teenage male drivers are at the highest risk with regard to seat belt non-use when involved in a crash, with RURAL MALES BEING THE WORST. . ."

* * * *

From: The Official Blog of the U.S. Secretary of Tranportation
http://fastlane.dot.gov/ 09.08.08

"Even though they drive less than other age groups, mile for mile, teenagers are involved in three times as many fatal crashes as all other drivers. TEENS DRIVING ON RURAL ROADS FACE A GREATER CHALLENGE. Even though rural roads carry less than half of America’s traffic, they are home to over half of the nation’s vehicular deaths. Worse, the FATALITY RATE FOR RURAL CRASHES IS MORE THAN TWICE THE FATALITY RATE IN URBAN CRASHES."

* * * *

From: Generational Perspectives on Teen and Older Drivers on Traffic Safety in Rural and Urban Communities
The University of Minnesota Center for Transportation Studies
Michael Manser,Director

"Traffic fatalities are a significant issue for society, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE IN RURAL ENVIRONMENTS. . ."

(note: capitalization by this poster for emphasis)

* * * *

FOUR DAY SCHOOL WEEK?

TWO Excellent summaries of the pros AND cons of four day school weeks can be found at:
www.sreb.org/scripts/Focus/Repor/08S06_Focus_sch_calendar.pdf and
www.ceep.indiana.edu/projects/PDF/PB_V1N2_Four_Day_School_Week.pdf

In quick summary, the dollar savings are not as great as they would appear on the surface. Whether or not a four day week is good for student achievement has yet to be determined.

ABSENTEE OWNERSHIP OF LAND IN RURAL AREAS

There must be some financial incentive to own land on which taxes are levied "without representation;" otherwise it seems logical that even a marginally astute business person would divest themselves of the financial liability. Does it not follow, that just as one of the supposed results of school consolidations is people will move closer to the schools when driving becomes burdensome, wouldn't absentee landowners sell their property to those living close to the property when the burden/expense of absentee ownership became too great?

Below are the 2006-07 mill levies for all USDs in Johnson County and in Rooks County as this is where Will lives and is an absentee landlord, respectively. In the interest of fair play and full disclosure Norton USD 211 has also been included. 2006-07 rates are used as these was the most recent year for which complete information could be obtained from the KSDE website. Basically, more mills = higher personal property taxes.

Johnson County
USD 229 Blue Valley 60.650
USD 230 Spring Hill 67.9898
USD 231 Gardner-Edgerton 76.329
USD 232 De Soto 69.081
USD 233 Olathe 65.172
USD 512 Shawnee Mission 50.674

Rooks County
USD 269 Palco 36.045
USD 270 Plainville 45.427
USD 271 Stockton 44.837

USD 211 Norton 35.922


Greg Mann
Norton, KS

Greg,

You are the only one to bring traffic deaths into the arguement. All of the studies I read indicate a greater risk of accidents resulting in death in rural areas but not a greater risk of accidents in general. Most of the studies indicate that rural teens do not wear their seat belts as consistently as metro teens. It is not safe to say I was wrong as I stated there was a greater risk of accidents in metro areas not deaths. Just get an insurance quote for a rural zip versus a metro zip. The studies you cite do NOT indicate that these deaths occured when driving to and from school or to and from school activities. The studies I found indicate there is a MUCH higher rate of alcohol related accidents in rural areas. I am glad that you pointed me in this direction because much of the information I read about rural teen driving is scary. It sounds like driver's education in rural areas in sorely inadequate.


By citing mill levy rates how do you think that validates the existence of these school districts. I specifically cited the cost per student. Can you deliver to us those figures? Of course the rates are going to be higher where there are far more students, larger facilities, etc. You do not address the inefficiency of too many rural school districts, too many county governments, too many rural superintendents, etc. Show us the money!

The four day school week studies may or may not thoroughly cover the benefits and costs. In rural areas they may be more feasible where longer drive times are incurred and where child labor is readily used for agriculture activities. I don't think the studies seperated rural areas versus metro areas.

I am sure you agree that you and studies can spin anything to look however they want but the reality is that the changes in our systems have not kept pace with the changes in our demographics. I expected you to quickly jump to defend your position and your peers.

Instead of debating the need for your existence, please spend some time and energy discovering that the two pound allowance makes the most sense to be allowed immediately following Christmas break instead of three weeks later. 99.9% of the wrestlers would prefer this, as very few if any will certify after Christmas at a lower weight.

Happy New Year!

For the 2008-2009 school year the base state aid per pupil is $4,433.

Click on the link for the appropriate school district for more detailed information.
Kansas State Department of Education - Total Expenditures by District

I resemble that remark!
Mr. Mann:
Did you and I not have a very similar conversation on this talk forum five (5) or six (6) years ago. As I recall, during my research I went to the Norton High School website and posted a picture of a student sleeping in a vocational education class. Did anyone ever wake that student?

Mr. Mann:
Perhaps I am incorrect however it is my understanding Will lives in Douglas County, Kansas.

For those who are unaware, a mill is 1/10 of $.01 or $.001 (one thousandth). A mill levy is $1.00 a taxpayer must pay for every $1000 of assessed property value.

I have NO dog in this hunt and my conservative views regarding taxation are perverse at best.

I DO believe we must INVEST WISELY in the value of education for our youth and believe many educators are GROSSLY underpaid and many more who should have had their contract terminated prior to attaining TENURE (another subject which I hold a perverse opinion on).

Have a GREAT New Year and I hope to see you at Newton!

We home educated our five children for five years. We paid taxes but choose do to something else with our children. It was one of the best investments we could ever make in the lives of our kids.
They know how to learn, they know how to relate to multiple age groups and are not peer socialized, and they are a positive influence on their peers....most of the time.

It is not a choice for everyone - more of a calling- But more and more parents are making this choice-

School districts are seeing the trend and are starting to offer more "virtual" training.

Mark

Will,

It's all right. Nobody can be right all the time. Please remind the good citizens of Kansas City not to be emotional as we close their schools.

Seriously though, I do agree with you about the two pounds immediately following the holidays. There is no reason kids should be afraid of Christmas dinner.

Also seriously, I hope all of you have a happy new year.

Richard,

Happy New Year to you! I do have a unique living situation. My mailing address is Eudora which is a city in Douglas County but my house is in Johnson County. However, in 2008 I paid property taxes in: Jefferson, Douglas, Johnson, Seward, Rooks, and Graham Counties but I only got to vote NO on the bond issue to build more facilities in the Mill Valley school district in Johnson County.

Like you I hate tenure. I advocate the vouchering system or some sort of privatized education system where teachers and administrators are held to a fiscal responsibility beyond "spending within their budget."

I agree with you that the good educators are underpaid in our present system. The problem is they have little or no way to be performance based evaluated and rewarded. We should employ the GE method of cleansing the bottom 10% annually to bring in new teachers and administrators. This would bring greater focus on doing a good job and investing in our youth. (This is not to say that there are not some who don't already. We all know that there are some excellent coaches and teachers who pour their life into their work without being properly rewarded for it. The problem is that for every one of those there are a handful that just put in the time they have to and collect their pay.)

I have less of a problem paying property taxes as an absentee landowner than the locals have with those of us who own land and don't live there. That is an issue I don't understand. Why would they get upset that we buy land, employ locals to farm it, visit there and spend money while hunting it, pay our property taxes while we use little or none of the services the property taxes are paying for. That seems like a great deal to me!

The biggest problem I have with the whole education system, their little control mechanism called KSHSAA, is the inablity to keep pace with the changing times. It takes FOREVER to make a change. In the business world if you have a failing entity you figure out how to change it or close it as fast as possible but in the education world you keep throwing good money after bad with no accountability. You take advantage of the emotions and keep doors open that should have long ago been shuttered. Closing a factory is just as ugly as closing a school but it has to happen. We are all living in the real world but some just don't open their eyes to see it.

Will,

I'll give you a few of the reasons why absentee ownership is not good for our area. You are right though, it is not entirely bad...few things are.

First, It takes wealth out of our local economy. Either 1/3 of our crop, or our cash rent leaves here and goes there. You may visit a time or two a year, but it doesn't replace the lost dollars. You may buy a few meals and a tank or two of gas here, but we can't sustain an economy on two weekends a year.

Second, Farmers who do not own the ground that they farm are unable to make substantial improvements to the ground, and absentee owners, as investors, often do not like to spend a lot on things such as new fence, weed control, and terracing. As is the case with all real estate, owner occupation leads to better upkeep. It also gives our producers long term security in that they have acreage to farm under control.

Third, Many of the absentee purchasers are not merely "smarter" individuals as you put it. Often they are GROUPS of people with more purchasing power. You alluded to it raising our real estate value, and that has indeed been the case. It has been raised to the point that it is no longer feasible for farmers to purchase it, and the improved value really doesn't help anybody unless they sell.

Last, you are right, there is pride and emotion involved. Hypothetically, would you be okay if Japan purchased most of America and hired us to run it? Wouldn't that be a good thing?
They would come here once in a while and buy Whoppers.

Respectfully Submitted,

John Cocktoasten

"just don't open their eyes to see it."

I do enjoy the repartee of exchanges such as these! The intelligently written thoughts of Will, Richard, Greg and Windjammer, etc. should be MUST reading for our youngsters! Perhaps they might learn how important it is to communicate legibly and intelligently.

But opening my eyes, gets to be a bit difficult because of the strain that these damnable computers have brought to me!!

On an associated issue ... how do we convince a youngster to spend 10 to 16 hours of their Saturdays in wrestling? These trying economic times require "all hands on deck" to keep families going!

Will,

#1 In regards to traffic deaths, rural teens are at greater risk for traffic fatalities than are urban teens. Putting them on the road for even greater distances will only increase that risk. BTW, the group most likely to NOT use their seat belts are rural male teens.

#2 In regards to other at-risk factors. No doubt urban youth face many at-risk factors that rural youth do not. Sounds like another really good argument for smaller rural schools.

#3 Four day school week. Both summaries of which I posted the web addresses deal with the positives and negatives of the four day school week. It may be that a four day week is the best way to go but it is not a panacea.

#4. In regards to the posted mill levies; no evaluative statements were made by me. I simply listed the most recent mill levies available via a public website for the two counties that were being discussed in the thread--let me rephrase that;Rooks County was being discussed and I included the Johnson County USDs as that was where I assumed you lived. Turns out that was a correct assumption based on on one of the many locations where you pay taxes.
The cost per student will be, in most cases, less in urban settings than in rural settings. As you know there are economies of scale available to larger systems. However, 45 mills on $100,000 worth of property is still less out-of-pocket than is 65 mills on $100,000. Also, larger facilities, greater upkeep, larger student populations, etc. are all factors which infer a much larger tax base on which to draw; so, all things being equal the difference in mill rates are hard to discount vis-a-vis overall financial efficiency.

Odds and Ends:
*In regards to the two pound growth allowance, You MAY be right. BUT, before I agree with you 100% I want to look at data; I want to evaluate the weight information of a representative sample of schools at the end of this season to determine the mean and median weight loss, use of weight loss certificates, certification dates, etc.

*I believe that more than five matches should be allowed per day of competition (this is a NF rule, by the way). If six matches per day were allowed a 16 man bracket could be wrestled all the way out in one day.

*I agree that the 500 mile travel limit is arbitrary; at the least there should be a waiver process available for those schools who feel the need to travel extensively.

*I would like to see a dual tournament and a Grand State tournament. (The first ever Kansas Grand State Champion crowned was a Norton wrestler and he still lives here; there were two years in the mid-70's when Kansas had a Grand State; MANY hated to see it discontinued). However, there are other activities for which schools are responsible and finding the time to schedule these two additional activities will be difficult at best without giving up something, or shortening the current HS wrestling season.

*And finally, in regards to the point system currently being used in Kansas; how the points are "spent" is up to each coach/school. It is my humble OPINION, however, that a maximum of 50 matches (I think that was the number you cited as being possible under the current system) is sufficient for a high school season. Again, it is about perspective and balance. An argument you and I do not need to have again.

Richard, I do plan to be in Newton and hope to be able to visit with you.

Greg Mann
Norton

Randy,

This forum is a great place to exchange thoughts and ideas with people of very diverse demographics and experiences. I hope that everyone I repartee (outstanding, word by the way) with knows that I enjoy learning from them and mean them no ill will even though I probably sound like it sometimes. We always enjoy your input as well. You always have a calming affect on everyone. Sort of like Ronald Reagan.

Do you know if attendance at USAW kids tournaments has suffered due to the current economics?

I do know from my clinics, that parents are selecting tournaments that give the "most bang for the buck!" I am not sure (but will start asking) how much our economic instability has to do with those decisions!

I also know, that a few of "my" high school athletes, are reluctantly giving up wrestling because of the time commitment on Saturdays!

I assure you, that I initially claimed BS like many of my colleagues would. But after a bit of time and asking a few questions, I have come to a different understanding. There ARE kids in Kansas that have to work to aid their families. It is getting increasingly harder to argue with a youngster who says ... "I have to work!"

Sometimes our passion for the sport lets us loose sight of what is really important in our role as coaches and supporters. Teaching in a small rural area, I have many student athletes that must work on the farm or have a job after school to help pay the bills. We ask these young men to participate in sports year around, get good grades, and to make huge sacrifices of time.
Sometimes, I wish all my wrestlers could afford to attend all sorts of camps and to wrestle in all of the big tournaments, but this is not a reality for most in our community. However; I must remember that all of the practices and time spent with them is not wasted if they do not win, or attend all the en vogue camps and tournaments, but that the memories created can not be bought, they must be lived and shared together.
I am hopefully passing on lessons they will be able to use in other aspects of their lives. I hope that I help to bring out the best each wrestler has to offer and that they leave our wrestling room mentally tough, confident, and ready to take on the many adventures of life.
Each of these fine young men are champions in my heart for the sacrifices they make for themselves and our school.

Crossface King- Nice job. I agree with you...

I have never had a problem with any locals being upset that I own ground in W. Kansas. I do have a problem keeping them OFF my ground when they don't know I'm in town. My other problem is that having started buying it 10 years ago, it has caught on, and who can afford it if Johnson county guys are in the mix : )

You present Rooks County as an example for consolidation. Ok, pick the school that survives as "Rooks County Community High School". Plainville is probably the most central to Stockton and Palco but there is a long-standing rivalry and Stockton parents and kids will hate coming to P-ville. Build a new school out in the country, central to all? More tax dollars for construction not to mention a waste of the facilities already built. Finally, Rooks county may not be the best example because of the oil value revenue.

I'll also bet that Blue valley Supt, makes more than 75 to 100k. (maybe not 3 times that, but more and he has "assistants".)Maybe those studies have a cost of education per kiddo for the various districts but that would require study as opposed to merely popping off.

I too have problems with locals ILLEGALLY hunting on my ground. The buying competition has more frequently come from Colorado, Texas, and "old money" not from Johnson County. I have been to nearly every auction between the rivers from hwy 283 to hwy 183 and I have seen the increase in values. However, the ground that is bringing the highest dollar is the "waste" ground which can sometimes be used for grazing. Groups of hunters are paying way too much, from an income standpoint, but the crop land brings about what it can return and it is usually someone local buying it. The high commodity prices and high oil prices pushed these values up and I am sure there are many 2008 land buyers who are having remorse!



Your argument against consolidation in Rooks is "long-standing rivalry." That is not how you make a sound business or economic decision. That is an emotional decision. You send them all to Plainville and tell them to get along or drive to TMP! The schools in Palco and Stockton are becoming dated and I am sure the maintenance costs are quite high. There are other costs that are tripled by having three schools other than the superintendent I just used that as an example. With the total budget for the three schools it would take about 30 minutes to analyze it and figure out that there would be huge cost savings to combine. In addition, these students do not have near the education and extra curricular opportunities that kids in larger schools get. I know that Palco has six girls out for their varsity HS basketball team. I guess the coach doesn't have to worry about parents yelling for playing time!

Why do you point out the Rooks oil revenue? It brings in more property tax dollars but what else? Most of that revenue never sees Rooks county. The ownership of minerals is 1/8 to the land owner but much of this has been fragmented, sold off, and those dollars never get spent locally. The other 7/8th's goes to oil companies and investment groups. Again, most of this money is paid out to non residents. Oil recently became Rooks County's enemy. The high wages paid during the recent boom stripped the Schulte manufacturing company of its labor so they closed their doors. Now that oil is back down many of those employees will not have jobs so they will be driving to Hays or moving.

There are 213 321A schools with a total, top three class, enrollment of 22,186 and there are 17 Johnson County public high schools with a total, top three class, enrollment of 19,397. You don't have to conduct much of study to figure out that we have some serious spending problems unless you are trying to justify the waste that is going on in 321A.

I usually just read the posts on here, but from time to time I have to put my two cents worth in on a subject. Will, you have called out Rooks County as an example. This hits very close to home as it was my home for about 25 years of my 40 year life. I have lived from Hays to Phillipsburg and everywhere in between. Yes I am one of the Stockton people that lived in Plainville for a while about 6 years.

Consolidation is a dirty word in Western Kansas. Many of the communities rely on government jobs to feed their families. I know because I have worked for the government at many levels for the past 20 years. In a small town such as Palco or Stockton the economy relies basically on 2 things, Farm income and government jobs. If you start consolidating government jobs families will have to leave because one or more of the parents' jobs relies on a government job. It may be a cook at the school, teacher, janitor or someone that keeps the roads up so you can get to that piece of property that you own. This could be a county motor grader operator or a state highway worker. Also the people that take your tax money at the court house. Then you have all the government jobs associated with agriculture. Oh, I forgot the 2 game wardens west of Salina that are supposed to patrol everyones' land for illegal hunting. Fact is consolidating government jobs will make the western side of the state die out completely. I am not stating that consolidation isn't going to save tax payer dollars, but at what cost to the people of Kansas. Many of the east coast people still have family in western Kansas. Many like to go back and hunt, see family or just get out of the rat race for a while. It would be sad day for Kansas if the rural life wasn't an option anymore.

As for oil driving Schulte Homes out of business, I'm not buying that. It had many problems before the oil market surged. They coexisted in the 80's. Managment and being bought out by a larger company was the culprit for the demise of Shulte.

Will, I do agree that Kansas has way to many counties. I have studied this and your number, which I beleive was around 65 is not to far off. I will happen some day, but I doubt if happens anytime soon.

As someone that has recently lived on the west and now lives on the east I can tell you there is a vast difference on how people think on the consolidation issue. Emotion plays a huge role in decisions of everyday life so it would be expected it would play a role in consolidation. Administrators and teachers are just trying to figure out how to keep their jobs. I doubt that anything to do with wrestling is on their minds when it comes to decisions who's end results may hinder what the minority of us in the wrestling community want.

All JMO

Bob Oliva

I have friends who hunt in and around Rooks County so if you and Cokely want to send me the exact locations of your lands and dates you will not be there, my friends will guarantee you that nobody else will hunt those lands during your absence.

Sportsfan02...friends?? Really! Name two.

"In addition, these students do not have near the education and extra curricular opportunities that kids in larger schools get. I know that Palco has six girls out for their varsity HS basketball team. I guess the coach doesn't have to worry about parents yelling for playing time!"

Bigger isn't always better in terms of opportunities. My kids go to a school with 4000 kids. If you don't decide what you want to do in about 5th or 6th grade, specialize and work your behind off you aren't playing high school varsity sports (there are a few really athletic abberations who are exceptions). I realize that P-Ville, stockton and Palco won't quite have 4000.

Consolidation has occurred and will keep occurring (remember Bogue?) My recollection is that Bogue shut down (after a year of playing a girl in order to get 8 for 8-man (person?) football) and Hill City won 3A Basketball with 3 kids that would have gone to Bogue. Phil Switzer, Arnie Carter? and a kid I don't remember. Old timers like me are here to stand astride progress and yell halt.