state 6a

whos gunna win state this year for 6a? manhattan or maize?

Neither Manhattan nor Maize stand a snowballs chance in Texas of winning state. Fact is, and put this on your calender, neither will place in the top eight :-)

I can see you maybe being right about Maize not being in the top 8, but I don't see Manhattan being out of the top 5.

Mr. Church you are absolutely right… The entire returning group of state medallists have decided to forgo their wrestling careers and have joined the new bowling team (something about 16 pound balls). The remaining group has followed Coach Andrade to Rock Creek High School so that team can finally win a State title in Hays this year. All I have is one disappointing word “Recruiting” Go Mustangs!

Stangs all the way baby!

yeah this is deffinitly the mustangs year

I agree with mike church sr. I don't think that maize will place in the top 8 but manhattan might. I like bowling

Do not under estimate Maize and ol' Oeaser grasshopper.
They were 3rd last year and are always in the top 8. They did graduate 4 qualifiers but still return a lot of points and always have the potential to score points from "non qualifiers" or quality freshman.
Plus, they are likely to have 3 finalists and perhaps even more.
I predict they will be no less than top 5.

If Coach Ross splits Furchuches, Miller, Stephens and Altman, Derby may have state locked up after the finals of the first four weights.

So they won't finish in the top 1/4 of their state? Sounds far fetched possibly for Manhattan...don't know what Maize has back.

far fetched... deffinitly

anythings possible. but please people, lets be a little realistic, season hasn't even started yet and we're already trying to "crystal ball" the outcomes of state?

MIke Church Sr. your nuts. Hat town boys will hold it down. They definitely have a chance at state with youth and stong leadership, they will be in rare form by the end of the year.

PS Boach can see into the future! @@

Brettimus my crystal ball is out, ad you know the Boach can see the future.

mos def boach, also, i'm gonna need another practice shirt from ya, i can't seem to find the ninja one and season is 2 weeks away, i'm in a jam!

Goddard is stacked in the lower weights also..Goddard and Derby look good to me.

Brettimus I will see what I can do for you. good to hear from you too bud, keep up the good work

Well to say they won't finish in the top eight is like walking on hot rocks. I take it back. lol!! Goddard, Derby, and Maize all look strong with some quality youth coming in. A better poll would be who is toughest 6A or 5A. 5A looks tough as they were last year.

Goddard, Derby, Maize, Manhattan

top 2...and these r in no order at all...

Goddard..NW

gonna be a cat fight

cant wait

statebound08, you have to go to NW!! Noone else would make that statement. :p

nawwww...

Goddard ..

BUT good guys...

(my cousin goes there hehehehehe)

Good guess* ...sorry

5a has never been as tough as 6a, anyone who knows anything about wrestling knows that

I would have to agree, then again I would have say the toughest tournament in the state of kansas is the Russell Invitational just because Boach Clack attends it!

Not true Boach Clack,
In 2000, Goddard beat Emporia three times throughout the year. Emporia won 6A while Goddard had to settle for 2nd in 5A behind Ark City. Two years ago, Carroll won Newton besting the 6A powers Manhattan, Hutch, Derby, Maize, etc. but had to settle for 2nd in 5A to Turner. Perhaps a time ago, your statement would be true, but certainly not in the last 5-10 years. And with Aquinas in 5A now there is no question that 5A is the toughest.

In the tournament that Carrol beat Manhattan, Manhattan had more wins and won both head to head matchups in the finals. Also, earlier in the year, Manhattan defeated Turner and won more of the head to head match ups there as well. I would say that 6a reigned supreme in both of those cases. Plus Manhattan would have won in duals with both of them, obviously.

Manhattan may have beaten Turner, but they never reigned supreme over Carroll and you cannot say they would have beaten them in a dual. The bottom line is that Carroll beat Manhattan. But since A beat B and B beat C and C beat A, I will have to push that one. We know one thing for sure and that is that Carroll beat Manhattan at Newton like the last 4 years in a row and also Clay Center the 4A champ and last year Turner beat Aquinas the 6A champ at the Bobcat but had to settle for 2nd to Carroll in 5A. The main point is that the days of 5A being the weak little brother are long gone so get over it.

Too bad Manhattan placed 1st my junior year and 2nd my senior year when we won more matches including more head to head matches with Carrol. I would say that winning more head to head matches means we would have won because in case you didn't notice, that's what a dual is.

Find a lineup of Bishop Carrol from 03-04 and go through the list. We would have won at many, many weights and also, they're star wrestler, was defeated by myself. I would say that it wouldn't have really been that close.

hey mike church sr. untill your team does something dont talk bout how bad teams are gonna be. next wsewc what ur sayin is true but look at the bracket manhattan placed higher in almost every weight, manhattan won more matches, and the only difference is falls

I believe he was just being friendly and joking around. There is no need to take a personal attack on Mr. Church.

Didn't a good chunk of 6a transfer down to 5a? Campus moved up to 6a after graduating the Trio of Terror.

If by good chunk you mean like, 2 schools. I think what kansaswrestler means is that Manhattan's accomplishments in the last 4-5 years are rivaled by very few and to say that we couldn't beat someone that we have beaten quite recently is a little messed up. Plus we all know that other than BC, there aren't any Wichita teams that have been good in years.

For the most part.

Why do you have to turn it in to a Wichita thing
Billy Mac, that was a punk thing to do. It is not about that at all. First somebody brings up how tough 5A was going to be especially with the addition of Aquinas and Emporia. Then somebody wants to make a smack comment about 5A. I brought up Goddard who was in 5A 5 years ago, Carroll and then Turner as just a FEW examples of the toughness of 5A. Then you have to go into this whole BC vs. Manhattan thing and that is not what it was about. Now you are going to turn it into a Wichita sucks thing and that was a punk thing to do and was wrong. First of all, West who is in 5A now won your precious 6A title in 99. South was third in 2000 in 6A and is always near the top of 6A. Heights was near the top in 2003 or 2004. I am sure there are more examples but I cannot remember them all. Kapaun was third in 5A in 2000 behind Ark City and Goddard. Also I can remember a couple of years ago when one of your Manhappiness stars was bested in the finals at state by some pitiful kid from East High. Last year Northwest was 6th in 6A and South was close to the top, so I do not know where all of this Wichita crap is coming from but I can guarantee you that NW will be real high this year and South will be near the top again. I could see three Wichita teams in the top ten of 6A this year. No one was ever disrespecting Manhattan so you need to get off that crap. Everybody respects Manhattan so you do not have to worry about that.

I got it. Instead of the east/west classic. Let the 4 state champion teams dual it out. Then there would be no question of bragging rights for a year. Well at least a month or two.

Nick Flynn

That is currently what they're trying to do. If the #1 guy cannot make it then the #2 guy is invited I believe is how it is setup.

Alex

Alex,

What I would like to see is the whole state champion team compete against each other, not individual champs. For example, the State Champ team from 6a against the state champ team from 1-3a. 4a -vs - 5a. Round robin the duals, and the winner is the "grand" state champion team.

Nick

kansaswrestler2_103, What team are you talking about? I support several teams. I personally think Bishopp Carroll would spank Manhappylalaland in a duel but thats just my opinion so don't take it personal. I agree with WSEWC on the Wichita thing and can't wait to see you at Newton. Wichita has great highschool wrestling so go ahead and overlook us. We thrive on it.

I said Wichita wrestling is bad because out of all the people in that area, only a small number of outstanding wrestlers are produced. The ratio of good wrestlers to bad wrestlers is absurd. I would also double dog dare you to find me a lineup of Bishop Carrol in 2003-2004. Not only would we have beat them in a dual, but we would have dominated. If their best wrestler could be beaten by Manhattan by 6-8 like the case was every single time, then how do you expect the rest of the team to step up and win? And WSEWC, it was not a punk thing to do. You did the punk thing and spoke on issues you're not associated with. You don't know me, kansaswrestler, or anyone from Manhattan at that time, so your information is quite limited, as always. Have a nice day gentleman.

I would also like to say that I agree with Alex. You shouldn't do whole teams in the same association with best wrestlers. The only real way to settle it, is to have top 2 from each classification battle it out. Then on a later date, take the top 4 from each classification and see who's the best. That way you have a 16 man bracket and you will get the wrestlers who placed 3rd maybe because of a bad call on the front side.

Chris:

As you know, Manhattan High School consists of two campus facilities:

East Campus
901 Poyntz Ave.
Manhattan, KS 66502

and

West Campus
2100 Poyntz Ave.
Manhattan, KS 66502

If the Wichita school district followed the lead of the Manhattan school district and combined the enrollment of their campus facilities to form one, two, three, or four athletic programs, instead of the current seven public school programs, the results likely would be entirely different.

It would be interesting to determine how successful the Manhattan athletic programs would be if each campus facility formed their own athletic programs similar to Andover, Lawrence, and Salina, etc. With the talent pool diluted in all athletic programs to support an East and West high school program, it is much more difficult for either school to compete for a championship in either football or wrestling.

There have been years in the recent past when Wichita South and Wichita West, with their wrestling programs combined, would have seriously challenged for, if not won, the large school championship.

Based on past Manhattan enrollment figures, if the Manhattan school district followed the norm in Kansas and had athletic programs at each campus, with the reduced enrollment figures, the Manhattan schools would compete in the 5A classification and would likely have fared far worse against teams such as Arkansas City, Bishop Carroll and K. C. Turner.

While you are smugly bad mouthing other school district programs, remember Manhattan is competing with two high school campuses combined to increase the number of students with which to populate the team and increase the odds of success.

Mr. Salyer,

Without entering into this debate, I do believe you are misunderstanding the "East Campus" and "West Campus" issue.

In the mid-90s, USD 383 built two new middle schools to alleviate the over-crowding at Manhattan Middle School. The freshman from MHS were then moved to the East Campus so that all grades would have more space.

Thus, East Campus is an all-freshman school. Freshman are bused up to the West Campus for varsity athletics, and both the East and West campus are considered "Manhattan High School."

Hope this clears things up.

I like the concept that Manhattan has two High schools. Manhattan East and Manhattan West. East side/West side. Sounds pretty gangster to me HOMIE!

Yes it does! Thank you for the clarification as I did have an obvious gross misunderstanding of the two campus issue.

STA might have a good chance in the 5A

Come on billy mcjackson, get real. Your comments are absurd man. Give it a rest.
The ratio of quality wrestlers per number of students coming out of Wichita is just as high as any district in the state and higher than most. Remember that those Wichita kids are not at one high school, they are spread out over 12 schools in all 4 classes.
This was a 5A discussion that you turned into a Manhattan vs. Wichita thing. I gave Manhattan their props but that was not good enough for you. You had to hack some more on Wichita. How many DI wrestlers has Manhattan produced, one? Wichita has produced many. And tons from the other divisions.
Additionally, the Wichita district has produced more team state championships than any district in the state and I am not counting Kapaun and Carroll. Be thankful that the district is split up because if you put those high schools (just the public) together, no other school from any district would ever win a title and more than half of the best athletes do not even wrestle because overall, Wichita cares more about basketball than wrestling. Most of the wrestling "powers" in the state do not have that problem.
Why are you still ranting about Carroll and this "hypothetical dual victory" thing. Do you have a Carroll complex. You can say what you want, but Carroll has owned Manhattan over the years. Once again, I gave Manhattan their props but that was not good enough for you. Stats and results talk. How about last year? Manhattan, the 6A runner-up, was what at Newton, 8th?
They placed behind the 3A state champ, the 4A state champ, the 5A state champ (Carroll) and two other 5A teams. I guess they had a bad weekend, right? Or perhaps bad match ups at the tournament? Everybody respects Manhattan but you are not giving them much reason to.
And as far as I go, you are lost. It does not matter whether I know you or anyone from Manhattan, I do know the issues and I am associated with them, it's my profession so my information is far from limited. For you on the other hand, it's a hobby. Also, I do not have to know you to know the issues. You do not know me, but you are an authority on Wichita (in your own mind).

last year we had 4 JV guys in the line up at Newton

Uhm...i'm pretty sure the topic title reads - "state 6a"

Yes Brettimus, you are correct. But someone, and it was not me, brought up how tough 5A was going to be especially with the addition of Aquinas and Emporia. Someone then preceeded to slam 5A and that is when I responded and it went from there.

mike church do ever watch manhattan wrestle? cause it doesnt sound like it

kansaswrestler2_103, both of your post are very interesting. I know you put alot of thought into both of them. Yes I have watched Manhappyland wrestle. They were very exciting back in the late 90's and with a little work could be that good again. Best of luck to ya.

Manhattan was pretty intimidating from about 145-HWT for a good run of 5-6 years. Chapman wrestled Manhattan and Hays in a double dual a few years in a row. It was always a good laugh to watch Joel Calovich wrestle Scott Coleman.

Mr. Church,

I hope you are being sarcastic here, but Manhattan has been very good for a much greater time frame than the late 90's. Lets just look at their accomplishments in the last 6 years (99-00 season through 04-05). They won state in 2004, and 2nd the year before and the year after, and if my memory serves me correctly did not finish lower than 3rd any time since 2000. To me that is pretty darn good. I would say they have been exciting, and with hard work and a little luck (which I believe you create for yourself through hard work) could be state champions this year, not just pretty darn good.

Again, I hope you were being sarcastic- but if not I believe the accomplishments of Manhattan's wrestling program speak loud enough.

Thanks Twink... It's obvious that Mr. Church has not followed 6A wresting for sometime. I know that Manhattan is a team that everyone loves to hate. But when you have been as successful with a bunch of no name wrestlers that just speaks for the kids and coaches determination to make do with the with what hand they were dealt. For some reason I recall a coach being named to the Hall of Fame, I wonder where he was from?

Manhattan wrestling was pretty dominant in 97-98, too, back when they were loaded with state champions: Scott Coleman (96, 97, 98), Matt Bradshaw (runner-up in 96, champ in 97 and 98), AJ Polansky (97, 98), and Damon Parker (97, 98). Not to mention some other good wrestlers who made some runs for the title, such as Kenneth Walter and Josh Pemberton.

Manhattan is a school with a great tradition and some recent successes that very few schools can rival. They've got reason to be confident with their potential for success in the coming years, but the thing is, each year brings a new season. Each year they (like any other team) have to overcome the reality of graduating seniors, injuries, and ineligibility. Their tradition is enough to give them a psychological edge, but it's not like they can carry their team trophies or individual state medals with them onto the mat each time they compete. We'll just have to see what February brings for all of us.

church i put lots of thought into what i say i mean ive been around manhattna wrestling long enough to know that where better than ur making us out to be so if u wanna talk u better back up ur statement with facts of why manhattan "sucks" besides that we beat whatever team ur cheering for

Hey Church's...I just figured out that I'm sitting next to your sister and step-daughter right now...Jenifer Lekawa....small world..

Chase, It must be tough. I hope your in school making that statement!! Hey Goddard looks good this year!! Best of luck to you guys. Tell Tyler Caldwell hello for me.

kansaswrestler2_103, Good luck to ya buddy!! Just don't let the Manhattanites like Prant see your spelling/grammar. He says I spell like an 8th grader, that would put you on about the third grade level. I hope Manhattan wrestling doesn't go the same direction as Manhattan football I'd have to sell my purple crap to the hippies on the south side. Ohh Scott Coleman and Matt Bradshaw were two of my favorite wrestlers to watch back in the mid to later 90's its just not that exciting there to me anymore but don't take it personal thats just me!! Also little man you won't find a post where I ever said anyone sucks thats you talkin. Right now I think Hoxie and Norton carry the big stick!!

manhattan isnt going to place in the top eight? i guarentee manhattan places in the top 3. mike church i dont know who you think you are but before you talk trash on hat town dont you think you should know who's even wrestling? last year we took second and this year we're stacked.

Yea I was in school when I posted that...I'm a library aid one of my hours (tough class) and they came in and we was chatting and I was looking at wrestling stuff and she mentioned your guys names...

steve andrus, Great post Steve I enjoyed every word in it. You call it trash talk and thats great!! Read your own post. You get an A+ in replys.

I saw Big Steve wrestle at Cadets and he reminds me a lot of John Paul Shepherd who was overlooked by many until they were counting the lights. Steve is going to be one of the key leaders on this team...and after Manhattan does well he will resume his normal life off the mats as an expert bowler at the Kstate Student Union.

I certainly do not want to take anything away from Hoxie and Norton, they are both two tradition rich, time honored programs, but I am also not prepared to proclaim them "carriers of the big stick", especially Hoxie. Hoxie has a lot to do to make up from last year as they were beaten by the 15th place finisher in 5A. Norton, as the defending champ of Newton though, definately gets a nod but they will obviously get the chance to prove themselves again this year at Newton. Carroll, Manhattan, Aquinas, Turner, Clay Center, Ark City, Abilene, St. Francis, etc. are big stick carriers as well and certainly must be mentioned in the same breath as Norton and Hoxie.

I agree... Do any Oklahoma teams dare to try their luck at Newton this year? I believe they bit off a little more than they desired last year. Norton jumped out to an early lead with multiple falls in the pigtail rounds. Hard to catch up after that. Newton is the real deal, this is as close to a grand state that you can get. They just need more bleacher space. Great tournament!

Do not get mad at me for this reply please, but I feel that I must clear one thing up.
You do not want the big dogs from Oklahoma to come to Newton because they would rule it.
Although Perry is a quality program, they are not even top twenty in Oklahoma. They are 2A and in Oklahoma, there is a big difference between 2A and the other classes. There are fifteen or more teams in 5A and 4A that are better and 5 or so in 3A.
El Reno which is usually in the top ten in the country and I believe is ranked 16th this year would have beaten Perry ~50 to nothing last year. Ponca City, Broken Arrow and others would also destroy them. I do not want to be a hater and I love Kansas but that is simply the truth.

i still say church doesnt know anything about wrestling because scott and matt were two very good individual wrestlers but in the last 5 years we've had better teams cause odviously if they were so good they would have won state as a team o ya and quit taking shots at high schoolers man ur an old man

take manhattan down to the perry tournment and see how they fare a bunch of good oklahoma teams ponca bishop carrol ark city broken arrow chocta mid west city team from new mexico and many more.

lol ok kansas show some respect for your elders.i know enough about wrestling that i saw how manhattan stacked up a few extra points at state last year, but thats history and this is now. i dont even think your from manhattan kansaswrestler2, your spelling reminds me of someone who dropped out of campus. i may be wrong i was one other time!!

"i know enough about wrestling that i saw how manhattan stacked up a few extra points at state last year"

Thats pretty messed up to say... but hey whatever you have to tell your self
and the thing is people don’t have the slightest clue to the depth of Manhattan’s team last year...
Sure we lost a great group of seniors last year but we did the year before that and the year before and so on, and that has never stopped us from being tough competitors every year

kansaswrestler called u an old man...
haha

as long as you think your tough thats all that matters. hey and just remember when the ref blows the whistle signaling a penalty on your opponent don't forget your manhappiness trademark. stay down!!! thats how this old man remembers the hat at state last year. you tough boys just keep racking them points!!

your right church im not from manhattan ok? but you saying that we stayed down on pupose is a cheap shot old man. and as far as my spelling i dont care

Hoxie isn't the perennial powerhouse they have been. Don't get me wrong, they are still going to be a top 10 mark my words. Schamberger sp? and Baker will be placers again, Baker probably a State Champion. Tim Erwin should also place this year. They will be down again but should be a top 10 team.

Norton without a doubt is one of the top 3 teams in the State. Not sure on how well they stack up this year against the team they had last year, but with only losing Sprigg I don't think they're hurting too bad. I did hear that Logan Keiswetter (4th @ 103 321A) is playing basketball this year?

Is this the same kid who was the JV Heavyweight last year? I am not sure if you can call a JV kid that will make varsity the next yera a team leader Aaron. He might make an impact but he probably won't be a "Team Leader" right away. If I'm not mistaken he's only a sophomore. I don't know very many sophomores that take the lead of a team, usually it's the upper classmen.

I think he's gotten a lot better since last year though, and if memory serves me correctly, he was an all american at cadet freestyle nationals. That speaks for itself.

I've only heard good things and only seen good results. You hear that Steve, stay away from my sister and wrestle well. That's all I'm asking. If you don't listen to me on either one I'm going to take you down my man, big time.

i dont know if this makes steve an even better wrestler but he has a xbox 360....congrats on that big man

Oooh, I hear he planned to miss school today just to play with his new XBox. It might become a bigger distraction for him than your sister billy_mcjackson_ripjc.

haha...no he missed school today cause he went KC...it was yesterday he didnt go because of the new Xbizzle... come on Warry get the story straight

Now I'm jealous, not of his All-American status but rather the XBOX 360, a college kid's dream come true....

Hey, I can't help it if my sources aren't always 100% reliable. Happens to the best undercover agents in the U.S. :-)

Big Steve is for real. If he continues to work as he has, the sky is the limit. Big Steve, Coach Knox will always be in your corner. By the way, if you ever want to come to the City-League and beat up on some the wrestlers here in Wichita, you've got place to stay.

I think I've skimmed through enough of this 6 page discussion to point out something being overlooked.

I want to take nothing away from Goddard, Derby and Maize because they also have exceptional programs and talented coaches. But, I have to say that the Manhattan program is in good hands with Coach Gonazales.

Coach Gonzales is going to be a major factor in helping those Manhattan kids peak at State. He'll turn good kids into state placers and state placers into champs. I think he will instill fairness, discipline and a stong work ethic. He's old school. Exactly what Manhattan kids need.

For the AD and the Manhattan administration to hire Gonzales says a lot about its interest in wrestling. That is rare. Administration support and commitment is what drives winning programs.

Gut... thanks for saying the obvious. I believe this is what the young men on the team are trying to point out. There is allot of tradition and this bunch of guys will not be the ones to let that die under their watch. Gonz will keep up his part or he wouldn't have applied for the job. He knows what’s in the cupboard.

ha never would have thought that cupboard would have been spelt that way

See why you should study in school! I suppose you fell asleep during that lesson.

Red,

Does Meven inherit his spelling from the other side of the genetic tree?

Meven,

http://webster.com is your friend:

Pronunciation: 'spelt'
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin spelta, of Germanic origin; perhaps akin to Middle High German spelte split piece of wood, Old High German spaltan to split

: a wheat (Triticum aestivum spelta) with lax spikes and spikelets containing two light red kernels

Meven,

I just had to ask Jacob and his ma how to spell cupboard. Only one got it right. Guess who.

That's right, me.

And to tell you the truth dad, if it wasn't for the posts above you probably would have gotten it wrong as well. You are probably too old to remember such lessons anyhow.

Hey, I got 3rd (or maybe it was 4th - too old to remember) at the Osborne County spelling bee as a 6th grader.

I wouldn't have mispelled "cupboard" then and wouldn't now either.

Now go help your ma get ready for the tournament tomorrow.......

I doubt you could spell it dad, no matter what place you finished in a spelling bee in a county of population... I don't know... 20. And I'm sure Meven can back me up on this one: Sometimes men of their age (our fathers) tend to be well... forgetful at times.

I could back you up on that one Wacob, I have to say you are probably right.

You are fortunate that your pa proofread your post prior to posting. Saved you from being embarrassed at mispelling the word "forgetful".

Now for the county of Osborne...

It currently has a population of approximately 4100 (2004 estimate).

Oh, and Osborne County had one of the toughest county spelling bee's in the state that year. The defending state champ attended (and won it again).


And since another son has entered the conversation, he needs to go and help his ma too. Or else.

How can one of the smallest counties have such a hard spelling bee dad?...Spelling isn't really that hard.

Stop posting so much, Wagner family. You're creeping the rest of us out. And by creeping the rest of us out, I mean that you shouldn't watch kids shower Mr. Wagner, it's inappropriate. Stop gossiping about my 15 year old sister too, please. That is also something that makes it very creepy around here.

i second that motion with billy mcjackson

haha this isnt about state at all any more...but that is alout of wagners posting...i wonder if they have a spelling forum some where on the internet...ill leave that up to Warry to find out he'll hit us all up with a link ptobly....and then he can tell me how many words i miss spelled

my guess...2 1/2