State Brackets Breakdown

I'm not one to do a lot of trash talking, but:

Here is a breakdown comparison of 4a to 6a.

This is a comparison of losing records and how many matches below 500 participating at the 2002 Kansas State Tournament.

In class 6a, There are 25 wrestlers with losing records with a total of 166 matches below 500.

In class 4a, There are 6 wrestlers with losing records with a total of 25 matches below 500 and the only reason the second number is in double digits is because One wrestler had 17 matches below 500.

There has got to be something done about this. When my 6a friend ask me how many wrestlers did you guys get thru, my reply is Three. He laughs at me and tells me, maybe you should have wrestled tougher competition throughout the year, we are taking 10. I think my friends team won two dual matches all year. This is Pooh Pooh.

Sting I see where you are coming from, but I also totally understand where your friend is coming from. Take Shawnee Heights for example. They qualified 10 wrestlers for state. I know that all of them do not have winning records, but most of them do. Shawnee Heights wrestles the BEST competition week in and week out. They wrestle at Colby Duals, Lees Summit XMas Tournament, Derby, Basehor-Linwood, and Hays. All of these tournaments are extremely hard. Shawnee Heights guys may not have the best records, but I will guarentee you that they have wrestled the best competition. This prepares them for regionals when they compete against other 5A schools that have gone to crappy tournaments just to pad their records.

I have so much repsect for Coach Gonzalez and Coach Sawner because they have their kids ready at the right time and they prepare them for one thing, the state tournament. The best 4 men will make it to state regardless of their records, and that is the case with at least Shawnee Heights. I can't say anything for the other schools because I am not as familiar with them. Good Luck at state Gonzo. I know you guys will be one of the top teams this year.

Matt Gardner

In 5A there is a total of 23 wrestlers with a loosing record that are a total of 126 matches under .500.

Lebowski, Good Point. Something added, Wrestling is a super individual sport and also a sport that teaches the best team ethics. This is why the State Tournament should not only consist of a Individual Title, but also a Team Dual Title of all classes. This (not only) provides a wrestler with a individual Title and Team Title by way of Total points, but also prevents a Team with 3 State champs to place in the top 5 and think that their (TEAM) is one of the 5 best in the State. Also, I understand that the Top 4 wrestlers in every weight and (A class) are probably your top wrestlers, but if a top 6a wrestler had to go thru a 4a bracket at the State tournament, his path would not be laid down on a Red Carpet.

I would also like to comment on Shawnee Heights but not for being just a good team but for being the sportsman they are. And about the 4a thing...
It is a known fact that records don't mean anything. Look at the two KC regionals in 6a. A majority of those schools don't wrestle anyone and go into state with 30 plus wins and a lot of them don't even place. This is not an opinion it is a fact. Records don't mean anything it's the level of competition that matters.

Wrestling4life, What are you trying to say? Everybody knows that anything can happen when you get to state and a lot of times a kid with 30 wins, does not place. Maybe because he had a bad tournament or maybe because the competition was better. How many times does a kid that has 10 or more losses under 500, give any competition to the top six wrestlers in that weight class? Good luck to ALL the wrestlers this weekend. The 4a wrestlers just need more of it.

It's not about having a bad day it's about who you wrestle. If you wrestled against the best all year it will show something in the end. It will also go the other way if you haven't.

Wrestling4life, Please say something we do not already know. I think you and I are on two different subjects.

If 4A is superior to 6A, why is it that at tournaments such as Newton (where the best of 4A and 6A are represented) the 6A schools place 1,2,3. The 4A schools have good kids, but I think that their is a huge gap between the good and bad wrestling schools in the smaller divisions (4A,321A). The good schools can amass lots of wins verse lesser quality opponents. For instance a small school with 9 wrestlers duels Abilene. Those 9 wrestlers did not even win a starting spot, but wrestle varsity. Abilene's wrestlers beef up thier records for this duel. In 6A varsity wrestlers earn a spot with competition in the wrestling room. When 6A schools meet, their are not as many "fish" to beef up their record.

Hows come the number 1 team in 6a manhattan went to the beloit tourny and got beat by both hoxie and clay center. Thanks

6A did not win the Newton tourny, 5A Bishop Carroll won it in a walk. Bishop Carroll is the best team in the state, no doubt. In fact Hutch 6A was second, Ark City 5A was 3rd then came Manhattan, Maize and Clay Center in 6th.

In response to Mr. Palacio, part of the reason Manhattan lost to Clay Center and Hoxie at Beloit was because the team was without two state medalists as well as another ranked wrestler. Also, Manhattan beat Clay Center at Newton, as the previous post mentioned, as well as in a dual 40-30. Clay Center is a great team (there are a number of solid teams in 4A), and I hope they do well this weekend.

It is sad to see so many losing records in 6A, but the reason is not because the quality is any less in this class. It is because the regionals continue to be completely unbalanced.

There are a number of great wrestlers from the Garden City and Wichita North regionals (the top 5 teams were at these two) who will be sitting at home, while kids with records 10 matches below .500 are at state.

I know this comes up all the time, but something really needs to be done. Someone proposed a great idea a year or so ago. Take the top 8 teams coming into the year based on returning state points. Then divide them into the 4 regionals like this: 1&8, 2&7, 3&6, 4&5. Then distribute the rest of the teams geographically. This would help balance the regionals immensely. I really wish the coaches would approach the KHSHAA about this issue (it's a huge problem in 5A, too), but I guess it's easier to be apathetic and settle for poor wrestling at the state tournament.

George porge, I agree with part of what you are saying. I also think the top wrestlers in 6a are probably just as good as other classes, in some cases better. My argument is, from top to bottom 6a and 5a can not wear our wrestling shoes. 6a has 25 kids in the State tourney with losing records. How can we call this a State Championship tournament when 25 kids can not even win half of their matches. Out!

Manhattan, To start off, Everybody has excuses. If you were to ask Clay, they would say we had three kids with the Flu. Second, I agree with the State Tourn. Solution.

My point is that you cannot use one tournament (Beloit), in which a 4A team beat a 6A team to say that one class is better than another...

Exactly Manhattan, I always here that the Kansas State Tourn. is struggling. Kansas Colliseum may not hold the tounament. If they want to fill the seats for all the sessions, a better solution must be (thunked) about. I would take a couple days vacation if I could see the best wrestle the best. I do not care to watch a bunch of sloppy wrestling. Sloppy wrestling is for the parents with unconditional love. The only part that is great about 5a and 6a State Championships is the Finals.

Manhattan and Clay Center are both good teams. It does not matter who is better. I can say only in wrestling would a school Clay Centers size be equal to or better than a huge school like manhattan.

Hands down 4A, 3-2-1A are the best classes in the state. Yes, there are some good kids in 5A and 6A, but you can't even compare 5A and 6A to 4A and 3-2-1A. And the best class is probably 4A.

This seems to be a arguement every year about which class is better. Granted that there are excellent wrestlers in each class. This problem will never be settled until there is a Grand State tournament but then it will still not be settled because there will be winners from all classes. In 4A there are 16 man brackets to qualify but in 5 and 6a there are only 8 man. To win the extra matches is tougher than what it seems. This will go on for as long as the classes are seperated.

Your claim that 1-2-3A is the toughest in the state along with 4A, is one of the most ignorant things that I have ever heard. The top 6, be it 4A, 6A, 5A, 123a, or whatever, are all on an equal plain. Getting to the state tourney is where there is a difference. Yes it is more difficult in 1-4A to make it to state. Because of the number of matches that the wrestlers have to wrestle. But the cream rises to the top, and if you can't cut it, don't complain about it being a 16 instead of 8 man bracket, because only 4 can go.