NCAA ALL Americans by State

Interesting web page:http://www.wrestling411usa.com/NewsDetail.aspx?id=4674

It lists NCAA- AAs by state.


Not a banner year for Kansas, but still tied for 7th with 3AAs.
Not bad.
Note KS tied Iowa (3) and kicked Oklahoma's and Missouri's
tail who had only one. Other surrounding states Colorado and Nebraska have none. KS doesn't have major college wrestling, has a smaller population, is known as a basketball state and still puts out 3x more AAs than Oklahoma. Imagine if we did have a D1 program.



PA, OH, NY, MI, NJ round out the top 5.

The Fan

We had 100% of our qualifiers All American this year...how many states can say that?

Please don't let this information get around. I still like to hear our own people whine about how Kansas wrestling needs to be more like neighboring states in what we do.

The guys that do the most complaining very rarely frequent the college forum… We have our share of BA’s. There is a contingency of people that will always think the grass is greener somewhere else!

I can't wait for Kansas to have a D1 program. The only problem is getting past basketball. It would be cool to see the Iowa teams and Oklahoma teams, missouri, and Minnisota come into the state to compete.

PS. Oklahoma had 2 AA's. They wrestled eachother. Hendricks-Edmond and Perry-Stillwater. I know that Perry went to Blair, but he is from Oklahoma.

I know Perry grew up in Stillwater but i think he lost his residence their the day he signed at Iowa. Anyone whos Uncle is the Coach of a D-1 school and who grew up in the town where his uncle is a coach and doesnt go their can no longer claim they are from their in my opinion. Dont get me wrong, i am an Iowa fan all the way but it was 5 years ago and i still cant beleive he didnt go to Oklahoma State.

Maybe its semantics, but when Perry went to Blair, he left Oklahoma. If it means anything, Jersey gets credit for him. Of course he learned his wrestling in Oklahoma, but he refined his skills at Blair.
Why did he go? I suspect it was to get the best training and the best competition you can get. You have to admit the competion Blair wrestles is incredible for a high school wrestler. A lot of states lose good wrestlers to Blair.

I also think its amazing he went to Iowa. I wonder what John Smith really thinks about that.

Oklahoma =1 All American

The wrestling 411 website did have an asterisk after Perry.

As much as I hate this....How bout a compromise???

Oklahoma AA's= 1.5????

I just don't want to be grouped with Iowa (all in good fun.)

1.5 will work, it still means we have 2 times as many all americans as them which is amazing for a state that is not very good at wrestling and doesnt do their state tournaments the right way(sarcasm apllied here). Anyways still impressive we had more All-Americans than any of our Neighboring states considering we dont have a D-1 program and they all have at least 1 and some have 2.

Ok, 1.5 AAs for Oklahoma. But we have to take .5 away from New Jersey.

Surprised we haven't had OKlahma wrestling fan ring in on this. Oklahoma fan always has a high opinion of his state.

I am Oklahoma fan. I grew up outside of Stillwater and am really pretty bitter about Perry not going to OSU, but what do you do???? I am also a very realistic fan. The rule of thumb around the state is OU and UCO get all the good wrestlers in the state and OSU gets all the good wrestlers from the US. We did finish where we should have. That does not mean that I like it, but that is all we can do. Now as far as Smith not sticking around to shake Perry's hand...well not that big of a deal. What would Gable have done. Not out of hating Perry, but just that competitive. Smith will tell him good job at Thanksgiving.

Go Pokes!!

Thanksgiving?? haha..... It's going to take him that long to get over it??

Does anyone remember if they shook hands when Hendricks beat him two years ago? I wish I had some tape of it....I'll look on youtube!

i imagine he is over it by now. They sort of get used to the ups and downs of the deal. As for shaking hands who cares if they do or they don't. That handslap they all do doesn't ever really qualify as a heartfelt congratulations anyway.

I want to congratulate all three of our All Americans. It is a great achievement to place in the top 8 in the NCAAs, especially considering how few college programs there are today. With so few programs the best of the best are out there wrestling in college today. So great accomplishment to all three of you.

But my question to sportsfan02 on this post is why would as a State should Kansas be so content with 3 out of 80 All Americans and only 1 out of the top 50 that Kansas would stop looking for ways to improve Kansas wrestling by comparing its methods to other successful States? I am not saying that is a bad performance but I do not think this means that Kansas can be complacent either. I think any successful business constantly looks into its operation and one way it does that is by studying the successful things its competitors does. Kansas would be remiss not to study and possibly adopt certain things from other successful wrestling States.

Why would anyone consider Kansas wrestling community leaders like Sean McCarthy and Klint Deere as whining when they suggest that we adopt certain things that are done in other States? Are they whining? I do not think so. I choose to view it that they are trying to honestly make suggestions to help improve Kansas wrestling from things that they have seen work successfully in other states. Successful businesses and organizations are willing to study their competitors and they are willing to change if they determine that they can become even more successful by changing. Many organizations have suggestion boxes and I bet that is part of the purpose of this forum too.

Ok then

My guess is, if you compared our results per capita to any other state we most likely are THE most successful state. So I would make the suggestion that other states should be looking at what we do.


I don't believe we should become complacent either, but I do not see it at as a problem.


Again, I think if we break the numbers down, Kansas would be one of if not THE successful wrestling state. We are never going to compete with the likes of the larger populace states because of numbers, so that shouldn't be the goal.


Whining was probably a poor choice of words on my part but I do get tired of the 'things are better over there' crowd. I don't know what those two individuals have said but most of the people who I see complaining about Kansas wrestling are interested in traveling with their own child first, and finding funding for that traveling second.

sportsfan02, my main point about your original post was the whining reference. I think as a State that you are probably correct that we are one of the most successful per capita and I agree that is a significant accomplishment.

I just don't think is good to discourage those who suggest change even if they are suggesting to change to another States methods. I think Kansas has to be willing to consider change. We still do not have a D-I program in Kansas. I believe it would increase our chances if wrestling would continue to grow in popularity in Kansas. To promote growth Kansas might have to consider some changes. Just think of all the extra opportunity that could open up for Kansas high school wrestlers with even one D-1 team or even an extra D-II team.

Any successful organization is willing to audit itself and be open to change. Most organizations are studying their competitors and might make adjustments to include successful practices of their competitors.

Coach Westfahl, in your coaching career if you had seen a very successful coach and noticed something that he was doing to produce those results wouldn't you have considered including that into your wrestling program? I know that successful college football coaches have done that.

I see the numbers together for per capita population. Good news is this year, KS leads the nation in per All Americans Per capita. But compare qualifiers per capita, we don't as well.

Analysis
AA per capita

KS= 1 per 915K persons in state
OH =1 per 955K persons
IA= 1 per 989K persons
PA= 1 per 1,035K persons
WI= 1 per 1,707K persons
MI= 1 Per 1,804K Persons
IN= 1 Per 2,091K Persons
MN= 1 per 2,566K Persons
NY= 1 Per 2,751K Persons
NJ= 1 per 2,906K persons
OK= 1 Per 3,547K Persons
IL =1 Per 4,254K Persons
MO= 1 Per 5,800K Persons
CA= 1 Per 7,226K Persons

NCAA Qualifiers Per Capita

IA= 1 per 165K
Pa= 1 Per 222K
OH= 1 Per 370K
NJ= 1 Per 396K
IL= 1 per 580K
OK =1 Per 591K Does not Include Mark Perry
WI= 1 Per 657K
MI= 1 Per 773K
MO= 1 Per 829K
MN =1 Per 855K
KS= 1 per 915K
CA =1 per 1,070K

One year doesn't mean much, but i'd expect prior years numbers to be close. My conclusion is KS is developing its top wrestlers, but the depth does not follow like some of the top wrestling states (OH, PA, IA, NJ).

Population is somewhat relevant statistically, but still you have to discount it somewhat. California has 36m, so thats a lot of people that never have heard of wrestling nor less participate in it.

Nowak, I stole something from everyone I ever watched wrestle that was worth a darn. I got my turk series from Russ Helickson, and learned much of what I know from Oklahoma State people, but what does that mean. I coached football and wrestling for 29 years but never went to get something just because someone famous did it or because they were doing it somewhere else. If it made sense for us then I used it or brought it back but I don't look at any particular state or program as the end all or be all of technique. Wrestling is always a borrowed skill, and there is nothing really new in any sport just variations on a theme or an idea here or there but it has to fit your system whatever that may be. I have never been jealous of other states or programs just curious about things I saw here or there. Shoot I learned more trying to keep up with Wayne Jackson and his kids than I did fromm anywhere else. I just think that sometimes we are hard on ourselves here in the Sunflower State. We are better than we think we are or I guess I should say you all are better than you think you are. There are just a lot of hosses out there you know.

Tell you what if you really want to help Kansas Wrestling then stop the progression of wrestling becoming a rich mans sport. Instead of the privledged few being able to afford summer programs and National Juniors, start working to make it more affordable for all kids in all programs. To me that is the biggest single thing threatening our sport in Kansas. We are beginning to look like the tennis crowd. Those with the biggest pocketbooks have by far the most opportunities. That is a very bad thing unless you are one of those privilaged few.

I couldn't agree more. First we started with the headgear requirement for all ages, then we had the attempt to have all coaches background checked. One can only imagine how much that would have cost clubs, which would have had to be passed onto it's members. Tournament entry fees continue to spiral up especially when our state fee is raised. Now we are hearing rumors of a two piece singlet requirement to prevent skin diseases. Those two piece singlets run in the neighborhood of $100.00 each. I don't know where it stops!

I can see where the cost factor would be a significant barrier for many kids in wrestling. The cost of tournaments, food, gasoline, possibly rooms at some weekend tournaments adds up. This does not even include the costs of the summer and National junior programs which I imagine could even be more since the travel costs are probably more and maybe the tournament fees too. It does not include costs for extra wrestling camps and training or strength training that many of our wrestlers go to. I am sure you are both correct that this does make it very difficult for many families. Many of families with financial difficulties have trouble even getting their kids to the events because they might be working on weekends or during the evenings.

I see it in other sports too. I do not think this problem is unique to wrestling. Extra costs are there also for sports like soccer, basketball, baseball and track & field. It seems to be the trend in our society for this one sport emphasis year round and the cost does not seem to be an obstacle for some families. You are right this makes it very difficult for a lot of families who can't afford all these extra costs to compete. The only way to include them would be to help them with these financial costs. I think our Kansas USAW group does that but I do not know to what extent. I am sure there are many in the middle income group who could also use help with these costs but who probably do not qualify and choose to just not participate.

I can speak of first hand experience about the cost of youth wrestling. I have an 8 year old who I try to take to a tournament every weekend. I estimate it costs me $40 to $50 per tournament. Entry fee is $15 give or take a few bucks.
Gate fee for family $5. Food at concession stand $15 bucks. Fuel for getting their $10. I think I'm up to 14 tournaments.
So thats at least $600 bucks. Traveled to one National tournament so add in a couple plane tickets, hotel and national tournament fee another $600 bucks. Add in Singlet, head gear, shoes, wrestling card, club fee and I'm up to $1500 this year. Its crazy, but I guess I'm one of those crazy parents that pays the fee to get my kid ahead.

My son has a friend who goes to practice, but parents won't pay the money for tournaments. So he loses out. A lot of kids get eliminated this way. Maybe they catch up in middle school. It is a money game, but what do you do?

I agree with the comment, a lot of other sports are just as money intensive and many are worse. I'm getting my daughter into tennis, and tennis is a wonderful sport. I personally play twice a week. But you nailed it when you talk about tennis as sport where only the priveledged excel. I teach my daughter tennis and get her to some group lessons. I can't afford to get her private lessons. You're talking $60 an hour. Wrestling is not so bad and who can afford that. The tennis crowd is totally different from the wrestling crowd and I've been around both. You see big pickup trucks at the wrestling tournament and the tennis tourney, its mercedes and volvos.

LOL yeah it is a really different bunch. I am really concerned about the cost of going to junior nationals and a lot of the high level clubs around that you almost have to get kids into to have a level playing field when they are in high school. I don't know what nationals costs now but it used to be a ton. Way too many coaches on that deal and they are getting a fairly free ride while the kids pay through the nose. I coached a lot of those kids who were far to poor to ever dream of doing those things. I paid for a lot of them to do those things and it almost broke me then and it was probably illegal to do it anyway but what are you going to do when a kid wants to try it and wants to be competive.