An old problem is starting to raise its’ head at our Kids tournaments, that is … too many people mat side. Our rules only allow for two coaches to be mat side while a bout is in progress. We have always had too many teammates along the edges but now we seem to have a large number of adults imposing on the mats.

We require coaches to be certified at our State tourney series. But, ALL coaches must have a USAW Coaches Membership card to be mat side at any sanctioned tourney.

One might argue that some of these adults are not coaching but merely cheering and supporting from a very close range. I suggest, that if they are hollering, “HALF, SHOOT THE HALF” they are performing the function of a coach. Even if they are not “coaching” then they are interfering with that card carrying, and in most cases, certified coach. This brings in a bit of a liability issue to the tournament and the club. I don’t think any Grandparent, sibling, or Auntie would intentionally endanger their loved one, but that is what they are doing!

I’ve been doing this for a while and have heard most of the excuses for being on the edge of the mat. Kids don’t need a dozen people, often screaming different things, at the side of the mat. My own kid could hear his Mom yelling at him while she was seated in the top row.

This will probably be a “can-of-worms” but please find a seat in the bleachers. I have heard some of you scream and many of you will be just as effective from there!

Randy---
Excellent point...As a former member of the media (newspaper sports editor and TV videographer), I would go to area tournaments and take pictures for the paper...

I had to always laugh, especially at many of the bigger tournaments, including state, when parents would come matside w/ their camera and say something to the effect of "I'm a photographer for such-and-such newspaper"...What was even funnier was that they would be taking pictures w/ a crappy instamatic or disposable camera...

Part of the reason there are too many people is that many of the so-called "security staff" at tournaments don't have the balls to go up to people to ask them to move...If they do, many of the people just move away for a moment, then return after the "security" has left...

Tournaments should use some sort of highly visible pass, such as a leg/arm band I have to have to get on the field at Chiefs games, for all coaches, workers and media...

And you can limit the number of passes given out, especially to coaches...First, they should provide their current card and photo ID to tournament officials to get a armband...Second, you could limit the number of passes to say only 1 pass per 5 or 10 wrestlers entered...As far as the media, they should be able to provide some sort of media credentials (along w/ a photo ID) when they arrive at the meet...Another thing, a legitimate newspaper photographer will have a decent 35mm camera (another clue)...

Anyway, it's getting ridiculous, not only at the kids tourneys, but at the high school level as well...

How many times do the announcers need to announce "take a knee if you are at matside" during the course of a normal tournament. I would guess at least twice per hour this announcement is made. And either those at matside don't listen or don't care.

Those of us that DO stay in the stands would like to see kids wrestle.

Randy, thanks for opening this can of worms because this problem needs to be addressed.

I agree with you and there should not be more than 2 coaches mat side. I feel that if you do not have your coaches card you have no business being on the mat. If you have trust in your coaches then there is no reason to be down next to them, confusing the kids especially when the coaches are doing their jobs (trying to coach). I also think that at more of the tourney's the schools should require coaches bands like they do at subs and districts. This would help the officials know who is to be down on the mat coaching.

As I recall, the upcoming Topeka tournament is usually very bad about keeping matside clear. I hope that they can take extra measures to avoid this same problem this year.

Although I understand the need to limit crowds at matside, I don't like the 1 band per 5 wrestlers option. Yesterday we had 5 wrestlers entered in the Salina tournament and were fortunate enough to have a band for each coach attending, because at one time we had 3 wrestlers wrestling at the same time. Unfortunately I don't have the solution for this problem, but it's something to consider in figuring out how to limit the crowds. Thanks, Salina, for your great tournament, hospitality, coaches room (ours rated it A+), and for giving us enough coaches bands.

This is a great topic and a very big problem. Some of the solutions mentioned above are very good ones but almost impossibe for the little tourn. in high school gyms. I am sure everything has been tried at least once, but here is my idea. Post huge signs at the entrance of the tournament, around matside, in the weigh in room saying "Anyone around the mat when not warming up or wrestling will be given a mark of some kind. After receiving two marks you will be asked to leave and not finish the tourn." I know this seems very strict and hopefully the bathrooms won't be overloaded from individuals trying to scrub the mark off, but at least they will be off matside. Something needs to be done about this serious problem. Try it. Coach Rees

That is where they mess up. Do it a couple of times and the word would spread fast. I have never seen signs posted where all the parents can visually be reminded throughout the day that their child will be removed from the Tourney. This has been a problem since the begining of Kansas kids. If we are going to make it better or fix it, we have to be strict.

Another point to be made: While I agree that non-coach adults should not be matside, I think one of the neatest things about our sport is seeing 4 or 5 of a kid's teammates sitting matside warming him up beforehand, cheering for him and high-fiving him when it's over (win or lose). This is particularly important to first or second year wrestlers. My boy has been at it for 5 years, and the only thing he can do at a tournament to make me mad is not be attentive when a teammate is "up". If it really is about the kids, lets somehow not overlook that comraderie. It's one of the great qualities the kids learn through wrestling.

I'd rather have my son setting along the mat watching the wrestling and learning. He knows that he needs to be watchful for the wrestlers coming his way. He has probably learned more than I know by just sitting and watching other wrestlers. Too often you see kids running around with no clue of what is going on in the gym.

Team spirit is great and I think high fiving or maybe making a kid feel better after his loss is also great. This can all be done in the stands and if everyone was where they were supposed to be than the kids wouldn't have to go matside and watch their upcoming opponents, they could see them from the stands. Coach Rees

Sometimes I don't think it is so bad to have people at matside especially later in the day durning the semi-finals, third place and final matches. The reason I feel that way is because it makes it more exciting for them in watching the wrestlers that they are interested in. They normally will stay there only for a few matches around the match that their wrestler is in. As long as they are sitting and out of the wrestlers way and not obstructing the view for most of the seated area, I don't think it is too bad. No one should stand in front of the seated areas by matside. I think it is okay to make noise and offer encouragement but people should avoid coaching their wrestler. Most of the time, I doubt that the wrestlers hear you anyway with that headgear on and all the other gym noise taking place. Noise is a part of most action sports.

I think anything we can do to make it more exciting and enjoyable for the spectators including grandparents, parents and teammates is good for the sport because it increases fan and participant interest in the sport. The more general interest we have, the more the sport participation and ultimately our college programs will grow. I think it is like any sport, the closer you are to the action, the more exciting the experience is for you. Coach Rees, my experience has been that kids don't really sit and watch that much from the stands. A lot of times they are playing with their electronic games or are roaming around the complex somewhere outside the gym. It is rare to see a winning or losing wrestler come back to the stands to receive acknowledgment from his teammates after a match.

I know people in the first few rows complain often about it but they are in for a long day in those seats because people are going to be coming in and out of the gym all day. The tournaments are just too long for most people to sit those seats for the entire day. I have had my view blocked before by people in front of me in the stands too.

I have never been involved in managing a tournament so I could be dead wrong about this but I sure do feel more supportive and into it during my son's final matches if I'm sitting at matside.


I know it is probably almost impossible to allow people around the mats during the first half of the meet when the gyms are packed and there are so many people in the gym. But later in the day when the gym is clearing out, I like it when you can get matside as long as you do not obstruct the action and are sitting. It is often a long day and it is good to get out of those stands. Anymore if it is a big enough facility I try to stay out of them as much as possible, not at matside but around the complex.

... a can of worms, as predicted! Some excellent thoughts are being presented. But a couple of other points.

I feel fans can be just as supportive from the bleachers and that is where they belong. Perhaps wrestling is the only sport where fans can get literally, right on top of the action. In middle school, high school, and beyond fans are resticted to the stands. Even team mates are restricted. Think about other sports where you are required to sit behind a fence. Are fans or parents less supportive in baseball, football, tennis, etc.?

Next, the size of the wrestling surface also presents a few challenges. Logistically, a 15' x 15' mat (8 and unders), which realistically only has one side of access, needs to be kept clear. Where do you draw the line? We all know, that given an inch, most will take a mile! All sanctioned tournaments are required to have a 3' safety area around the mat. If that area is full of spectators then its' safety is compromised. I have seen adults, in a push up position, literally 4 or 5' onto the mat. Granted their toes are behind the line, but that's about all.

A word about team mates matside. Just because they are mat side, does not mean they are truly supportive or intent on learning other skills.

About family members taping at mat side. From my perspective as a coach, that is probably the worse possible angle to film from. I realize that not all video is being shot for the purpose of technique development, but the quality of the video is improved if you are further away. In fact from my perspective, sitting on the top row in the bleachers opposite the mat, give you the best angle.

Finally a real can-of-worms! If the local fire chief, would walk into our kids tourneys, they would likely shut us down. Few gyms are ideally suited for wrestling. Traffic flows for spectators, giving workers access with the beverage cart, allowing bracket runners and updaters an opportunity to work, are all concerns. This is a safety issue!!!

Just a few thoughts ... what are yours!

I'm not saying in any way that proponents of a clear floor are wrong. I just want to reiterate how important I think it is to the kids to have a few of their buddies right there during the action. I may be wrong. I just think it's cool to see the kids learning to root for each other. I don't think a young kid can do it from the stands.

In any event, I agree that adults should not be matside early in the day. The "clear floor" argument carries much more weight at tournaments that charge admission to spectators.

I have been in both places, on the mat and in the stands. I am a certified coach, but always a mother, who had sense enough to know that my child knew more then me and that someone would be a better coach for him. I still help with the novice kids when needed. But as a parent in the stands, another problem to address other then parents at matside it is coaches. When 2 or more coaches stand together at mat side their is people in the stands that can't see. The best I have seen for seeing from the stands and getting parents to stay there is Holtons sub-district last year with the warm up area on the sides not in front of the stands. I agree something needs to be done, but no one will come up with the perfect solution, but keep trying.

Randy:

I'm probably picking the wrong topic to put forth my thoughts on this because I do understand that there are safety issues and ideally you want to provide a non-obstructed view for all fans in the stands. I also understand that that if you give an inch people will take a mile. Where do you draw the line? I would say the 3'-5' safety area around the mat that you mentioned. Again I realized this is easier said than done as far as enforcing that safety area.

I do believe however that we need to make our tournaments more enjoyable for both spectators and participants. I believe this can happen if they are closer to the actual action that they want to see, there are shorter waits between matches and that the length of the normal wrestling day is basically cut about in half. If we could work towards those things, I believe we would begin to see greater interest and participation in the sport which in the long run would lead to more popularity, media coverage and maybe eventually more college programs.

A lot of times you are situated in the stands so far away from the action of your wrestler's mat that you have a poor viewing experience from the stands. You might have a lot of disinterested individuals and other clubs around you and between the action that you have been waiting hours to view. I'm not going to sit in the stands for two to three hours in the opposite back corner of the gym from the mat that my son is about to wrestle in and not try to get a closer better view. In doing that it is my personal responsibility to have the courtesy not to obstruct someone else's view. I'm also not going to scream thru all those disinterested people on chance that my son might hear me trying to give him some positive encouragement.

The basic differences with the sports that you mentioned is that their viewing venues are set up for each particular sport (and one event taking place-normally the game) and therefore more focused on the action. Also the events do not last as long as a youth wrestling tournament. I think of a good wrestling day as arriving at the tournament at about 7:30 and leaving by 3PM. That is a good day! How many football, baseball or basketball games have you been to that last that long? It has been suggested to me that if I don't like these long days, I should consider getting my son out of wrestling because that is the way wrestling is. Do we really want to drive people away just because they think that the 7:30 to 3PM and beyond normal tournament day is too long for both spectators and participants? I hope not because the sport will never grow to be more popular with the general population if that is the attitude we take.

I believe we need to look at possible solutions like the split tournament formats (Where the younger wrestlers would wrestle in the morning and the older wrestlers in the afternoon). Mike Juby stated that it would probably cut the wrestling day in half for about 80% of the people in another topic post. That would make more a faster paced, more enjoyable viewing experience and shorter day for most people. The problem of this topic would not be as big of a problem because you would not have as many people in the gym at one time and therefore you could situtate yourself easier to view the actual mat you wanted to see. That is the situation at most tournaments later in the day when the crowd starts to thin out and I believe it is easier for everyone left to comfortably situated themselves for a good view of their wrestler's final matches.

Huskerfan, Let's start off by saying, I agree with you on some things. Like being closer to the action makes it more exciting, but how exciting is it for the people that can't get close to the mat like, mom who is guarding the cooler or grandad, who is scared that he might fall down the bleachers. If you want to make it more exciting for all, move everyone from matside to the stands. The grandparents, instead of worrying about who is going to block their view when their grandchild hits his first double leg and also constantly yelling at the coaches to "take a knee, I can't see." will be able to sit and relax and when their grandchild comes to them for acknowledgement, they can say "that was a super double leg Johnnie".

Yes, your right about kids not paying attention when their in the stands, they are playing video games or goofing off. But what you fail to see is that they are doing the same thing on matside or in the walking area around the gym. Only a few kids, usually the older ones (but not all) are paying attention to the match itself. This would be the same scenario in the stands.

I understand your concerns, but you have complimented our argument in everything you have said. When I attend the big high school or college events like the Basehor Linwood Classic, Newton or the Dual tonight between Labette and Neosho (Go Cards!) The experience of wrestling is like no other sport. Guess where I will be sitting? Later Coach Rees

The split Tournament works well only because you are reducing the amount of kids at the tourn. at one time and because it only happends once or twice a year. What do think about the volunteer coach that has to be there for both tournaments away from his family or job. This will not work! If you want to help the tournament run smoother get eveyone away from the mats. This helps the bracket people get where they are going, helps the ref worry about one thing (the match), table workers can concentrate on who is wrestling next instead of who is not wrestling next. Coaches will know where their kids are instead of the table workers waiting three min. because the coach can not find him. I can go for days...... There has to be an answer. Later, Coach Rees

Coach Reeves:

How long are you going to be at your dual tonight? I doubt you will be there 8 to 10 hours. How crowded is that gym going to be? I doubt it is going to be as packed as youth tournaments are at the start of the day. I've been to high school duals before and I've never been there that long or had any trouble getting myself in position to view the match I wanted to see. Normally there is only one or two mats going on at the same time at duals that I have been to. This is a lot easier viewing for the half-packed gym at best.

Even if you are willing personally to sit there far from the action of the mat that you are interested in for 8 to 10 hours, let's face it you are a wrestling devotee. We do not have to hook you or me now for that matter on the sport. Do you think that the majority of the sport viewing public though shares your view that the experience of wrestling is like no other sport. I don't think so, otherwise it would not be wrestling programs being cut back at colleges to make room for other sports. I'm beginning to share your view but only because my son is having success in it the last six years and thus have now had the opportunity to grow into my love for the sport. Believe if he had not shown an aptitude for it those first two years you would not have had to twist my arm to get him involved in a new one at that time. Most people new to the sport and with other sport experiences are not going to be drawn in by 8 to 10 hour days and two to three hour waits between matches in these small sardine packed gyms.

I know the split tournament format probably does add to the tournament day for the volunteer coaches and tournament workers. Mike Juby also stated that as the problem as to why it has been slow to take hold. I don't have a solution unless coaches might just go to the morning session with the younger kids if this is a problem for them. They might be able to have other coaches or Dads such as myself to cover the 2nd session for older kids who probably don't need as much coaching. I occassionally do that now for my sixth grade son and I never wrestled. I don't think he always needs the most experienced coach at his matches now. I did recently get a Bronze card so I could do this. Tournament workers normally only have their one tournament a year so I don't think it would be so bad for them. My main thing is I think it can be a more enjoyable experience if it was a shorter faster paced day and we were all closer to the action.


If controlling the crowd at these packed small gyms during these long tournament days were really possible, I have to believe it would be being done on a regular basis by now. Let's face it, most facilities we use just are not big enough to properly handle all these people. I really believe we need to consider trying a new way.