Mike,

I do not have problem with a vote of the membership. But you would need to change the Kansas Kids Wrestling Bylaws First. I think it says one vote per club at the state meeting. It would be a terrible mess to get anything voted on or done at these annual meetings if you let the entire membership vote on every issue. That is why each club sends a representative. Although, not all clubs attend - therefore they do not get a vote if they are absent. There is plenty of information avaiable ahead of time and each club can send there representative to the meeting. Would your proposed vote for be for every kid or one vote for every family with kids wrestling. I am not a betting man but I have been informally polling parents of my club who have high school wrestlers and 6 and under kids currently. I haven't found the support that you have for this issue.

Coach Sean

READ THE MEMBER SECTION AT THE END OF THIS
CHARTERED CLUBS ONLY ONE VOTE PER CLUB. THAT VOTE WAS 70% APPOSED 30% FOR 6 & UNDER STATE TOURNAMENT

SECTION I: BY-LAWS ARTICLE I – NAME, ADDRESS, FISCAL YEAR1. 1. Name – The name of the organization shall be United States of America Wrestling Association – Kansas, Inc. Kids Division. In addition, the organization may conduct its affairs under such trade name(s) as may be approved by its Executive Council, including but not limited to the name USAWA-Kansas Kids.2. 2. Address – The principal office of the organization in the state of Kansas shall be located at the current Executive Director's address.3. 3. Fiscal Year – The fiscal year of the organization shall begin on the first (1st) day of September in each year.ARTICLE II – OBJECTIVESThe objectives of USAWA-Kansas Kids shall be:1. 1. To create opportunities in wrestling for competitors in the 16 and under age groups along with their coaches and teachers, and to encourage their continued participation in the sport as they advance beyond this level.2. 2. To place control and direction of the USAW-Kansas wrestling program in the hands of those who are working in the program.3. 3. To help develop responsible wrestling administrators from the ranks of the USAW-Kansas wrestling programs on the local, state and national levels who will provide responsible leadership and direction to their membership.4. 4. To develop an attitude of sincere concern among all USAWA-Kansas wrestling coaches towards the improvement of all levels and aspects of wrestling from elementary through Olympic levels of competition.5. 5. To provide channels of communication within Kansas and between the various states, furthering the exchange of ideas and experience, both favorable and unfavorable, so USAW-Kansas wrestling programs in any area can learn from, profit from, and expand upon the efforts of such programs in all other areas.6. 6. To assist in developing strong and enthusiastic USAW-Kansas wrestling programs throughout Kansas, and to assist in those activities which can best be developed on a statewide basis.7. 7. To develop an attitude of unity within the state of Kansas toward program development and achievement and to increase the positive attitudes of educators, wrestlers and the general public toward the art of science of wrestling.8. 8. To provide channels for democratic representation in the various national organizations and national activities which involve the wrestlers and coaches of this age group.9. 9. To establish general patterns of organization and objectives within the state of Kansas, providing continuity of effort as wrestlers and coaches step forward into more advanced phases of wrestling and in turn are succeeded by newcomers to the USAWA-Kansas program.10. 10. To provide a statewide newsletter and other centrally produced publications of benefit to USAW-Kansas programs in all areas.ARTICLE III – MEMBERS1. 1. Chartered Clubs – USAWA-Kansas Kids shall include Kansas clubs, known as chartered clubs sanctioned by USA Wrestling, which meet the prescribed requirements as follows:a. a. A chartered club in USAWA-Kansas Kids must be open to all persons active in the advancement of Kansas wrestling and willing to accept the objectives outlined in this constitution.b. b. A club may become chartered by filing an application and paying the annual fee, if any, to USAW-Kansas, Inc.2. 2. Voting Membersa. a. Each chartered club whose charter was issued by USAW-Kansas, Inc. during the previous fiscal year (September 1 - August 31) and whose USAWA-Kansas Kids dues, if any, were paid for that year is a voting member.b. b. Each voting member shall have only one vote.

Very well said Mrs. Lemon what people are forgetting is that we are talking about 4-6 year olds they are still babies. Let them have fun and maybe they will still be in the sport at 16, It seems to me that a majority of parents don't want their 6U kids at state, It seems to me like a few ultra competitive people are trying to push this issue and it's ridiculous. Could you imagine the chaos if every cardholder in kansas had a vote on every issue, the whole organization would fall apart, what a ridiculous idea. In baseball 6 year olds are t-ball, in my city they don't even keep score, everyone gets to bat 3 times, have fun and learn how to play, wrestling should be the same what's the point in winning state at six if your done with the sport at 12.

if the folks in charge do not think 6U's are ready for the "Big Dance" then why allow them wrestle at 8u at all? How do you seperate maturity and talent? Just because they qualify does NOT mean they are mature enough to handle it!
Also, what about the 8u kids who are sitting at home on their big day because the 6u are allowed to wrestle up.
a comment about the 6u state tournament; it is a good tournament and at least a good idea, but it in no way, shape or form takes the place of the topeka tournament. Most brackets are huge (32/64 man) and it is very difficult to place. We had a little guy (43#)in our club who qualified on Saturday for state and did not even place on Sunday. Two years ago another one of our guys had to wrestled 8 matches and placed fifth. All in one day! My son wrestled 7 matches and did not place two years ago. That same year he placed third at Wichita classic.
My son is in his first year of 8u and I think 6u should be allowed to enter the State tournament. Just know your kid. Some kids are ready at 6 and some may be ready at 12 or 13. I think it is wrong to generalize and say that ALL 6u are not ready. And I will say it again, if that is what the authorities think then why do they allow them in at all? It is a little schizophrenic in my humble opinion.

It sounds like the 6U championships need to be done away with also then. I don't think this issue will ever pass because there is not enough support for it. most parents are sensible enough to know that 4-6 year olds need to have fun and not be pushed into an ultra competeive tournament at a young age. we can argue this for ever but it's a mute point because it gets voted down by a large margin year after year.

bubowski wrote:
most parents are sensible enough to know that 4- 6 year olds need to have fun and not be pushed into an ultra competeive tournament at a young age.

Then why do we let them in the state tournament?????
If this topic is passed over at the state body meeting because it requires so much time for discussion then it seems that it IS a popular and not "mute topic". Maybe a special committee needs to be formed to develop some feasible solutions and/or ideas.

Maybe we shouldn't let them at the state tournament I know Missouri doesn't. There are a handful of kids at 6 that are mature for their age and can handle it, but mostly this is an ego trip for parents I see it all the time, dads pushing their kids to the point of tears it's ridiculous. It won't hurt a youngster to wait until they are 7 to compete maybe they will appreciate it more. If you want it so bad start your own club then you will have a vote on the issue. If this passes a lot of 4-6 year olda are going to be pushed to hard by their coach-dads, just look at open tournaments now the dad slash coach at the 6U mats act like fools, I know I have one on my team and I don't even let him coach his little one anymore. This system has worked for years but now their are a bunch of parents that think they have 6 year old olympians
and they need a state medal. Is this for the parent or the kid. I will always vote no on this and the parents on our club support me 100%. Give them a chance to mature a little and have fun, remember it's for them not for you.

bubowski, not every coach/dad is on a ego trip or acting like fools matside.The attack on anyone supporting this issue is pretty small minded. If we ever meet you can explain to my son why he dose not deserve to be at state. Good luck.
Jon Murray
PWC

The answer is simple he's not old enough, wait till next year young man and make it in 8U, work hard in the off season learn the sport and become better. You have many more years to make it. Your whole wrestling career is ahead of you, go to state have your dad take you down on the floor and find out what it's all about and next year you will be better prepared and hopefully you will do well.

I sit here reading that there are a bunch of parents who think they have 6 yr old olympians. Maybe some 6's are having fun competing. I also run a split practice and tonight was game night. We play dodgeball. My 6 year old pulled off his shirt and was in the middle of our advanced boys getting hit and loving it. Dont assume to say that all little kids are wrestling because their parents make them. My son has been matside since he was one and being rough housed by older boy's and has always loved it. Im sorry you believe me to be trying to make olympians that is not my intention. Even if 6's were allowed next year he will be in 8's so thats not the point. I dont believe he would win state(dont tell him)I just know he likes to compete at everything. Simple things like 1st to put on his seatbelt. Where did I go wrong, I've pushed him to far.
Jon Murray
PWC

"Last week, my 6 year old son lost a very close match and so was a little teary eyed at the end. While I was telling him what a good job he did, the other parent was congratulating his son on "making that boy cry". My son should be having fun. He should not be worried about winning or getting a medal."


Unfortunately, there are a few fools to give us "6 & under parents" a bad name. But. . .there are those of us who are trying to teach our young wrestlers; sportsmanship(win or lose), and a few life skills. We also do NOT promote the talk that the discribed above parent did. There are also ALOT of idiots in the upper age divisions who tell their wrestlers much worse things.In every age division there are these extremists. So do not assume that all 6&under parents are out to "live through them" in wrestling.
I wanted to bring this up. How many of these 12, 14, & 16&under State Champs or even State Placers were once 6 & under? Did they have the excitement about winning that JMurray has talked about??? I bet they did. Or at least the champs and placers I know did and still do.

Grizzlyfan,

I do realize we have some parents and coaches in all age divisions that get carried away. Trust me - I can bring the intensity to the mat. We have a unwritten rule that we try to have someone else besides dad, mom, and/or close relative in the corner during match time. It doesn't always work out if we have multiple matches going on and we are scrambling to get a coach matside - but for the most part it helps keep the personal family stuff out. From a technical standpoint I know my son is more likely to take my advice in a practice environment rather than in the heat of battle. Generally, this holds true with other kids during a match. I can be all the way on the other end of the gym when my son is wrestling and I'll bet he can still hear me. If he can not hear me everyone else in the gym can. I think he needs speakers in his head gear - like they do with NFL football quarterbacks. That may not be a good idea - because sometimes he and some of our other coaches give me a dirty look after a match - mainly after a loss. What's their problem? I know he was trying but those simple mistakes were killing me. I am not going to let my son drive at the age of 14 just because he wants to or he thinks it is fun. I am still apposed to the 6 & under state. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect both views. You all know mine. I hope we have enough hard drive and the computer doesn't crash - with all these posts

Coach Sean

I agree. However I must say that any poll conducted on the internet is not scientific. If someone really wants to do an accurate poll, well you would have to first obtain a list of all of the members in Kansas, Pick a random sampling more than 100 and call them up. This cost a lot of money and is very time consuming I know. But it is the only way to scientifically do it. People who are obsessed with wrestling (like me) are the ones that check the forum everyday. Most people in the wrestling community do not. If you did a scientific poll, I think you would be surprised at the results.

where is mike juby in all this what does he think about this

It seems that this subject of 6 and under is and will always be a topic of intrest. It seems very simple on how a person can deal with this. If they are good enough, then throw them to the wolves and let them fight it out. This may seem harsh and it probably is. I have done this with my son. At 5 he qualified, at 6 he placed. Yes, I want it for him but I as a parent can only give him traning and support. If the kid wants it then he or she will do what it takes to make it. If it is the parents that want it and not the kid then it will be noticed on how far they go. State is a big word in the wrestling family. It means the world to alot of kids and probably too much to parents. But, the kids that get a warm feeling when it is said are the ones that will be the ones to make it. Just one opinion.

Bubowski
Been thinking on this topic you wrote most 6 year olds just roll around on the mat and cry. You also wrote you would'nt want 6's running off weight while coaches were screaming at them. You wrote its just an ego trip for a 6 to be at state that they arnt ready. Your suggestion on telling my son why he didnt deserve to wrestle at state was he wasnt ready, not his time, improve learn more. Then you wrote when my son was 6 he made it to state. How could someone so opposed to 6's at state ever have put that kind of "pressure" on his own son?
I feel as though out of 1600 6's we could come up with 16 wrestlers in each weight to make for competitive wrestling.
If all 6's are novice and should wrestle on sunday at novice tournaments than we should also elimanate them from our saturday evevnts and only let in older wrestlers we feel have enough experiance. Does that sound fair to anyone?
It sure dos'nt to me. But I may just be on an "ego trip". We all have our own oppions yours seems to be conflicting.
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

I said some kids are able to handle it but they are few and far between. I felt my son was ready at six and he was he made it to state. Most kids are not ready, Please read the entire post before commenting onwhat I wrote. If your six year old is ready take him to state, if he's not leave him at home. How did your club vote on this issue when it was brought up. I have never forced my son to cut weight if he does it he does it on his own. Most six and under matches are more comic relief than wrestling, The bottom line is as a whole they don't need to be there, If they are good enough let them make it in 8U. I'm sorry your six year old can't wrestle 8U and make it. If he could you wouldn't be so supportive of this issue. I feel I have brought my son through wrestling the right way, He's a young 12 now and doing well 18-4, I have never put undue pressure on him to win, but this is what will happen with a bunch of inexperienced wrestling parents throwing 4-6 year olds out there. You see it at every tournament, we don't need it at state, I tell my parents that their first and second year wrestlers are better of wrestling on Sunday, Do they all listen- NO they don't but that's their choice. The state tournament is already crowded enough and long enough without adding to it by allowing 6U to wrestle. It seems like you have a problem with me for stating my opinion, oh well, Ill live and I will continue to vote no on this as long as I have a vote, which will be until my son is unable to wrestle in kids anymore. If you poll most coaches and club directors they will vote this down by a large margin as they have done every year( last year it was 70% no). Live with the rules the way they are your boy has a long wrestling career ahead of him he has many more years to make it to state.

Maybe all the crybabys are people like bubowski and others that are not seeing the fun in wrestling in the biggest tournament in the state. Get off your high horses and get the chip off your shoulder and let these kids wrestle and have fun. If they cry they cry sometime somewhere they will have to get past that.

bubowski
my 12 year old never wanted to try for state when he was 6. My 6 year old wanted to try state just not in the 8& under. As I stated in a earlier post he will be moving up next year and I know 6's would not be added this year so this is not for his benifit. Next year I will vote for 6's. Was tied up coaching football and did'nt attend state meeting last fall.I do live with the rules but its my right as an American to talk of change. By the way I have no more problem with your opinion though you do mine.
Jon Murray
PWC

I have been sitting back a reading these posts and realize there are a lot of passionate wrestling people in Kansas. I have always voted against six and under for state because it always includes talk of reducing weight classes for fourteen and sixteen year olds. A perfect example of this is a kid from our team he has been in wrestling for 8 years and is dedicated to the sport. He has been a 4 time state placer and is a freshman in high school now. He weighs only 82lbs and was forced to compete at 103 in high school. He told me the other day he will be glad when kids start so he can wrestle people his size again. If Kansas can find a facility big enough to keep the 14 and 16 weight classes as they are now and add six and under I would vote for it in a minute, but Topeka is not big enough for this and I would hate to take oppurtunities away from kids like the on mentioned above. Until a different and bigger facility is found I will keep voting no. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I don't think it is right to take away oppurtunities from one group to give to another. Do six year olds deserve to be there, yes they do but under the current arrangement it is not feasable to include everyone. Maybe we need to start looking at different facilities to hold the state tournament. If anyone has a solution please post it and let the body vote on it.

Tom Baughman
Pleasant Ridge Wrestling