It looks like your son was a very accomplished wrestler. Did they have 6U at state when he wrestled?

This poll is not scientific because of the following reasons: 1. Not everyone who is a member of the wrestling community participates on the wrestling forum. Take the number of people signed in to this forum minus the number of people who are involved in wrestling (ie wrestlers plus parents and coaches). Is the number the same? What percentage of those people signed on to the forum participate regularly? 2. No poll conducted via internet is scientific because you have to factor in computer usage and availability. That is why you will see every news channel or show that holds a vote (like CNN does) say "this poll is not scientific" as a disclaimer. There is more but I won't bore you. The best way to make sure you have a balanced poll would be to have a phone vote with randomly selected members.

Youth Sports
Quick Facts

Age in which children first have the capability to understand social dynamics of competitive sports: 8 years old

· Average stint in one sport : 5 years

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, National Council of Youth Sports, NCAA.org, Jay Coakley's "Sports in Society".

· Number of kids ages 5-19 in U.S.: 61,446,112
· Number of kids ages 5-18 that competes in 61 top sports organizations: 38,259,845

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, National Council of Youth Sports, NCAA.org, Jay Coakley's "Sports in Society".

Youth Age Divisions

Youth competitions typically take place in two-year age divisions. These age divisions provide young athletes the opportunity to compete with other athletes of similar ability. The age divisions for competition year 2005 are as follows:

Age Division Year of Birth
Bantam (10 & under) 1995+
Midget (11-12) 1993-1994
Youth (13-14) 1991-1992
Intermediate (15-16) 1989-1990
Young (17-18) 1987-1988


2005 Divisions
The Junior Olympics is divided into six divisions for boys and six divisions for girls. The athlete's year of birth shall determine the division in which the athlete shall compete. With each succeeding year each division shall be adjusted. Listed below are the 2005 divisions (NOTE: Sub-Bantams do not advance past the Region 2 Meet in both Track & Field and Cross Country):
Sub-Bantam: Born 1997 or after
Bantam: Born in 1995-1996
Midget: Born in 1993-1994
Youth: Born in 1991-1992
Intermediate: Born in 1989-1990
Young: Born in 1987-1988

(NOTE: Sub-Bantams do not advance past the Region 2 Meet in both Track & Field and Cross Country):

Hockey players are separated into levels based on their age.
· Mites--This is the youngest age group for youth hockey. There are two groups of mites, silver mites and gold mites. Silver mites consist of six year olds and younger, while gold mites consist of seven and eight year olds.
· Squirts--Squirts are between the ages of nine and ten years.
· Pee Wees--Pee Wee is a turning point in a hockey player's life for two reasons. One, it is the first year that body checking is introduced and allowed. Second, it is the first year in which a slap shot is allowed. Pee Wees are eleven and twelve years old.
· Bantams--Bantam is the age where competition and skill really begin to take over. Bantams are thirteen and fourteen years old.
· Midgets--Midgets are the oldest age group before adult or amateur hockey. Midgets are fifteen and sixteen years old.

It amazes me how many people on here talk about who supports this or that at meetings when in reality most of the people voicing there opinions on here are the same people who cry for changes but when it comes time to go to the off season meetings they don't show up. The old saying if you don't vote don't cry. We go to the meetings in Wellsville,Sailina, and others each year, and it is always the same year end and year out the people cwanting changes never show up. Example 6 & U at state vote last time was around 70-80 percent against across the state. I believe the vote out come will be the same again like it is each year. I guess what I'm saying is if you want change take the time to help the rest of us make chages all will be happy with.

slap2414,

Is our State Body set up that just any person can attend, voice their opinion and vote on announced issues? I was under the impression that only our club's representative and policy Board members could do that? So my question here would be does any parent who has a child paying our dues have the right to attend Board meetings, voice their concerns and vote on issues?

I know the trade association that I work for has just started a new policy that calls for a vote of the entire membership on major policy issues. Perhaps that is something our USA Wrestling Kansas organization could consider doing.

I also thought that one of the major purposes of the forum was for our Board leadership to get some constructive feedback from people. I believe organizations willing to listen have the best opportunity for growth. It has been obvious to me that Ned Price our State Competition Director is doing that and has been actually encouraging us to offer more. He has been complimentary of the ideas for change that people have been taking the time to express on this forum. He has not been defensive and said he wants outside the box thinking and ideas. Now you may not agree with another persons calls for change but when we resort to calling these ideas crying or whining just because they are different than what we believe the only thing that is accomplished is to stifle potentially good ideas.

I think we all need to be open minded for change like Ned Price appears to be. Two years ago I was against 6&U participation at the State tournament and felt that 16&U was not need there either. I have changed my mind on both from reading the thoughts of others on this forum. I now believe we need to try to make it work for both groups. I think we need to extend the tournament to three days or have the high school wrestlers wrestle at a different time to do it but I think somehow we could make it happen. In doing this I think we need to try for bigger mats for all the age groups at State and especially for the 12&U age group.

I am now supporting trying to add the 6&U group at the State tournament even though I have the same reservations about it being too early for many of the 6&U wrestlers. These reservations extend beyond the State tournament for me. I think it is too early for many of these young children to be wrestling at any of the open tournaments. Is the pressure of State really that much more than Salina, Wichita-Park City, Liberty Nationals, the 6&U Ottawa tournament? As a State we have given parents the right to sign their 6&U kids up for most of the open tournaments during the season for several years now. Maybe it is time to give them that same choice in our State tournament series.

Any parent can start their own club and pay the CLUB FEES and then they get to vote. One vote per club at the state meeting in Salina - that is the way it works. We typically take 2 or 3 coaches from our club to the meeting and only one of us gets to vote. If our club and their parents and all other clubs parents show up we would need the Expo Center. The agenda is sent in advance to club representatives so we know what topics that need to be voted on. When I need to get an EXPERT opinion - on kids, I ask our parents and coaches. One of our coaches is from a family of 15 kids and the other coach is from a family 14 (not experts - but they have a pretty good field lab). A couple other familes in our club have large families with around 10 kids. I consider myself - from a family of 6 kids (novice) and have around 100 cousins on my dad's side and around 100 cousins on my mother's side. I get a bit of insite from my parents. My father was a social worker in the public school system and my mother -well you know her job. One of my brothers is a high school coach and elementry teacher. This by no means make these people or myself EXPERTS on todays young children. I have left that up to the people who do the studies. I am sure the board members keep tabs on the forum and all the topics - but I doubt they get into it as much as I do. I have been involved with Kansas Kids Wrestling Since 1992. We have come a long long long way since then.

Coach Sean McCarthy

Big Difference
Trade Association - For Profit
Kansas Kids - Not For Profit
Would we be adding more layers and extra cost if we had to mail to 7,000 plus participant members
or the 200 plus clubs. How big of a facility would we need for a meeting with 7,000 or 3,500 parents. How much would that cost. I guess we will have to do a cost benefit analysis first.

Sean:

Actually our trade association is a not for profit. We do have activities that our for profit but I would also have to guess that there are activities of our Kansas Kids Wrestling that are for profit.

Yes of course it would be absurd to have all these parents come to the State Body meeting just to vote on issues. I was not advocating that. I was just taking some exception to slap2414's post above that was taking people to task for not doing that. The reality is they are not really allowed to do that unless they start their own club or can convince their current club officers to allow them to be their club's voting representative. Before either you or slap2414 tell me we can start our own kid club and have that voting right, I think that would be as impractical as letting all the parents come to the State Body meeting to vote. I don't think I have much chance in being selected as STA's club voting representative either, do I? And I am not going to change clubs for one that would allow me to be their voting representative, because I think Sean McCarthy runs the best kids wrestling club in my area.

Sean, I also truly believe that the experts you have quoted recently are very credible. I just believe though that those same statements could also be made about 6&U participation at any open tournament in our entire season. So if we truly support them we should be lobbying against 6&U at all of our open tournaments and maybe we should only allow them to participate in tournaments that do not keep score and have no winners or placers. Tournaments like these would raise both wrestlers hands at the end.

I have been to six and under tournaments that do not keep score and raise both wrestlers hands and I liked them. That is how my brother runs his tournaments for kids that are six and under. Now I could lobby for that. There is a little difference with the other local "Open Tournaments". The do not have the title "STATE Champ", "STATE Qualifer", "STATE Placer" attached.
Those open tournaments do not require qualifying tournaments in order to participate.

Coach McCarthy

Sean:

I do think a system like that would be the best for this age group. I thought it was great for my son in first grade to just wrestle in four novice tournaments. I personally think it is better for the majority of the kids and probably the parents new to wrestling too. I know it was for my family.

I just don't think it is going back to anything like that. This age group participation in our state has grown too much in the last several years. They feel very strongly if they are participating in all the other open tournaments that they have the right to participate in the State series.

I would not have entered my son in the State series at that age because I know he was not ready for it. I do not enter him now even as a 14 year old in some national events because I do not think he is quite ready for some of them and I do not want him to get discouraged and quit the sport. If Coach McCarthy were to tell me not to enter him in a certain tournament because you do not feel he is ready, I would certainly listen to you and not enter him. I trust your advice for him as a wrestler.

I agree with you that I think it is a mistake to get your child too involved in competition at an early age. I agree with those who say there is a strong risk of burnout and dropping out of wrestling due to starting competition too soon. I just think that parents have to make that choice as to when is the right time to start them in competition.

I also think if this is our State Body's main concern for not having 6&U in the State tournament series, then it needs to seriously consider whether it should be allowed at any open tournament competitions during the season too and instead just allow this age group to compete in the less competitive novice environment. A system that would just reward participation, not keep score, raise both hands at the end and give the same ribbons to all participants at the end of the tournament.

The problem with voting on issues is at the state meetings some clubs don't show up, and because of this some votes don't come out the way the majority wants. This is also a problem at the seating meetings, which I think needs some attention. I think this discussion is good for wrestling, and the more people who get involved the better we are as a group. I hope the 6 & U topic is on the discussion board this year because it needs to be discussed in depth. I think there are a lot of topics addressed this year. Everything from refs, tournaments, and my big issue team cheating. Example of this anothet team getting caught conterfieting floor passes at state. If memory serves me right this is the second time a team has been caught doing this in the last few years. They were two different teams but what are we teaching our kids I think the teams that do things like this should be held accountable for these actions not just letting them get by with out anything done. The answer to your question is yes only appointed people go to these meetings, but my suggestion to you is either pass on your opinions to your reps our get involved and try to become a rep yourself. Keep posting on this topic because the more is said the more we hear if you get what I mean. The squeky wheel gets the grease like grandpa always use to say.

Good point. When I was on the board, one year at the state meeting we didn't have enough to hold a quorum. Coincidentally, that year there was a contengency that wanted to vote on the issue of 6 and under (something of vital importance according to the individuals).

It was so important that they couldn't even get enough individual representatives from each club to come to the meeting.

Going through the post, someone spouted a 70% decline. Granted, that was rather high, but as being a voting individual as this was brought up, I would venture to say it was even higher. I don't want to spout percentages because as we can see, when people are trying to prove a point with numbers, they are often short with their guesstimations.

Here's something for everyone to chew on. What if your club rep. doesn't vote the way your club wants to vote?????????????? Your club wants 6u at state and he or she doesn't or the other way around. Nobody would ever know.

I think when the state as a whole votes no like it always does one vote won't make a difference. The margin is so one sided one vote won't matter right now. If you feel your view is being ignored by your club start your own!

posted April 17, 2005 12:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found this on ESPN Nation Polls. There were 14,083 votes including my 1 vote on the 10 different topics. It may not be scientific or have the triple blinds tests - but the data should have some value.

1) Parents like those of Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters, who groom their kids to be athletes from a young age, are:
50.3% Hurting their kids
49.7% Helping their kids
2) At what age should kids start playing organized sports?
58.3% Between ages 5-7
23.4% Between ages 8-10
13.6% Before age 5
4.7% After the age of 10
3) At what age did you start playing organized sports?
49.8% Between ages 5-7
23.7% Between ages 8-10
14.5% Before age 5
12.1% After the age of 10
4) At what age should scores begin to be kept in organized games?
43.9% Between ages 8-10
35.1% Between ages 5-7
20.9% After the age of 10
5) At what age should all-star 'travel teams' be created?
40.2% Between ages 11-13
36.8% After the age of 13
19.3% Between ages 8-10
3.7% Before age 8
6) At what age should national championships begin to be held?
61.9% After the age of 13
28.0% Between ages 11-13
7.9% Between ages 8-10
2.2% Before age 8
7) If a kid is going to make it to the pros in a given sport, at what age does he need to begin specializing in that sport?
48.4% Before end of high school
28.5% Before age 13
17.4% Before age 9
5.7% Before age 5
8) At what age should the media begin televising and reporting on youth games?
84.1% High school years
8.6% Middle school years
6.3% Any age is fine
1.1% Elementary school years
9) Should kids be given physical/physiological tests to help them determine which sports they might be best tailored to play?
72.6% No
27.4% Yes
10) How important is the role of genetics in the making of an elite athlete?
52.2% Important but not critical
29.1% Very important
12.9% Not that important
5.8% Not at all important
Total Votes: 14,083


Source: ESPN Nation Polls

Why dont we let the six and unders go to state andset up their matts over in the exobition hall that way we could keep the 8u though the 16u on the main floor where they have always been and every one would have thier days at the big dance.

I think I can answer that.

First, finances. If I remember correctly from sitting on the board, the other facility next door is given to us for free. If we were to use it, it's going to cost. The last national tourney we had, we used the other facility for cadets and it cost us. They sort of let us use the facility as a bonus for weigh-in and parades.

Second, logistics. Regardless of which age division we were to send over to the other facility, someone's going to be slighted because brother is in another location or teammate, etc. No seating other than some portable benches. The argument would then be they should all be together.

Gibby I don't think the finance issue is right because sure we will have to pay more but you will be taking in more to so I would think it would off set. I agree with matter who wrestles there someone will be unhappy, but it would at least get the kids into state which is better than it ia now. Plus being the youngest kids in the newest bracket I think this would also justify this group more than the others to wrestle in the exohbition hall. The topic of bleachers for seating we do it at the second biggest tourney each year held in Kansas at Witchita and everyone is fine with it at that tournament. Sure this idea could be improved on but I think its better than nothing!

Just let the little kids wrestle, for cryin' out loud. I remember always wanting to go to state but never being able to because I had to wrestle kids two years older than me. It's really no fun at all for them.

this will be my sons third year in the in the 6 and under class his first year he almost went to state as a 4 year old. wrestling at subs in the 8 and under division. i would love to see him wrestle at topeka in his own age division