roger windham weighs 104 right now.... as i hear from rumors .. i also taked too him the other day... so i would switch brady heincker and roger windham around... cole carpenter is going for 189..... shawn marlatt will be 160 (if he can make that weight) and your right... all state champs...

As Jason responded, Wichita Heights should have 3 finalists and quite possibly 3 Champions again. In my list to start the post, I don't have the teams ranked in any order other than qualifiers. Having said that, WNW will be plenty tough. They should have 2 finalists and possibly 2 champions. I also expect Gaither and Page to place. Both of those teams will finish top 10 and I expect Heights will be top 3.

I have recently heard there is a very good chance that Heights will have a surprise high profile transfer wrestler in their line up at the start of the school year. Anyone else heard this? The wrestler I am speaking of is a former state champion that is pretty good friends with a number of wrestlers at Heights. Don't know for sure, but I have heard the talk about it. This will certainly change the projections of WH if this happens.

I also heard along time ago that Nathan F. might now go to Wichita Heights. They also have some tough freshmen coming in U. Deshazer & Matt Reed.

Chief:

Despite the fact that Wichita Northwest's Trey Page is a great wrestler (and even greater kid), I believe that its doubtful that he'll find a spot on the Northwest team this year as he likely can't make weight at 189 lbs (he continually struggled to make weight last year and has grown since) and Caylor and Heithouse (both defending state champions at 215 lbs & heavyweight respectively) look pretty solid for those weights. My "guess" is that Trey will concentrate on football.

This would be an unfortunate loss for Wichita Northwest and for Trey Page. He is definitely a high quality varsity wrestler and should be competing for a state placing finish next year. This is a problem that sometimes occurs in high school and college wrestling due to less opportunity for heavier wrestlers due to fewer weight classes at these weights. A possible alternative would be a system like the NAIA has where it lets schools take more than one wrestler in a weight class to its national tournament. I have heard that the NAIA schools are limited to the total number of wrestlers that they can take to the tournament to a number like ten. I believe the national college club wrestling system also allows for more than one wrestler per weight at its tournaments. I think Page and Caylor both competed at 215 in the Kansas Kids tournament series at the end of last year's high school season.

This problem does not develop in sports like high school track & field since each school can qualify more than one athlete per event. Page, Caylor and Heithaus if they were discus throwers could all have the opportunity to place at State in the same year. It is very unfortunate that football players like Page sometimes need to lose a lot of weight to find a spot on the varsity wrestling team. Some of them do make the decision not to wrestle. They decide to lift weights, gain weight and increase strength for football instead. I believe it is the reason that football coaches are not more supportive of their players coming out for wrestling. Many of these football coaches really are not interested in their players losing weight during their football off seasons.

The 2008 NAIA tournament entry sheet stated that each team could enter a total of 12 wrestlers for the ten college weight classes but no more than 2 per weight class. That would be similar to a high school system of allowing each team to enter 16 for the 14 weight classes with no more than 2 wrestlers per weight class.

I don't believe allowing two guys at a weight is a proper solution to the problem. In my opinion, lets drop a middle weight and add 235 or 240 and allow for more of those kids to show up. If I really had my way, I would just drop 103 period for the fact that the majority of kids entering high school and attending high school have to still make a big cut to make 103. Kids are bigger now as their diets make them bigger.

Drop 103 Add 235

Also: If I have a suprise high profile move in coming will someone please let me know! I work at this school daily and have heard no such news!!!! I'll take one if one of them happens to move into my area though tounge in cheek!!!!!

HWT is no more full that 103 now. If you want to add 235 fine, but not at the expense of the smaller kids.

24/7

OK, now I have to get on my "small man" soap box so please bear with me.....

1. Wrestling is one of the very few sports left for kids of all shapes and sizes. Especially for smaller kids. Cutting a lower weight class just further decreases the number of kids that can participate. Even if we don't have full weight classes at the lower weights, it still provides an opportunity for those of us who aren't blessed with average to above average size genetics.

2. I understand about the need potentially for an additional heavier weight but the bottomline is that a lot of the kids that size are on a course where they will ultimately have to make a choice between football and wrestling. I agree 100% with 24/7. Cutting a weight class limits potential participation in a sport that already has limited numbers.

Here's an idea of how they do it in Montana for the big schools....

Each high school can enter up to 2 full teams into the state qualifying tournaments. There are 2 divisional qualifying tournaments. The top 8 from each weight class qualifies for state the following week. At the state tournament the team points count just the same for every wrestler that qualifies.

At first, I didn't like this but having coached in that system for a few years I realized there were a lot of advantages to it. Here are the advantages from my perspective...

1. The true team champion is determined by who has the best overall program. The best programs end up qualifying 20-25 kids and thus usually score a lot more points at the state tournament.
As a coach, it requires you to build depth in your wrestling room.

2. It is a great advantage for the kids. If you have 2 studs at a weight you don't have to force one to wrestle up or down a weight. There has been times when one school has had 2 wrestlers in the championship. This is a good thing for the kids because the get to become state placers without having to cut weight just to try and fit into the line up or not get a chance because they can't make the weight.

3. This proces also promotes the total team concept among the wrestlers. Kids get more interested in helping their "back ups" vice just trying to make varsity.

4. It actually increases participation and the number of kids in the wrestling room. For example, if you have a group of state qualifiers or really good wrestlers, kids that aren't that good still come out for wrestling because they know they still have a chance.

I think these are very positive for a sport that has trouble increasing its number of participants in high school and college.

BLUF: We need to look at ways to increase the participation in the sport of wrestling, not limit opportunities.

Shawn Budke

Shawn, I like that Montana system. It would seem like the second squad of wrestlers could use the varsity experience during the season before the state qualifying tournaments start. Do they use the two squad system at all in other tournaments during the year before the state qualifying series begins?

I am not sure this belongs on this thread. But you can not get do away with the lighter weights. They are natural development years. Some kids are just late bloomers. My high school weights
98 (5 foot), 105, 126, 138 (5'11") AND college 167 all 4 years.


Rowlands, a four-time All-American at Ohio State, is no stranger to the process of gaining weight. In fact, it has been a never ending task for the former Buckeye since first taking to the mats.
This story sponsored by:

Russ Hellickson's Ohio State Wrestling Camps

Tommy Rowlands

“I was behind on the growth curve when I entered high school,” laughed Rowlands, an Ohio state and national high school champion. “I started out my freshman year at 5-7, 140 pounds and finished my senior year at 6-3, 205 pounds. I just didn't stop growing. It was good for me in many ways because I had to focus on the technical side of wrestling. It was a long time before I could rely on the physical aspect.”




Courtesy: OhioStateBuckeyes.com



Tommy Rowlands
Wrestling
Assistant Coach
Alma Mater: Ohio State (2005)



________________________________________
Courtesy: OhioStateBuckeyes.com
Release: 06/29/2007

Tommy Rowlands has begun his second season as a full-time assistant coach for Ohio State. The 2002 and 2004 NCAA heavyweight champion, Rowlands offers expertise that allowed him to conclude his career as the most decorated wrestler in OSU history. He is just the second Buckeye to win two national titles and the first to earn All-America honors four times.
Rowlands splits his time between coaching Buckeye wrestling and training as a 2008 Beijing Olympic hopeful. Recently, Rowlands earned a spot on the U.S. World Freestyle Team that competed in the World Championships in September and finished fifth at 264.5 pounds. During the summer, he also won a silver medal at the Pan American Games in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, (264.5 pounds) to go along with several other medals he has earned in national and international competition since he graduated from Ohio State in 2005 with a business degree.
The Hilliard, Ohio, native is the all-time leader at Ohio State in career wins (164), career team points (702.0) and career takedowns (705). His career record of 164-14 (.921) ranks fourth all-time in winning percentage at OSU, while his 44 wins in 2004 and 43 triumphs in 2001 rank fourth and fifth, respectively, all-time in a single season.
Rowlands and his wife, Elizabeth, reside in Hilliard, Ohio, and have a daughter, Ellie. Elizabeth completed her undergraduate studies and soccer career at Kentucky in 2004 and was a two-time all-conference performer and is the record holder at UK with 36 career assists and ranks third all-time in goals and points.

Rowlands, a four-time All-American at Ohio State, is no stranger to the process of gaining weight. In fact, it has been a never ending task for the former Buckeye since first taking to the mats.

I would count on Junction City doing some serious damage this year in wrestling. They will have plenty of State Qualifiers returning and two Super Coaches leading that team for another year to look forward too.

Vince,

I ended up liking the MT system a lot also. I just think it does a lot to promote the sport and increase participation. No they do not use it for any of the other tournaments before state. At a lot of the tournaments they will let you bring a JV (second) team but the second team is counted as another team for team points. Another thing they do, if they don't have enough teams, is they will invite teams to bring their best #2 wrestlers at certain weights. They will then form that into a separate team.

Sean,

Now you are giving me a real complex! I was way under the normal growth chart for height and weight. The problem is the only place I seem to be catching up is on the weight side. Missed the train for the catching up on the height! HA!

You are absolutely right, we have to keep the smaller weights.

Shawn Budke

Smokeycabin:

Just to clarify things, I am not advocating doing away with the lighter weights just adjusting them upward slightly. I do think you could adjust the lowest weight class upward a bit say to the 106 or 108 area and I agree with Mike Church that would be a good thing. I realize that it would hurt competitively a little some smaller wrestlers 100 or less because it would bring a few more wrestlers into the lightest weight class. But I also agree with Mike Church that this lightest weight class is a very difficult one to fill for many teams and that it is year end and year out dominated by freshmen and sophomores. Even at 108 it would still be dominated by freshmen and sophomores. I think there is a lot of unhealthy weight cutting that happens for growing kids to make this 103 at a lot of schools.

24/7, I don't think the Senior Metro Classic last year could even fill the 103 weight class but it had two heavyweight matches. There are plenty of heavier juniors and seniors in high schools if we could start getting the football coaches to encourage them to wrestle. I don't feel a varsity sport should be dominated by freshmen and sophomores. There would be nothing wrong with some of these lighter freshmen wrestling JV a year or two. I did not wrestle in high school. I played football and participated in track & field. Those sports were dominated annually by juniors and seniors and I believe that they still are. I think that is the way most sports should be and that freshmen varsity athletes should be the exception and not the rule.

Smokey, actually this high school growth spurt that you gave examples of with yourself going from 5 foot 98 pounds as a freshmen to 5' 11" 138 as a senior (I suspect your senior natural weight was over 150 what did you play football at?) and Tommy Rowlands growth of 5-7 140 as a freshmen to 6'3" 205 are prime examples in my opinion as to why high school wrestling should be have more opportunities for juniors and seniors who grow to these heavier weights. Remember how many quality junior and seniors we saw two years ago at Aquinas who had grown to heavier weight classes over 160 that could not find a spot on that talent rich team due to the lack of heavier weight classes? I think Aquinas that year easily could have had around 18 or more state qualifiers if Kansas had a system like Montana's where you could take two squads to the State tournament qualifying series.

I just hate to see these upper classmen lose the opportunity to wrestle varsity as juniors and seniors due to their natural growth and the lack of opportunity in the heavier weight classes over 160.

I would like to see weight classes adjusted to something like 108, 114, 120, 126, 133, 140, 148, 157, 167, 178, 190, 205, 225 and 275.

Shawn Budke,

I do think if we could implement a system like the Montana system that there would be less reason to adjust the weight classes because it would automatically create more opportunity and that is what it should be all about.

I still do have some concerns about the weight cutting that goes on at many schools to make 103 and the trouble that even growing freshmen having during the year of maintaining that weight.

Great Point(s) Vince, we all know there is NO WEIGHT CUTTING at any other weights other than 103 to be concerned about, and that ONLY FRESHMEN grow during the year (which is apparently the only grade level you feel wrestles 103).

Place Wrestler Year School Record - 4A Last Year:
1st Kenneth Ornelas 11 Chanute 39- 2
2nd Darin Stroot 12 Andale 31- 5
3rd Taylor Moeder 9 Colby 34- 4
4th Zach Cook 10 Smoky Valley 35- 4
5th Cass Steele 09 Meriden-Jefferson West 27- 5
6th Luke Cole 11 Abilene 32- 8

1st - Junior
2nd - Senior
4th - Sophmore
6th - Junior

Place Wrestler Year School Record 5A Last Year:
1st Blaine Smith SO Salina South High School 21- 2
2nd Dylan Penka 9 Wichita-Carroll 33- 4
3rd Adrian Salas SO Liberal High School 31- 9
4th Caleb Seaton 9 Bonner Springs 38- 4
5th Hunter Garrett 10 Seaman High School 26- 12
6th Robert Arzola 11 Kansas City-Turner 13- 15

1st - Sophmore
3rd - Sophmore
5th - Sophmore
6th - Junior
Place Wrestler Year School Record 6A Last Year:
1st Isaac Ruiz 10 Junction City 29- 6
2nd Jeff Vesta 11 Manhattan 37- 1
3rd Roger Windham 11 Derby 29- 8
4th Brijin McCullough 10 Wichita-South 22- 10
5th Tre Humphrey 9 Shawnee Mission South 36- 4
6th Jason Harper 09 Wichita-Haysville-Campus 18- 9

1st - Sophmore
2nd - Junior
3rd - Junior
4th - Sophmore

Tim:

You and I will not change each other's minds on this. I also looked at the state qualifiers in the classes you mentioned 6A, 5A and 4A. I felt what I saw supported my statement that 103 is dominated by freshmen and sophomores. I saw that the state qualifiers were predominantly freshmen and sophomores in 103 last year 13 in 6A, 14 in 5A, and 13 in 4A. I guess it is my football background, but to me that is not a normal high school varsity sport situation.

All those 103 placers you listed are excellent wrestlers and very deserving of their state placing accomplishments. I congratulate them. I do believe they would probably have all placed still if 103 was bumped up slightly to 106 or 108.

Maybe I am not looking at this correctly, I do know there are lighter kids under 100 pounds. I do not want to see them lose opportunity. I do want to see increased wrestling opportunity for all high school wrestlers including the heavier juniors and seniors. If Kansas could implement a system like Montana's that Shawn Budke described it would offer more opportunity for all wrestlers and there would be less reason to adjust the current weight classes.

No one wants to see any of the lighter kids loose out. But if you look at the weight between each Bracket. From 103 to 160 the weight difference is single digit numbers. And if you look at 126 to 152 there are 6 brackets within that range with a total of 27 pounds seperation, the same pound difference from 189 to 215. So I guess we fathers with the sons in the heavier brackets look at it as why don't we add a bracket ot (2) in the heavier weights to maybe get some mat time for the bigger boys.