Here's my positive sandwich!

The Ottawa tournament was ran excellent. They really made me a believer in the split format. And matches went lightning fast. I want to say that morning session was over by 12 or 1. And there was no wait for medals and brackets.

BUT, Weigh ins were terrible. First of all, weigh-ins were supposed to start at 6. They bring scales into the gym at 6:15. Then we wait another 10 minutes for the officials to show up with the rosters for weigh-ins. Then they discover that none of the scales agree. It took another 10 minutes to figure out which scales were the most accurate. Weigh-ins started at 6:35.

The head guy made the comment that you could not weigh-in like they did down in Pittsburg, with your singlet on your shoulder. You had to be wearing it. I'm sorry but at least Pittsburg started the weigh-ins on time.

But then again, Ottawa had plenty of mat space. Especially for the bigger kids. I liked the way they did the mats in the extra gym.

Overall though it was a well ran tournament(B). Just could have been better prepared for weigh-ins. 200 hungry kids wanting to eat can get kinda ugly

AMEN!

Hungry kids? Should of took them to Country Kitchen! Great service!
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

I'm all for the "positive sandwich" approach.

matches ran well but again the age old problem of the mats being too small. 200+pound wrestlers not having a full mat? championship caliber lighter kids etc...
Pittsburg had full mats and if you notice some rematches from that sub came out differently at districts in part because of the smaller size of the mats

I didnt see any kids with thier singlet over thier shoulder at Pittsburg. But I will guess the person that made the comment was Don Johnson, Ref God.

I thought that the half mats for the 14 under division was a horrible idea. I saw to many matches with people running and slamming into other wrestlers and the action being brought down greatly because of constantly restarting. I am curious if there is a rule that says 14u can wrestle on anything besides a full mat?

DON JOHNSON IS A REF GOD,,,miss the mission valley cowboy hat days Don,,,,

I agree with the the problem of viewing of the matches from the stands. It was near impossible unless you are like me and a tad rude to people and wrestlers who keep standing at the side of the mat instead of behind the mat. Sit down or move to behind the table.

Also weigh-ins were a mess my son stood in the wrong line for awhile because there was no order in the lines and they were all intermingled.

But my big problem with the split for mat was the way they had the front side run all the was out to the finals and made the back side wrestle on top of each other, there was only 3 weights on my sons mat so he wrestled 3 times in 8 matches, (ie 17, 20 and 25). Makes for a hard day. But it was nice to be done at 10:30. Mat 14 was all done by 10:45 and they made mat 12 and 13 full mats.

Many people tried to get districts to Baldwin or another facility but the majority of the club directors at the state meeting voted for Ottawa. I think they try to run a quality tournament, but they do not have the facility. Everyone needs to talk to their club directors and ask them to vote for a different site next year.

Twister

Let me say a few things here. As an official I thought the tournament was very well run. We wer edone by 5:00 which is darn good for the number and quality of kids wrestling. As far mat space let me answer your question OneEagle. Simply stated the answer to your question is no. There is no minimum mat size requiremetn for any age in Kansas kids wrestling. USA Wrestling Kansas follows the NFHS rules in regard to Most rules. However there are certain modifications to rules in order to accomodate the format of kids tournaments. Namely with hundreds of kids its impossible to run full mats for every age group and weight at normal high schools around the sate, and still be out of there in any good time. What really annoys me is the parents that want the best of both worlds. They want plenty of mat space but they also want to be done by 2 in the afternoon. It just doesn't work that way. Now in regards to mat size. Kansas rules stipulate no minimum size with the following conditions.

Rule 2-1-2

Every wrestling area, no matter what size, must have a minimum three (3) foot safety mat area next to any floor surface and five (5) foot from any wall or post.

I can tell you that I really didn't have any problems at this tournament with kids going off the mat and I was working the older kids all day. Its your job as a wrestler to stay in teh center of the mat if your running off the mat, using the edge to your advantage, pushing your opponent off the mat, ect ect. Then that is your problem not the sites. If the only complaint that you can come up with for this tournament was half mats for 14 year olds then I would have to say that the Ottawa people did one heck of a job. Also Mr. Hosey how a tournament determines its weigh-ins is their choice. If a site determines that all weigh ins must be with a singlet on then that is the procedure. I don't believe I've ever heard of a tournament weighing in with a singlet over the shoulder and the procedure at Pittsburg was incorrect.

As for the spectator thing. I wasn't up in the stands so I didn't get to se the view from there. But I will say if you parents would keep your kids up in the stands in stead of by the mat their would be considerably better views. I don't know how many times I had to back people off the mat.

Anyway once again great job Ottawa for a well run tournament.

Nigel,

You better reread the rules as stated in the kids constitution located on this website.

13. Rules Modifications (references to NFSHSA rules book):



Rule 2-1-2
The wrestling area of the mat shall be based on the age group competing, as follows:




Under 11
must have a minimum wrestling area of 15'x 15'




11 to 14
must have a minimum wrestling area of 20'x 20'




15 & 16
must have a minimum wrestling area of 24 feet square or a circular area of 28 feet in diameter

Nigel, read your kids supplement to the rules. There are minimum mat sizes as well as the buffer/safety area.

Nigel, First of all, I never saw anyone weighing in with a singlet thrown over the shoulder. The whole point to my comment was they were worried about singlets, while I just wanted weigh-ins to start on time.

Instead of worryin' bout Pittsburg, they should have been tryin' to start their own weigh-in that was already 30 minutes past starting time.

Mr Hosey,

you should know by this time in the season that very farely do kids tournaments get started on time, whether this includes weigh-ins or not is a mute point. Its not the end of the world that weigh-ins started 30 minues late and as I said if that was the only problem wrong with the tournament then I would say it was pretty much a success.

Let me reinterate my statement above. Kansas Kids have stated the rules above listed by Mr. Broadbent, however they also recognize that sometimes these minimums cannot be attained and still fall under the other rules concerning no morethan 12 hours of wrestling a day, cannot wrestle past 9 o'clock and so on. So the above rules that Mr. Broadbent listed are in fact guidelines more than rules. Every senior official I have worked has said the exact same thing. It's just too bad that this is the way it is. To avoid having to go to the same site every year for districts and sub-districts they are sometimes placed at facilities that are not neccasarily capable of conforming to certain regulations. As an official I really don't care about the whining of parents over such issues. Your never going to have it the way you want it because you ask too much. You want full mats for your kids but you want to be out in decent time. Lets just assume that Ottowa did have full regulation size mats. Currently they had 14 wrestling surfaces in the morning. Had they chosen to give full mat sizes you could expect to maybe have 8 or 9 surfaces instead. Do the math. Without the 5 extra sufaces thats another 50 matches (in this stournament as most mats whent to about 50 matches). Divide those matches over the remaining thats almost an extra 30 matches per mat. Figure at the most 10 matches per mat per hour thats an extra three hours you could possibly have to stay there. Now heres the kicker! That was only for the morning session. Think if they wouldn't have had a split session, And your talking about full 28ft circles for the upper kids. You can just imagine how late and how long you're 6 year old would have been there. What im saying is you really should consider everything before you go critizising a club for all the hard work they put in. I've been to several bigger facilities with enough room for full mats and they still took several more hours to complete the tournament and they were very unorganized. The reason why every club gets the opportunity for a bid is that it would be unfair to send these tournaments to the same location year after year and allow one club to rake in all the money. I'm not going to say anythign else on the subject because what needed to be said has been said. No more whining please, unless you are prepared to help in changing the status quo (that means parents and spectators), then this is something you should keep to yourself.

The original topic was simply "Thank You Ottawa for doing a great job" and with that I agree wholeheartedly.

In reference to the rules discussion:

Nigel is both right & wrong the way I read the rules. He is correct in that there are no rules regarding mat size in:

SECTION III: TOURNAMENT OPERATIONS
PART A – SANCTIONED FOLKSTYLE TOURNAMENTS

However, he also wrong because:

PART B – QUALIFYING FOLKSTYLE TOURNAMENTS

1. Qualifying tournaments are tournaments that are used to qualify or are in a series of tournaments that could advance a wrestler to the State level of competition, including the state tournament itself. Qualifying tournaments are subject to all sanctioned tournament rules in the preceding Part A, except where those rules have been modified or expanded under this Part B.

13. Rules Modifications (references to NFSHSA rules book):
Rule 2-1-2
The wrestling area of the mat shall be based on the age group competing, as follows:

Under 11
must have a minimum wrestling area of 15'x 15'

11 to 14
must have a minimum wrestling area of 20'x 20'

15 & 16
must have a minimum wrestling area of 24 feet square or a circular area of 28 feet in diameter

I would assume that since this is a "Qualifying Tournament" as opposed to a "Sanctioned Tournament" that this rule should be enforced.

Then again, I could be wrong?

Nigel, I don't know what you are talking about. I only complained about the weigh-ins. I complimented the rest of the tourney and Ottawa.
Please reread my original post.
I don't think it is too much to ask to at least start weigh ins on time. I'm not talking about the tournament because things do come up that need dealt with. But if weigh-ins are going to be at 6 then they should start close to that time. The officials are getting paid for a service and if part of that service is doing the weigh-ins then do the job.

My wife just read your post and said " You didn't even complain about the mat sizes, What an idiot."

Well she about summed it up.

Nigel,

It is so nice to have people like you that can quote the by-laws and constitution. Us whining parents would not be able to make it without ya. But, it looks like some of the whining parents have to correct you on your quotes ever once in awhile. So, maybe instead of reading the whining of parents (even though it is a "TALK" forum) you need to go brush up on your reading material. When you want to make yourself sound smart try quoting things correctly.

The intent is to insure the singlet will fit. Imagine a 120 lb. kid in a childs xxxsmall, they've somehow managed to get it over their hips but could no way get it over their chest and shoulders. Attempts to shave off another few tenths. The late start on weigh in was unfortunate but I understand one scale was off a pound and everybody wanted to weigh in on that one. I don't think anybody wanted to make a mistake during weigh in and start another controversy. The kids were hungry. How many of us don't eat because the kids haven't. I thought Ottawa and company were good host and the tournament ran pretty smooth. I didn't really hear any complaints or see any trouble. Really nice medals and wall brackets. Thanks Ottawa, thanks to all, Good job.
I asked an official once to get on the forum and defend himself or offer an explanation about a matter that was being discussed in great length. He said it wasn't ethical for him to do that, oppinions were like ******** and everybodies got one. He just wasn't about to get on here and start explaining the rules, besides he thought the whole matter was rediculous. Obviously to me he had a great deal of self-respect and a great deal of confidence in his knowledge and what he was doing. I do beleive the best refs are almost invincable or at least they don't go out of their way letting everybody know they are there. And To some it's better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.