Bad. I know many are relevant rankings, but it seems as with those ones you are rewarding your bias. I suppose it is your deal, however, so do what you want with your godly rankings.

Bad for who?

Stevie,

22% of your lifetime posts on this forum have been on this All-Class thread. In what way do you see them as Godly?

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with what the Chief is doing. Someday these same kids will get overlooked for a promotion or something else they may strive to achieve. Throughout life you will be confronted with situations where there exists more subjectivity than objectivity. It is okay to fall short of what you want, it builds character. Isn't that what we are ultimately doing here? Preparing today's youth for tomorrow's harsh realities? If you don't agree with Chief's rankings then perhaps next year we can see the Stevie08 rankings. I tried to do all of the 4A weights and it took WAY too much time so I cannot even imagine how much Eric invests into the integrity of his rankings. Again, our sport needs all of us who are passionate to rally together to promote and support not to throw stones at someone who gives more than most to our sport. Respect his efforts and if you don't like the results do something positive for wrestling instead of taking shots at the Chief.

Those "others" mentioned probably would want a shirt, why wouldn't they? They would obviously not be alone. Apparently there are others that feel they should get one as well. I definately want Windham to get one. But forget runnerup. Windham deserves no less than Co.
As I have already stated though, I really do enjoy the Chief list and I do "applaud" him for his passion/efforts and "outside of the box thinking" but yes, they are opinions. I do believe that Chief probably knows more about the overall picture. He probably knows more about most of the weights than I do, but no, he does not know more about my son's weight than I do (unless his son was at the same weight). My son has wrestled all of the list-makers at his weight, most this year, or at least been in their bracket. I have seen all of them wrestle many times over the last 10 years and I have studied the results from competitions this year that I was not able to bear witness to. There would obviously be someone just like me that could speak about the weight that their son/grandson/brother/etc wrestled at.
I am not trying to hate, this is supposed to be a positive thing. I am just tired of all of the justifications/excuses for the supreme legitimacy of the Chief list and then the derogatory comments directed at others who might not totally agree with "the list". The list is what it is, Chief's opinion. I do agree with the overall list as the best possible representation of what Kansas has to offer based on opinion, but obviously see some possible discrepancies and warranted disagreements. But that's ok. Keep doing what you are doing, etc, Chief because I certainly follow the list and enjoy it. I already look forward to the list next year.
Now let the mud fly!

See, now that was a legitimate post. Healthy discussion is always great for the sport.

Obviously, the "godly rankings" (hint no capitalization of the word) was sarcasm. It's not that I think your rankings are awful, it's just I see no reason why some are set the way they are. Before you ask me to give criteria for why I think that, give me some for why you have chosen to give certain people criteria over others with no head to head. Example, both Blair and Madl lost to Dozier. Neither of them lost any other matches all season. Both state champs, Blair's second. What gives Madl superiority over Blair? Should they not be co-champions such as Maple and Napier were before their head to head? And now that there is a "prize" involved in reaching the apex of your rankings, why would it not be argued that some others may deserve one too?

Whew, that's a relief.

I think it's a great idea.

You know, every kid who has ever been fortunate enough to break into the chief's "all-class rankings" will probably cherish that exalted status and memory for a life-time.

Some time back, someone (maybe the chief) said that "it" (i.e. the "all-class rankings") "belonged to them" (i.e. any kid who, if for a brief period of time, broke into the rankings), and I thought that was so true. Shoot, from my high school athletic career, I can remember meaningless details of absolutely no importance to anyone, but me and my family. Does anyone truely labor under the delusion that even mention in the chief's all-class rankings hold no allure, or will not forever be impressed in some young athletes (or their family's) memory?

Keep in mind that we don't have a grand state to sort all of this out. Thankfully, We do have the chief. The idea that an athlete was deemed to be one of Kansas's best wrestler's by someone (yeah, it's an opinion), but an extremely educated and researched one, and I can't even fathom the time that the chief has invested toward this worthy endeavor, nor, for that matter why he chooses to put himself "out there")

Sure,the chief's opinions are not state issued hard-ware, but it's pretty exalted recognition for a alot hard work and sacrifice, and it's gives us a pretty good idea how these kids would likely stack up at a grand state. It goes without saying that the chief could be wrong, as on a given night, for most of these truely elite wrestlers, anyone could prevail. So be it.

Mark my words, when the chief has had enough, and decides to check out, the perenial debate as to who is the best at any given weight in the sundry classes will not end. We will simply not have a convenient forum in which to debate, argue and/or discuss the issue.

Anyway, for all of you out there who are critical of the chief for his perceived intrusions into your "order of things", hide and watch: until we ressurect the concept of a grand state, I can't imagine someone willing to step into the chief's shoes and do as credible a job as the chief does,and has done, year-in/year-out.

As an aside, I've never met the Chief; but his regular contributions on this forum have contributed immeasurably to my knowledge and enjoyment of matches in this sport, and for that I'm genuinely grateful.

My son's have graduated. I no longer have anything invested in this sport. I just wanted to weigh in with a sincere not of gratitude to the chief for his contributions to this sport that I have come to love.

Now we are talking. You gave me some criteria without me even asking. Nice job. OK, let's talk about Madl vs. Blair...

Both great wrestlers and the margin is very thin. However...

Madl lost to Dozier in OT after getting tied in regulation with less than 5 seconds to go. Parker was also sick with the flu at that tournament. He then beat Peoples for the 5th time last season after Peoples had just beaten Dozier. The real criteria comes in when you compare the strength of the 140 brackets in 5A vs. 6A. That 6A/140 bracket was one of the toughest brackets in the state in ANY class. The top four wrestlers were Madl, Peoples, Dozier and Shavlik. 5A/140 had Blair, Dikin, Langford and Seibel. All quality wrestlers but as a whole, below 6A. Two other things seperated Madl from Blair. #1 - Madl began the season weighing 138 and never cut weight the entire season, moving up from 119 the prior year. Blair wrestled 160 at Kid's state a month after the HS season. #2 - Madl wrestles 9 months out of the year and was a Fargo All-American in 2008.

After considering this criteria, I ranked Parker Madl #1.

Now I can see where you are coming from, even if I have some disagreement. Now I know why you chose what you did. However, I don't think you can choose that based off of strength of the state bracket. Blair won with what he was given. Had he been 6A, he could have won that just as well. I also don't see what weight cutting has to do with it. They both made the same weight at the same time.

XGHSWC has given many on Windham, and I am still not sure as to why Pursel is ranked higher. Again, if it comes down to strength of the state bracket, which kind of puts down those other placers that may feel like they are just as good as other classes placer, I don't see how that can validate it. Windham won with what was put in front of him, and in stellar fashion.

The design is finished for the All-Class T-shirts and they look fantastic! Thanks to Blue Chip Athletic for the design!

Please e-mail or PM me with your address if you will not be at the Park Hill Duals. If you will be there, I'll have them for you. As soon as I get the total cost per shirt, I will let you know.

Senior shirts are free!

(Bump to end this thread...)

FINAL FINAL 2008-09 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!


TEAM RANKINGS:

1. Goddard - 6A
2. Emporia - 5A
3. Colby - 4A
4. Derby - 6A
5. Lansing - 5A
6. Bishop Carroll - 5A
7. Smith Center - 321A
8. Clay Center - 4A
9. Maize - 6A
10t. Abilene - 4A
10t. Wichita Heights - 6A



103
1. Bo Pursel - 9 - LS - 5A
2. Roger Windham - 12 - DB - 6A
3. Aaron Seybold - 9 - PT - 5A
4. Dylan Schumacher - 9 - TM - 321A
5. Colby Watters - 9 - ARK - 5A
6. Hunter Stalford - 9 - CV - 4A
7. Konnor Kriss - 9 - CB - 4A
8. Austin Hood - 9 - LOU - 4A
9. Ty Kolterman - 9 - CC - 4A
10. Luke Cole - 12 - AB - 4A


112
1. Taylor Moeder - 10 - SJA - 4A
2. Alan Callahan - 12 - BAL - 4A
3. Kenneth Ornelas - 12 - CH - 4A
4. Dane Norris - 10 - MH - 6A
5. Uylesses DeShazer - 9 - WH - 6A
6. Isaac Ruiz - 11 - JC - 6A
7. Dalton Miller - 11 - WC - 6A
8. Trevor Boyer - 11 - MV - 5A
9. Bo Newport - 10 - PV - 4A
10t. Nathan Reed - 11 - CB - 4A
10t. Adrian Salas - 11 - LB - 5A


119
1. Nathan Furches - 12 - CL - 4A
2. Zack Tanenbaum - 10 - BVN - 6A
3. Garrett Jones - 11 - ARK - 5A
4. Jake Gentzler - 10 - AC - 5A
5. Jeff Vesta - 12 - MH - 6A
6. Zac Sparr - 12 - RH - 4A
7. Logan Singular - 11 - CC - 4A
8. Dan Weigel - 12 - PL - 321A
9. Zach Hoehn - 10 - WEL - 321A
10. Blaine Smith - 11 - SS - 5A


125
1. Chase Nitcher - 11 - VC - 5A
2. Chaz Lawrence - 12 - OS - 6A
3. Daniel DeShazer - 10 - WH - 6A
4. Zach Peters - 12 - AU - 4A
5. Devon Frye - 12 - EU - 321A
6. Alex Bontz - 9 - WI - 4A
7. Jace Campbell - 11 - OA - 321A
8. Steven Plott - 11 - SS - 5A
9. Tyson Schmidtberger - 11 - RUS - 4A
10. Kyle Johnson - 10 - COL - 4A


130
1. Ryne Cokeley - 10 - SJA - 4A
2. Trent Cox - 12 - MZ - 6A
3. Colt Rogers - 11 - SC - 321A
4. Spencer Blew - 10 - LS - 5A
5. Kash Biddle - 11 - ARK - 5A
6. Dylan Penka - 10 - BC - 5A
7. Josh Umscheid - 12 - AC - 5A
8. Justin Rose - 12 - EMP - 5A
9. Cody Wildin - 11 - MA - 321A
10t. Aaron Geist - 12 - OS - 321A
10t. Trey Houlden - 10 - GD - 6A


135
1. Kendric Maple - 12 - WH - 6A
2. C.J. Napier - 12 - COL - 4A
3. Tyler Anderson - 11 - CC - 4A
4. Bryce Hood - 11 - LOU - 4A
5. Danny Floyd - 11 - OS - 321A
6. Sal Tovar - 12 - EMP - 5A
7. Cade Hewitt - 12 - BE - 321A
8. Vance Oliver - 11 - WIN - 5A
9. Beau Hentzen - 12 - BC - 5A
10. Dillon Stucky - 11 - SC - 4A


140
1. Parker Madl - 11 - BV - 6A
2. Cade Blair - 11 - VC - 5A
3. Linwood Peoples - 12 - BVNW - 6A
4. Joey Dozier - 11 - GC - 6A
5. Cameron Jesseph - 12 - CH - 4A
6. Zach Bainter - 12 - NO - 321A
7. Dustin Zahorsky - 12 - SL - 321A
8. Tavo Dikin - 12 - EMP - 5A
9. John Lynch - 12 - LA - 321A
10t. Trevor Oliver - 11 - OS - 321A
10t. Cody Shavlik - 11 - DB - 6A


145
1. Mitchell Means - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Colby Crank - 12 - HUT - 5A
3. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE - 321A
4. Trevor Rempe - 12 - SC - 321A
5. Tyler Davis - 11 - MCP - 5A
6. Jake Walker - 11 - STA - 5A
7. Jake Hattabaugh - 10 - AN - 4A
8. Sam Son - 9 - CH - 4A
9. Quinton Wuthnow - 12 - AB - 4A
10. Chase Sanchez - 10 - EMP - 5A


152
1. Chris Watson - 12 - AC - 5A
2. Nathan Sommer - 12 - PV - 4A
3. Blake Fulbright - 12 - MZ - 6A
4. Ryan Houlden - 12 - GD - 6A
5. Marshall McCall - 12 - SC - 321A
6. Derek Newell - 12 - UL - 4A
7. Tyler Sutherland - 12 - LB - 5A
8. David Lalo - 12 - OE - 6A
9. Reece Wright-Conklin - 9 - LAW - 6A
10. Cullen Demerest - 11 - LS - 5A


160:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Kyle Detmer - 12 - BC - 5A
3. Travis Rempe - 12 - SC - 321A
4. John Hambleton - 11 - LC - 4A
5. Benny Armstrong - 11 - AN - 4A
6. Ryan Wuthnow - 11 - AB - 4A
7. Corey Engstrom - 12 - HOI - 321A
8. Todd Curtis - 11 - GE - 5A
9. Ethan Mumaw - 10 - JW - 4A
10. Anson Worrell - 12 - BVNW - 6A


171
1. Breck Arnberger - 12 - CB - 4A
2. Alex Feldkamp - 12 - DB - 6A
3. Chase Nelson - 12 - WH - 6A
4. Tyler Hasenbank - 12 - CON - 4A
5. Noel Richardson - 12 - CHP - 4A
6. Grant Hinckley - 12 - LS - 5A
7. Ryan Taylor - 12 - GL - 321A
8. Chaston Hoeme - 12 - SC - 4A
9. Jake Price - 12 - CV - 4A
10. Greg Curtis - 12 - GE - 5A


189
1. Boaz Beard - 12 - GD - 6A
2. Darnell Bortz - 12 - PRT - 4A
3. Aron Elsen - 12 - GB - 5A
4. Nate Davis - 12 - LB - 5A
5. Mark Kolmer - 11 - EMP - 5A
6. Treat Bugbee - 12 - CB - 4A
7. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC - 4A
8. Brandon Reif - 12 - WC - 6A
9. Sawyer Krone - 12 - BE - 321A
10t. Fernando Martinez - 12 - GD - 321A
10t. Jarad Sanches - 12 - SMW - 6A


215
1. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB - 4A
2. Kyle Caylor - 11 - WNW - 6A
3. Steve Kyler - 12 - ES - 321A
4. Jake Cole - 12 - BC - 5A
5. Jacob Nowak - 12 - STA - 5A
6. Taylor Wuthnow - 11 - AB - 4A
7. Howard Johnson - 12 - GB - 5A
8. Levi Kindel - 12 - CON - 4A
9. Kendall Pierce - 12 - CIR - 4A
10. Jake Woten - 12 - OE - 6A


285
1. Lucas Vincent - 11 - ON - 6A
2. Tank Burns - 11 - COL - 4A
3. B.J. Finney - 11 - AN - 4A
4. Lorenzo Serna - 11 - EMP - 5A
5. Trey Page - 11 - WNW - 6A
6. Jared Rice - 11 - PH - 321A
7. Tony Marquez - 12 - BC - 5A
8. Dennis Devader - 12 - HOL - 4A
9. Cody Huffman - 12 - DO - 321A
10. Dillon Salmans - 10 - HOX - 321A