After reading all the posts on the toughest tourney in Kansas I studied the brackets from both Newton and Garden City and this is what I came up with. The tourney listed I thought had the tougher bracket. Let me know what you think.
103-Newton
112-Garden

119-Newton
125-Draw
130-Garden
135-Garden
140-Newton
145-Draw
152-Garden
160-Newton
171-Newton
189-Draw
215-Newton
285-Draw

I think that Garden City is the toughest just cause of the caliber of Kansas wrestlers and out of staters that go to the tourney!

I don't think you look at just the top, you look at how deep the brackets were. You are wrong on 125 and 140. The two out of staters at the top of 125 are as good and the rest I would give a nod to Garden City. 140 Max Ortega, Jacob Snider (he had the flu) are both Nationally ranked!, Joey Dozier, Dakota Hayes, etc. Dikin was supposed to be in there too but was ill.

- Place Winners - - Place Winners -
1st Kendric Maple W. HEIGH (12) 19- 0 5th Jason Seibel SALINA S (11) 22- 4
2nd Tavo Dikin EMPORIA (12) 19- 3 6th Heath Stephens COLBY (12) 17- 7


I would say that 160 was about even. At 285 you would have to give the nod to GC since the Newton champion was defeated in the finals at GC.

I think you have to look at the fact that Emporia was first at Newton and third at Garden City. Liberal was 4th at Newton and 6th at Garden City. Newton was 12th and 23rd! (They only brought a couple of guys...)
3rd Cody Shavlik DERBY (11) 13- 3 7th Rusty Yarrow CLAY CEN (9) 17- 6
4th Jake Mainz CARROLL (12) 16- 8 8th Will Price LEVNWRTH (11) 13- 7

Will, I will concede that 125 was tougher at Garden, but I will disagree on 140, I know you don't like to just look at the top but Maple would of won Garden city hands down. At 160, Gaskill from Emporia got 3rd at Garden and did not place at Newton, so I think the nod goes to Newton. As far as 285 I will still call that a draw, because you and I both know a 285 match can go either way when there is only a point separating 1st and 2nd. In my opinion I think the toughest bracket I have seen this year is the one Ryne was in at Garden, that was brutal!

Not so fast my friend. Max Ortega of Rio Rancho might have something to say about Maples coming in and winning 140 “hands down.” For cryin’ out loud Ortega is the #6 ranked 140 pounder in the nation. Maple isn’t even at 140 either, he wrestled at Newton 140 to get more competition which wasn’t near as good as what he could’ve seen at Garden City in Ortega, Snider (the Reno Nationals champ), Doizer, ect.

Ricky, the point I was trying to make is that you can't make a blanket statement on which tourney is tougher in Kansas without looking at the individual brackets. In my opinion Garden and Newton are equally tough. If I gave 140 to Garden it still comes out 6 for Newton, 6 for Garden and 2 draws. Hopefully my buddy Cokeley will agree with me but I doubt he will!!LOL

Yes, but the argument is the overall tournament. With weight classes like 130 and 140 containing nationally ranked out of state competitors who beat Kansas’ finest wrestlers at these respective weights you would be highly inclined to give the nod to Garden City. But, just keep back pedaling cause you know you're wrong, Hoss.

For what it's worth. Maple is an outstanding wrestler and would do well at whatever weight he wrestles. Joey has never wrestled Maple in folkstyle. After the match with Ortega Joey said without a doubt Ortega was the best wrestler he has ever faced. Joey has had very tough tournaments in Derby and Basehor-Linwood @ 140. After watching Ortega and Snider last year and watching Ortega this year (via video) the Garden City 140 lb. bracket is as tough as it gets at the top end. Debry and Basehor were probably deeper at 140 (just my opinion). Furthermore, I enjoyed watching Joey wrestle Ortega. I would also like to see how some of the other top wrestlers would have done against him like Maple, Means, Madl, Blair, Zahorsky, Jesseph, Shavlik etc.

The argument used to be Newton vs. Basehor. I think that Basehor is as tough as it ever has been and maybe tougher, so if we are going to do this right, we should be discussing Basehor as well. I already know Cokeley's opinion because he was at Basehor. As far as 103, Basehor and Newton both were "tougher" than Garden City. Derby, which Emporia was 2nd at, was also tougher at some weights. Don't confuse a totally loaded tournament though with a tournament that has a few nationally ranked kids because of a couple of out of state powers.

All the more reason to have a Grand State - Than with no doubt it could be on of the toughest tournament's in Kansas.

RJohnson

I don't want to get drawn into a who would be who individually debate as I really like all of the wrestlers we are talking about. The data speaks for itself, this year, Garden City was the toughest tournament in Kansas. THIS YEAR... The Bobcat's level of competition was off this year. Very few brackets were more than 2 or 3 wrestlers deep. At GC there were brackets that were 6 deep. Newton is always tough but had NO out of state and less nationally ranked wrestlers. Just look at the number of state ranked wrestlers in every weight class. Illness and injury took its toll as well in GC. Canyon-Randal lost three of its best to injury and illness. Snider had the flu at 140 or it would have been a different story. He defeated Ortega at the RTOC earlier this season. We can all agree, I hope, that Hayes would not have beaten Snider if he had been healthy. The team scores from both tournaments speak for themselves. I think Colby should put GC on their schedule. It is closer than Liberal and much tougher so mix things up next year. Kevin and I can set there and judge each bracket and have a coaches meeting in the parking lot later!

I would guess that Colby will be in that tournament in a couple of years but right now they still have to compete in the NWKL tournament.

So what I am reading here is that there is no room for improvement from year to year. If you are basing all your information on the past performance of these kids, why are you having tournaments you already know whom is going to win. What about Jamill Kelly? He never won any high school titles and ended up winning a silver medal in the 2004 Olympics. Did the rest of the world wrestlers have the flu or injuried.? I guess we shouldn't have seen the wrestler that was going for 1st and 2nd wrestle because he had the flu, was vomiting during wrestling. I saw many good matchs in Garden City, some of the best wrestling I have seen. WHAT I AM EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN IS THE HAYS WRESTLER 145 WT CLASS. He shoved an opponent off the mat. The coaches congratulated him for his win and the ref did not give any warning to him rather warned the Scott City kid for leaving the mat. I was sitting near a father whom said this Hays wrestler is known to do this and also will use profanity while on the mat. I am a fan of wrestling because I feel this is a sport of gentleman. I feel wrestlers are dedicated young men and this is why I wanted my boys to get into wrestling. I feel it makes good men out of them. Maybe I am not the macho type that think only the 1st place or nationally ranked ones are winners.

Also in response to the Snider-Hayes match. I believe Snider was winning 6-0 when Hayes caught him in a mistake and capitalized on it. Isn't this what we teach our wrestlers to do?

If the Bobcat was off this year and "inferior" to Garden City, then why did Garden City themselves place 11th at both. Obviously the depth was equal. Furthermore, St. James Academy was 16th at Garden City and 20th at Basehor. I did not notice any brackets that were only 2-3 deep at Basehor, but perhaps I did not look hard enough. I know that for my son's bracket, a kid that was 7th at Basehor beat the 2nd place kid at Garden City a week earlier and a kid that was 4th at Garden City was 6th at Derby and 7th at Newton. So clearly of the 4 tournaments that I have mentioned, at my son's weight, Garden City was the easiest. I am smart enough to realize that would not be the case in every bracket but you must as well. I would say that some weights were tougher at Newton, some were tougher at Garden City and some were tougher at Basehor. Some were probably even tougher at Derby, but I would admit that Derby is probably overall not at the same level as the other three. I would say that the other three are very equal and I have seen no data to indicate that one of the three is tougher than the other two. The data that I have provided though would certainly indicate that you cannot make a blanket statement about Garden City being the toughest. No hating intended though. Have a great day!

Cokeley is only promoting his son & causses. His son is very good and doesn't need his dad's help. Each week and match is different. All wrestlers don't go to several camps and wrestle year round at a lot of out of state tournaments. Some have other interest and part time jobs and their parents can't afford for their kids to do this. As Cokeley once said to me, there are the have's and have not's when it comes to money and how they spend it. The money he has spent to help his son get a scholarship may have been invested to do the same thing, just in case the scholarship didn't come through.

Cokeley, looks like you picked up another fan. You really ought to quit taking Ryne to those camps and out of state tourneys, it really isn't fair to the rest of us. You probably are lobbying Obama and the congress for a stimulus package that would include some money for Ryne to go to Europe to wrestle. You never do anything except for your own kid. haha

This kid probably benefitted from some of your good work, and isn't smart enough to know it.

And I don't think the "wrestling scholarship" has a thing to do with it. Just maybe it has something to do with his kid having the drive to be great, and he is willing to help him in any way he can. Just like Will has helped hundreds of other kids that wanted to make themselves better.

758 25.1%

Newton
660 21.9%

Basehor
499 16.5%

Beloit
349 11.6%

Derby
164 5.4%

Other
125 4.1%

Eudora
120 4%

Valley Center
100 3.3%

Colby
90 3%

Gardner
75 2.5%

Rose Hill
59 2%

Liberal
20 0.7%

Now that all of the top five tournaments have been wrestled and the votes are in the poll says Garden City and I say Garden City so there is really no point in belaboring it any further! Next year it might be different but this year it, to me, was indisputable.

Now, I want to know what I have to gain by saying this is the toughest tournament? I went to three of the top five and I reviewed the data for all three (nationally ranked wrestlers, state ranked wrestlers, state ranked teams, and then compared the results) and now this is said:

How am I helping Ryne by promoting the GC Tournament? I am just promoting wrestling! I help ALL wrestlers not just my boys. Heck, Vernon, I would help yours too! I also like to support my statement that Kansas HS wrestling, in general, is lagging behind other states. None of this has anything to do with scholarships??? I am not sure when I have ever talked to Vernon because I don't even know who he is?? I have said over and over, I would be stupid to be doing what I do for my son and others if it were for scholarships. I could just save the money I spend and pay for him and the rest of my boys to go to college! It is about building character, work ethic, dedication, commitment, and friendships.

At the end of the day I can say I spent nearly every weekend with my sons when they were growing up. It is quality family time! My boys can set goals and I will help them in any way I can to reach them. Sometimes reaching the goal isn't near as valuable as the road traveled on the way to achieving them. To me that is what it is about.