woten didn't truly get 6th. he got kicked out (unfairly in most peoples opinions) and defaulted to 6th. he got 2nd last year. i'm not going to comment who the better chioce would be between him and the kid from bonner but hes a quality wrestler and is deserving of the spot. tanner probably is too and its to bad they can't both wrestle there.

As I asked the question about Tanner to begin with, I want to make sure everyone knows I was not saying anything negative about Woten. Since Richard the Great commented on a previous post that he had something to do with getting Woten disqualified, I figured it was unfair. But, the question is still not answered, what is the logic?? Was this done to make up for what happened at state. I know Tanner and have seen him wrestle and believe he is deserving. I do not know Woten, but believe what others say that he is deserving. But, Tanner is the 285. The point is what is the criteria, who makes the decision. As I would hate for them to ruin this kid's day and change thing, I hope the decision works out well. But, the decision appears political and lets hope it doesn't happen next year.

Yes 007 it is a shame that good, deserving kids have to be left off this team. I certainly do not want to question Jake Wotens’ credentials. It just seems logical that the choice would be between Woten and Nowak at 215#s. And yes that would mean a good deserving kid would still be left off the team, but at least they would be picked from the same weight class. I believe at the lower weight classes it would be easier to justify taking two great kids from the same weight class, and separating them in order to put the best team on the mat. But moving a 215#er up to heavyweight seems like a stretch in this situation. Especially with the year Tanner had at heavyweight. I know picking a team like this is impossible to do without leaving some good kids off and I do congratulate all who were selected!!

I want to start off saying that I don't know a thing about the kid from Bonner, but I do know about Woten, because he is my son. I think all the points that have been made on the HWT situation are valid, but here's my take on it. I think because it is seniors only that the selection process was probably each wrestler's body of work the entire 4 years they wrestled in high school. Again I don't know Tanner at all, but after doing some checking he wasn't even a state qualifier until this year. Now I don't know if he had just moved here, or hurt, or whatever. But Jake has been a quailfier for 3 years, has over a 100 wins in his career, and has wrestled HWT many times. He is naturally about 235-245 anyway but cuts to 215. State certainly didn't end up the way we wanted, and fair or unfair, we have dealt with it the past week and we are ready to move on. We were actually surprised to get the call Sunday, but there was no way we were going to turn down the oppurtunity to wrestle one last time. I do feel for Tanner's situation, but in an event like this there is always somebody thats get left out, that probably shouldn't have. I know this Kansas, Jake will give everything he has and do what it takes to win for our great state. Good luck to all the wrestlers! GO KANSAS!

Contrarian,

You are correct. Joe Pace's dad and mom were in the military. They were stationed on Fort Leavenworth and lived in Lansing. Joe wrestled with the Slammer Wrestling Club and was quite the monster. We called him "cross-face Joe" because he would make some kids nose bleed every practice (to include my youngest Nick).

The Pace's moved to Fort Hood, Texas. Joe made the papers several years back when both his mom and dad were deployed to Iraq. Joe lived with this grandparents and I believe Joe won the Texas state tourney as a freshman. The Pace's were reassigned to Fort Leavenworth and bought a house in Platte County were Joe has spent his high school years making Platte Country High one of the toughest wrestling schools in MO.

Will be fun watching all these kids get at it again at the Metro!

Mike Flynn

I definitely don't envy the job of the organizers of this because there are so many good wrestlers to choose from. In doing so, they've always made it a fantastic event, and the lineup this year looks great, too.
That said, I'll open this bag of worms as it seems it may apply to this thread: Why not just add one more match if there's such a debate? There already are two matches at 171, so it's not unprecedented. Of course, we could go through a lot of weight classes and say "why not this guy?"It's not the first time we've had this debate, nor will it be the last. I suppose that's a credit to the quality of wrestlers in this area.

The issue isnot to add another weight but why was a 215 selected to wrestle 285 when around the corner is a valid state 3rd placer winner. Its not what you did last year or 2 or 3 years ago, but what you did this year.

The organizers should post and explain their rationale for this year's hvy wt. selection.

Contrarian, where do you come up with the idea that it is what you did this year and not what you did 2 or 3 years ago??? Is that the actual criteria or is that just your opinion? I believe the “selectors” do look at a wrestlers total career, as WrestlingFan 14 pointed out! But I do not know what the actual criteria is, and I Believe that is exactly the point John Johnson was making by posting his original question about Tanner McCleary . The organizers are certainly not under any obligation to explain themselves on an internet talk forum. My only hope is that the selection process is as fair as possible and not influenced too much by coaches’ lobbying efforts, which I am sure has to happen a little bit. I will be cheering for every kid out there. Good luck to all of them!!

It seems that I am not the only one who wonders how the 215 pounder got seleceted over the 295 placer. If every one is so hot about this 216 pounder, then select him to wrestle the MO 215. And yes I do think the most current recors/accomplishment/deed/what ever should be woprth a lot of goody points. I use to be 170 lbs, dark curly hair, good lookin, debonair, smooth, had money in my pocket, and had a very nice ride. 35 years later I have a shed over my tool, thin white hair, yellow teeth, liver spots, my kids have my money, and my ride is is a rusty 1991 pickup. But lovin it all the way. And, I too will be at Classic rootin for all the wrestlers, Kansas, Missouri, and whom ever the Kansas heavy weight is.

Thanks for you comment!!

I believe the point has been made. There is no need to compare kids who have not wrestled. As I will be at practice w/ my son that night. I am looking forward to reading Randy's report.

I would recommend skipping one night of practice and let your son experience the atmosphere of the metro classic. If that doesn’t get him fired up to wrestle sub-district nothing will!!

i know the 215/HWT debate is over but i am curious...what are the guidelines for those who select the wrestlers? do they select those with the best season, best career, best chance to win?

its simple meet at a nuetral site and challenge. wrestle off, if both boys are serious as the adults are it should be a great match. the stands should be full too!

After reading the posts it is still unclear to me who selects this team. What criteria are used in the selection process? This is turning into a big event and these questions should be answered. It is a fact that deserving kids will be left out every year but if the selection criteria is public knowledge then at least it would be understood why they were left out. In a case like the heavyweights this year why isn't a wrestle off used?

Seeing Woten several times this year, I think he's a good choice at heavyweight. I don't know anything about Tanner, but I know Woten took second last year and a lot of people I talked to thought his semi-final match this year with Caylor really should have been the finals match.

Personally, I'd be pretty comfortable putting him on the mat with most heavy weights. He's pretty athletic at 215 and if 235-245 is his natural weight, I'd put him in the line-up. My reasoning would be that at the big weights you have Nowak, Woten and Tanner to choose from. Of those, I would say Nowak (3x placer-twice at HVY) and Woten (2x placer) have the best resumes. That's not to take anything away from Tanner. It sounds like he had an amazing season. I just think Woten had the better career and has the athleticism to overcome the difference in weight.

if the selection criteria is about rewarding the best senior season at each weight obviously the wrong selection was made. if the selection criteria was about rewarding the senior with the best career including his senior year the right selection was made. if the selection criteria is about who gives kansas the best chance to win, that would be debatable (however I believe in that case the right selection was made).

Great! We got that settled. Team Kansas is set and ready to wrestle!

I look forward to hearing the results of this event every year. I'm not as familiar with the Missouri guys in this event since I am way out west, but I've seen a lot of the Kansas guys on the list and wish I could make the trip to see this event. Good Luck Kansas!

Do they ever sell DVD's of this event?

Yes they do Coach! And I will have a narrative report, in the wee hours of Thursday morning!!

We are looking forward to your report Randy. Have missed you on the forum lately. Too bad the Cadet duals aren't still here. We sure had it good for awhile!