First of all I would like to express my dissapointment in the director of the Kansas kids state touranment this weekend. I seems like every year I get extremely excited to head to Topeka and watch these kids who have worked so hard to get there. But, every year I leave with a bad taste left from the Team HARD KNOX coaches. Why the refrees, security, and director of this touranment puts up with these coaches amazes me.

Please don't take this wrong, the Team HARD KNOX kids are extremely talents( No one's going to argue that Matt Reed isn't one of the best talented wrestlers out there). If Kansas wants to add some integerity to this sport, then throw these coaches(NOT THE KIDS) out as soon as they start problems(which is every year at state).

I would like to know what others think on this issue. By the way, I talked to the head of security Saturday and they said that they would love to throw this teams coaches out when they start trouble, but it's up to the director of the touranment.

You're kind of a coward to call someone out and not sign your name aren't you. why? are you sceeered.

I'm a litter confused by your comment. Are you implying that you want my firt name J.

mines Jerry and most people know me.
Jerry Dale

Ok, mine is Mike and most people don't know me. New as of today. I'm not posting here to learn names. Just giving a opinion on something I've seen for the last two years at a kids event that I don't see on the highschool or college level.

I don't expect Christmas cards next year for giving my first name, but just some honest opinions. If that's not possibly than I'm sorry I've wasting your and mine time.

I get so tired of seeing these posts. If you don't know who specifically you're talking about , why come on here and make generalizations about a whole group of coaches? There are many people that coach for this club that have never been kicked out of a tournament myself included.
Also it's a rule of this forum I believe that if you wanna post deregatory comments about people you should at least have the decency to leave your name.

On a side note Jerry tell Jared congrats on his state championship!And "mvukas" if you really wanna see a coach acting out watch for that nutjob from team x-treme!!

Jason Murdock

nice Jason. I'll tell Jared he's already getting a big head.


Nutjob
Jerry Dale
Team Xtreme

Mike:

There are sportsmanship issues with numerous clubs.

In my twenty plus years in the sport Coach Knox and Coach Taylor, Sr. and I have had some highly spirited debates while mat side. NEVER have I witnessed Coach Knox, Coach Taylor, or his sons behave in the manner which you speak.

Let us not confuse poor sportsmanship on the part of individual fans with that of team leadership.

Coach Taylor and Coach Knox are aware of these issues and have been attempting and will continue to attempt to teach more appropriate sportsmanship.

While you may be unaware a TOHK fan was removed from the floor for his display of unsportsmanlike conduct.

I dont feel that it is just TOHK that does this as I seen it from other teams and coaches as well..I feel its just more noticed cause everyone expects it and looks for it out of TOHK..I have to say the way the coach from Boos school when Spangler and boo lost was not the way a coach of any team should act..Its about sportsmanship and is for the kids but if adults and coaches act this way then it only makes the kids feel they can act this way as well..Someone has to lose so why not give the one who won the credit where credit is due..I give all of the Great wrestlers who made it to State and the Finals rounds ALOT OF CREDIT Its a great honor to be there lets not forget we are all there for the same reason to support our children and teammates..I can understand fighting a call or questioning a ref for legit reasons but if you lost fair and square dont make the kid or situation worse by making a Scene..Tell the kids Good Job and go get them next year..My son really wanted a place this year..he said before we left momma I dont care if I have to stand on the floor I just want my picture taken..so when he lost on the 2nd day I was crushed, as was he..But he did his best and that is what matters..He has been wrestling 3 years and made it to state every year but he always loses his first 2 and done the first day well not this year he lost won lost but he made it to the 2nd day got to be with his friends from all over the state he has made the years he has wrestled..he got a new singlet and was the escort for Steve Kyler at the senior classic and on the way home he said mom That was the Best Weekend It was fun I cant wait for next year..Now thats what its all about..

Richard,

You are right. Anyone can buy a coaches pass and be on the floor. To assume that everyone on the floor represent HARD KNOX coaching was wrong. First I'd like me apologize to the HARD KNOX coaches if this is the case.

Mike Vukas

If anybody has that big of a problem with them, then I insist that you avoid any tournaments they may be at. However, do that at your own risk because they're always going to be bringing tons of kids to state and always competing for the team title. Otherwise you're just gonna have to deal with it.
One thing you may do is pay more attention to their talented wrestlers instead of waiting for one of their coaches to do something. Their kids are talented and even more important they are made for the next level. I'd go out on a limb to say they have more college wrestlers out of their club right now than any other club in the state and I don't see that changing any time soon either. I know that without T.O.H.K. I likely wouldn't be anywhere close to the level I'm at today in my wrestling ability.

Curtis
I have to agree with you. T.O.H.K. has a bad rep but they are great coaches that produce some outstanding talent. Another amazing thing about them is that they are in it for their kids and willing to fight for what they feel is right. No, they are not always right but who is. Personally I would like to see more coaches have the nerve to fight for their kids instead of just saying, "Oh well, there's always next year." To often I see coaches just walk off after a match and never say anything to the kids, good or bad. This can quickly put off the feeling that it is just another job for the coach and not a passion. I believe that the actions of T.O.H.K. and the many other caoches that argue for the sake of their kid are driven by passion for the sport and the kids.

I agree, there are many very talented kids that come out of their club. I guess that I have seen the "bad" side of some of the coaches. Yes, I know that not all of their coaches argue and make a scene, but it does only take one to do damage to their reputation. Yes, I have seen other coaches from other teams lose their cool and make a scene too. I just think that some of them are rude. I congratulate them on the many kids who took state. I hope my opinion of them change next year.

To any and all that have posted on this topic. I do know ALL of the TOHK coaches personally. I know Mike Vukas personally. In fact I know most who have posted personally so here is what I can tell you: Much of what has been said on this post is the truth. Coach Knox and Coach Taylor Sr. do NOT typically engage in the intimidation warfare. In defense of Mr. Vukas's comments. When the entire section supporting this team boos a competitor and then continues to throw objects at the official what else do you do? If you are new to the game you have to generalize. Did any other team make themselves overly apparent in such a negative way during the tournament? I am no angel to the officials either but I promise that I have gotten by with WAY, WAY less than what happened this weekend. In fact, Jerry Dale has been asked to leave for doing nothing more than being irritating. I am not going to go into the name the culprits as they know who they are or have been. I put up with the remarks and attempted intimidation for years. It has passed and I am thankful for this but I know it has continued to happen to others. I wish it would stop because I do know that all of them want the best for their wrestlers but in the end we all do and not all of us lose control of our actions and words. The bottom line is two sets of rules have evolved over the years. One set for TOHK and another for the rest of us. If the same set were applied uniformly to all of us this post we not be necessary.

Danny, Sean, Ulysses, Charlie, Quincy, Kenny, and the rest of the staff are assets to our organization but they could be so much more valuable if they would accept the fact that bad calls happen and that it is okay to lose even if it was because of a bad call. I know this is hard to accept but the good calls will NOT come if you make such a huge deal out of the bad ones. I know it is hard because I refuse to accept it so I try to stay out of the corner as much as possible.

I know Mike Vukas too. He is not a coward and he doesn't have anything against a single person involved with TOHK. I doubt either of his boys have ever wrestled a TOHK wrestler. He is new to the sport and not used to seeing a group (again, generally speaking) go so over the top. He just wrote down on this forum what many others have been afraid to say or write in the past.


Until next year...

2BENTLEYMOM, WERE YOU MATSIDE WHEN THE BOOS' SCHOOL COACH WAS, (IN YOUR OPINION) NOT ACTING LIKE ANY COACH SHOULD ACT??? YOUR QUOTE IS THIS: "I can understand fighting a call or questioning a ref for legit reasons but if you lost fair and square dont make the kid or situation worse by making a Scene" If you are unaware and obviously you are, the coaches job is to argue bad calls with the ref. That is exactly what they were doing. In fact Mrs. Clueless, during Spangler's match, there was a coach from another club arguing with the ref as well so something tells me that they must have been right. Spangler is my son and I will say I am glad that we have the coaches that we do and aren't afraid to go to battle for each and everyone of our clubs wrestlers. You are right in saying it is about the kids but when my son loses because a ref blows a call then we have every right to be upset and so does my son.
Like our state shirt said, "If getting there was your goal great job, WE CAME FOR THE HARDWARE."

Our coaches don't prepare our kids to qualify, they prepare them to be champions.

Traci Spangler

So just how upset do you or others have a "right" to get over a bad or blown call? I think that is the question that needs to be answered here.

I too would much rather have a coach with some passion for the sport and kids, versus one that never questions a "bad" call.

I'm saying that we have a right to be mad. We have the right to argue a call. Plain and simple is that to hard to understand? I know they didn't curse at the ref they did their job and unfortunately it didn't turn out in our favor.

Traci Spangler

Ok, we established that now! So, if I have a tendency to curse when I get "mad", (which I do), is that acceptable?