Jordan Keller transfers to OU from Cleveland State! He joins Caldwell, Detmer, Maple, Bach (and Madl)in Norman. It's a good time to be a Sooner!

Dang, all these Kansas boys are making it hard to root against the Sooners!

K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

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HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.

Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.

You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.

After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.

Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.

The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.

I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

State tournaments are great place to push a grassroots effort.

K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
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141
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HWT

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#156927 - Yesterday at 06:48 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
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184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#156935 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

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#156966 - Yesterday at 11:43 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Bauerly]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

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#157047 - Yesterday at 10:59 PM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Ricky Bobby
Member

Registered: December, 05 2006
Posts: 536
Loc: The South (or more precisely ... Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.


Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.
_________________________
If you ain't first, you're last!

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#157060 - Today at 06:16 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Ricky Bobby]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#157064 - Today at 07:20 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

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#157068 - Today at 08:08 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/




Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

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#157079 - Today at 09:00 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.


Edited by smokeycabin (20 minutes 48 seconds ago)
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#157082 - 52 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#157087 - 13 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

John Johnston
Member

Registered: July, 30 2001
Posts: 127
Loc: Prairie Village, KS I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

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#157090 - 2 minutes 45 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: John Johnston]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

Who moved my post and why?

This should be its own topic about WSU, KSU or KU
it did start under a different topic but it is going a different direction.

DI Wrestling In Kansas ?? [Re: Chief Renegade]
smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1207
Loc: Shawnee Kansas State tournaments are great place to push a grassroots effort.

K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

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#156927 - Yesterday at 06:48 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#156935 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

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#156966 - Yesterday at 11:43 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Bauerly]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

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#157047 - Yesterday at 10:59 PM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Ricky Bobby
Member

Registered: December, 05 2006
Posts: 536
Loc: The South (or more precisely ... Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.


Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.
_________________________
If you ain't first, you're last!

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#157060 - Today at 06:16 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Ricky Bobby]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#157064 - Today at 07:20 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

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#157068 - Today at 08:08 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/




Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

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#157079 - Today at 09:00 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.


Edited by smokeycabin (20 minutes 48 seconds ago)
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#157082 - 52 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

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#157087 - 13 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

John Johnston
Member

Registered: July, 30 2001
Posts: 127
Loc: Prairie Village, KS I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

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#157090 - 2 minutes 45 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: John Johnston]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

Actually,K-State would still work and they are probably much closer in terms of Title IX compliance than you think. Why you ask? For the same reason Oklahoma State is! It's called a Varsity Equestrian Team. Check it out the next time you are on either schools web page and you will see a large number of girls on their teams and on scholarship which allows them to be much closer in regards to balancing out those dreadful Football numbers.

But they won't be that close to compliance if they add a men's wrestling team is the point. This will mean they will have to add even more women's teams in some other sports. WSU on the other hand could add men's wrestling and add one woman's sport or maybe none at all, and be just fine. Those pictures of equestian teams are fine but we don't know how many of those women are actually on scholarship. Regardless of where we want a D1 program, it all comes down to money and I think even the AD's at KU and KSU will tell you that WSU is the best option bar none.

That is why I suggested that the attention be focused on K-State, because they have a women's program that they should, no need to add in softball. It is one of the most popular women's sports there is and Kansas State does not field a team. The scholarship numbers balance out with 12 full scholarships available in Division 1 softball compared to 9.9 for DI wrestling. If K-State is already in compliance with Title IX then adding softball and wrestling would make them plus 3 in women's scholarships.

There is already a strong club background at K-State. Tons of fan support would come from the Manhattan area with powerhouse high school programs located in nearby Clay Center, Junction City, and Manhattan. Not to mention two of the larger kid's wrestling clubs in the state with Clay County and Manhattan Optimist. K-State was also host to the USAWKS Folkstyle Summer Wrestling Camp for several years with clinicians like Bo Maynes.

K-State was also in the process of fund raising for massive upgrades to its facilities which would include new basketball practice facilities and press box updates for the football stadium. They could easily add on a wrestling room to the area they are planning to put the practice facility.

Kansas State has the advantage of having new administration that was just added this past year at both the President of the University and the Athletic Director positions. I'm sure they would be more than willing to listen to a proposal that would bring in numerous student athletes to programs that could be nationally competitive. Especially if they are shown the participation numbers of the wrestling programs in the state. I believe we're ranked 8th overall in high school wrestling participation in the nation. How does a state that high in participation numbers not have a DI program?

K-State is a part of a conference that has a championship series, the Big 12. Wichita State would have to go to the western region that the lone Missouri Valley program, Northern Iowa, goes to. The western region qualifies far fewer wrestlers while having more programs attend. K-State would help add to the number of qualifiers that the Big 12 could have, making it more competitive with the Big 10. I'm sure the 5 other Big 12 teams would like to fill some more spots in brackets at nationals.

It just makes too much sense for K-State not to add a program and to be the school that USAWKS seeks to add a Division 1 program first.