It's hard to pick up much from these vids (closed hand/open hand...warning/or not). However, one thing that that jumped out at me from the second vid was that the whistle was not even in the officials mouth yet when the the false start occured.

The second thing I noticed about "both" vids is that neither had sound. Sound may have shed more light on what the official was thinking. I probably wouldn't have made the same call, but don't blame or second guess the official for making the call made in this case.

I agree that it is time to move on. I think Moeder keeps his composure and wins any rematch big.

If they wrestle 100 times Moder wins 99 times. This time (the DQ) was the one in a hundred that he loses.

Moder was winning 10-3 with 30 seconds already gone from the final period.

But, yep. I'm ready to let it go. And, I sure would not want to wrestle him in a rematch if I was the other kid. He better be praying he never wrestles Moder again (I know I would be)! Ha.

Classy! Very classy.

PROBABLY THE TRUEST POST ABOUT THIS MATCH.

I saw earlier on the posts that Cade Blair was unbeaten, who has beaten Chase NItcher if anyone?

I'm not pussifying shxt believe me I love to see Moeder wrestle but I dont care how good you are or what you think you mean to this sport if you throw a swing open handed or closed out of maddness and for what reason, you get what you deserve. and I think Mr. Moeder is alright with it so move on big guy let go now. And yes a tripod would have been nice for that camera operator.
Mike Rodriguez
(620)255-1001

The answer is easy as to why I did not "rip" into Will. It was not for fear of looking like a fool, I can do that just fine on my own, as apparently you can also. Will stated before he posted anything that


It would have been rather pointless to get on here and say, "Will, that was wrong." He already knows my stance on the subject. I was kind of hurt he did not call me Mr. Beeson though.

Oh no not me beeson its hard for me but like you said easy for you, I just was waiting to hear from you and sporto but as you stated you guys did look pretty foolish with the last post about talking with a ref.

Moeder beat Nitcher at the Derby tourny

I never stated that I looked foolish on the last post about approaching an official. I stand behind that statement 100%, it is wrong for any fan or parent to approach an official, that is the coaches job.

Trust me it is easier for you to look foolish than you think... your doing it right now, and don't even know it.

i believe it's time for the grievance committee of the HA club to step in. what will it be fellas? thumb wars? mercy? Indian leg wrestling? you decide, i will ref. btw in any of the above mentioned forms of combat, it is within the grievance committees boundaries to allow OR not allow, swings to the face. open handed or otherwise.

the grievance committee would like to issue a warning to all parties partaking in name calling. this can be hurtful to ones feelings, and psyche...........OH W.T.H if we can't get along...........you know the rest.

take a few deep breaths and get over yourselves. otherwise this could get UGLY.

I went to the top of the totum pole, Chief Ricky Bowden or MR. BOWDEN. He has made our exchange public so if anyone cares to read KSHSAA's take on it shoot me a request. Then you can post it if you want to.

It has been several years since I have posted on these forums, but I still check in from time to time to read up on a few friends that are still in the high school ranks. That being said, I feel compelled to comment here.

I find it absolutely unbelievable that this thread has stretched to 12 pages despite the fact that all of the involved parties seemed to have moved on. Tim and his son have accepted what happened, realized nothing's going to change it at this point and are viewing it as a learning experience. The other wrestler's mother has clearly stated that this was not how her son would have liked to win the match but that she just wants her son to be safe and for competitors to compete in a gracious manner. Without having seen the match myself I feel that both reactions are pretty reasonable and mature ways to handle the situation.

So, for so many people on this board to be so indignant about what happened and to spend so much time complaining about it and the "pussification" of wrestling is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Maybe you all needed a lesson like this when you were younger so that you could heed your own advice to suck it up, take adversity as it comes and move on.

Lastly, I can't believe that so few people have a problem with Mr. Cokeley directly contacting a referee to harrass him about a call he made and then proclaiming a public "tar and feathering" is in order. If that's not over-stepping the bounds of rationality then I don't know what is. Give the guy a break; nobody's perfect and I guarantee you he was not actively trying to "screw" Moeder. I have a hard time believing this particular ref wasn't trying his best to call a fair match and refs in general don't get paid enough to have to deal with that type of BS from fans outside the gym.

It's funny. After reading through this thread I think the board might have been more mature back when I used to post along with Prant and Jhris.

-Mark

Hey Mark! Good to hear from you again.

Cokeley knows the ref and it's not what you think. The public tar and feathering was a joke,(kind of). Certainly the Moeders are taking the high road as I expected they would and all involved are stuck with the result of the match.

However, it is an apathetic stance to suggest that in every situation we should suck it up and move on. That breeds a lack of accountability. Admitting ones mistakes is a cleansing process, improving the chance of not repeating them. As to the "P" issue, it's real and is creeping up on all of us.

About giving the ref a break, I actually like Jeff and think that he's an above average ref. Reviewing film and discussing calls improves his skills. Just saying nobody's perfect and blowing it off is part of the problem.

At the end of the day, we learn. It's all good Mark!

Go Lancers!

Great to hear from you too, Chief. Miss seeing you around on Saturdays...luckily I've been able to catch a bit of wrestling up here from time to time. The benefits of having a D-1 team compete within a 10 minute walk of where you live! Also had a chance to meet up with Baker a few weeks ago. UNO was in town and he was filming for them.

Regarding the ref, if he and Cokeley have a personal relationship then I understand it's different. I was frankly wondering where he got the contact information in the first place.

Regarding the "suck it up and move on" comment, I did not mean to suggest that there should be a lack of accountability. Frankly, that's what's so admirable to me about the Moeders' stances. They disagree with the decision but they also realize that there were certain things done on their end that could have been avoided. Hence they're taking it as a learning experience and, hopefully, growing from it.

With the ref I'm also not saying that he shouldn't be working to improve himself either or be held accountable for a poor call, whether or not he gave it his best effort. Especially in a situation like this where the call was a highly questionable one. I'm all for reviewing past matches, discussing different viewpoints and developing as a ref. In fact I encourage it, because without different viewpoints people certainly become set in their ways and often fail to see things outside of their comfort zone. The same viewpoint can be applied to many things in life, not just here. The issue I had was with the way he was being approached. But, as noted before, that may just be ignorance on my part regarding the relationship between Cokeley and the relevant ref.

Finally, with the "P" issue. I've always erred to the side of "let it go" when it comes to rough wrestling. I haven't seen the tape (video-sharing websites are blocked at my office) but I have a feeling that I would agree with most here that it was a call that shouldn't have been made. I'm just surprised at the fact that there's been so much discussion so far on one case...specifically when the involved parties seem to be over it.

Just my thoughts...slow day at the office after all.

-Mark

The whole point of my protest to the official and KSHSAA as well as to all of the other officials I know, is to make sure FM is ONLY applied as it should be, when something FLAGRANT happens (disgraceful, monstrous, egregious. Flagrant, glaring, gross, outrageous, rank are adjectives suggesting extreme offensiveness)not when there has just been an act of unsportsmanlike conduct or unnecessary roughness. I KNOW that EVERYONE who reads this board would error on the side of allowing the wrestlers to decide the match. Rick could care less about the well being of the student athlete in cases where the official has errored. We have NO officials evaluation system, NO succession plan for officials, NO recourse for those who make mistakes and need more training. In two weeks we have had two glaring misapplications of FM. The student athlete is humiliated and penalized with a loss. The student athlete who works up to 11 months perfecting his skills and stamina sometimes 20 to 25 hours a week and their reward it to have their hand raised. Many of our officials don't spend that much time a year preparing because there is ABSOLUTELY no accountability. The BEST officials are NOT rewarded with the best tournaments and assignments because KSHSAA is so apathetic that they dont have an evaluation or rating system of any make or model. If no one cares enough to complain then there will be no change and thus NO improvement.

The US Education systems have become so imbalanced with liberal policies and lack of male influence that our young men are being emasculated! This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Nice post Will, the kids do work their butts off and to have a ref make a wrong call is unfair. In my boys situation Mr. Bowden showed up to a meet and watched the tape with our AD. The AD informed me that my son did nothing wrong for a FM. The bad thing is the ref wrote pure lies in his report and nothing to this date has been done.

What am I going to do with this truckload of feathers and the 20 gallons of tar? I was gonna use my turkey cooker to heat up the tar, so I didn't bear any additional expense from there. Will, you better be prepared to reimburse me. Next time tell me when you are joking!!!

I think it is emasculating to have all the moms and dads complaining about their kid being treated unfairly by refs who make a perceived bad call. My sons both would have been very upset if either their dad or I got so involved in fighting a battle for them. We are here to advise them and discuss options, but particularly in sports, they deal with the coach, opponents, refs, etc. That is how you teach them to be men. I also think all the use of the “p” word by grown men is pretty juvenile.

I do agree that there should be some procedure for evaluating refs, but this should be approached as an overall performance, not specific calls in one or two matches. I agree with LancerM that we are seeing way too much whining on the forum this season about specific matches and potentially wrong calls by the ref. Until we have instant replay, it really doesn't matter what we think or even see on youtube after the fact.

Before you discount me as just a mom, which in itself is wrong, know that I grew up with 3 brothers, have been married for over 30 years and have raised 2 sons who are doing pretty darn well.

Times were much tougher in the disco era.