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novice wrestlers #10189 01/21/03 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Mark Stanley Offline OP
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There has been a great deal of chat on the USAWKS Kids Forum concerning the eligibility of wrestlers participating in novice tournaments. I would appreciate it if USAWKS would take a position on this discussion. It appears that clarification is badly needed. Now…for my two cents! I know this is a very emotional topic for some. I only hope this may spark further discussion that will clarify to all who is eligible to participate in novice tournaments.

I believe that the intentions of the novice circuit are to allow beginner and intermediate wrestlers the opportunity to develop the skills necessary to succeed in this sport at a venue that is more structured towards learning and less on pure competition. In order to achieve this goal, limitations have been imposed on those who can compete in novice tournaments. I see the phrase, “This is a NOVICE tournament (only 1st and 2nd year wrestlers) NO STATE PLACERS”, on every novice tournament flyer that come in the mail. Wrestlers are also given greater leeway for rookie infractions, such as locked hands. Greater explanation is given by officials and coaches at mat side making the novice circuit very valuable to wrestler skill development. Brackets are usually round robin allowing for greater mat time than the conventional double elimination. Round robin brackets also take a little of the competitive aspect away by putting less emphasis on placement. I personally think that all novice tournaments should be a round robin format.

Our club actually uses the novice circuit as a recruiting tool when talking to new kids and parents about the sport. We have eight novice venues on our tournament schedule this year. This is sometimes hard on volunteer coaches but good for the kids. It needs to be pointed out to the parents that victories are not guaranteed. The variance in skill level and aggressiveness is often more noticeable at these tournaments than at open venues. Wrestlers often take large leaps in skill level as they develop. The growth chart of a wrestler during his first two years will often look more like a stock market chart than that of a car going from 0-60mph.

As a parent I watched my son struggle for a year while his skills were behind his peers. Each time my son came off of the mat I encouraged him by telling him what he did right and schooled him on the mistakes he made. Not once did I tell my son that he did not have a chance to beet another wrestler. In my sons first two years we attended novice tournaments and often wrestled kids that placed at major open tournaments … and he got soundly beet. Yes…I did find this frustrating. But you know what; my son is a better wrestler today because of it. In his first year he lost more matches than he won. In his second year he won more than he lost and this year he is an undefeated open tournament wrestler who has six open tournament championships under his belt. Along this journey he has developed a love for the sport. What I think has been lost in this discussion to date is that often you learn as much from your losses as you do from your victories. My son greatly appreciates the success he is experiencing because of his struggles in the past…not in spite of them. Champions are built through their experiences with adversity.

Each of us has been to novice tournaments and seen kids with blossoming skills. This success is largely attributable to the novice program. However this beginner or intermediate wrestler is often jeered at mat side by an unhappy parent or opposing coach because he has been able to achieve a certain level of success. I believe there is a communication gap about who is eligible to compete on the novice circuit.

Is the novice program being abused…most likely yes? I say shame on those who are abusing it. However, I do feel that the novice circuit should be for ALL first and second year wrestlers who qualify. The diversity in skill level between a beginner (first year) and intermediate (second year) wrestlers is good for the program as a whole and both should be classified as novice wrestlers. Beginner wrestlers are exposed to intermediate wrestlers without the intensity of an open tournament and intermediate wrestlers can work to perfect the skills that are critical to their development. Skills that until perfected will seldom work on experienced wrestlers at Saturday open tournaments.

Classifying 10 and 12 year old wrestlers is often harder than 6 and 8 year olds. This year one of my wrestlers is a second year wrestler that is in the bottom of the 12 year old class. He has developed his skills to an intermediate level. He has attended several open tournaments and rookie mistakes have prevented him from achieving any significant success. He has not placed in an open event all year. He also attends novice tournaments as a second year wrestler and rarely looses a match. However, because our club has introduced him to more than one pinning combination, a couple of different escapes, and how to capitalize on the mistakes of his opponent (none of which he has developed beyond intermediate level) he is treated as someone who does not belong. If a wrestler is loosing on Saturdays and still qualifies to attend novice tournaments, would I not be doing him a disservice by not letting him attend and gain valuable mat time to perfect his budding skills? I learned that at a novice tournament this past weekend an opposing coach approached and berated him for having wrestled at an open tournament on Saturday and being entered in the novice event on Sunday. This is wrong on so many levels. First, whoever this coach was should have discussed it with me or another member of my coaching staff and not discussed it with this 12-year-old wrestler prior to his championship bout. I would have gladly given him the wrestlers name and USAW membership number so he could independently verify his years of experience. His action was irresponsible and upset the wrestler, it upset the parent and it upset me. The way I see it, this young wrestler was paying his dues on Saturday, as he does at each open tournament, and is learning from his losses ….he did not place on Saturday.

I do not know of any rule that excludes kids from attending Open and Novice tournaments on the same weekend. I believe that it is somewhat at the coach’s discretion whether the wrestler’s skills have developed beyond novice and intermediate level. For example if a wrestler consistently places at the major or mid-major open tournaments we do not allow them to participate on the novice circuit. However, if you qualify then you qualify. Any quibbling at mat side is counter productive and will often instill a defeatist and excuse-laden attitude in the loosing wrestler.

I would support efforts to police the two-year rule. For this to be effective a tiered discipline plan would have to be developed and adhered to. A plan should also be put in place for wrestlers which may never advance beyond the intermediate level. A waiver could be granted allowing them to compete in novice tournaments. Any system would be better than the “witch hunt” we currently have.

Good luck at mat side and remember that the reason we all devote our time is for the KIDS. It is their sport and it is our job to serve as mentors and moderators.

Respectfully Submitted,
Mark J Stanley
President/Club Director
Junior Viking Wrestling Club

Re: novice wrestlers #10190 01/22/03 06:39 PM
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AMEN to THAT!!!


brandee
Re: novice wrestlers #10191 01/22/03 09:23 PM
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my4kids Offline
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I could not agree with you anymore, my 8yr old boy got jumped at a novice tournment, and its his second year...He had not placed at the Saturday tournement and went and wrestled the novice the next day... My son was very scared and intimadated by this person, and hides when he sees him at meets...Its not right...This coach told my husband that he is not a novice because he was pumping him self up before he got on the mat and that intimadated the kids he was wrestling ....My 8yr old will not go back to any novice tournments this year, we are done with it..The novice tournments sure dont have any problem on making that money we pay to have our kid in there tournments....THanks again for addressing it...Amiee

Re: novice wrestlers #10192 01/22/03 11:47 PM
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jayhawkmom Offline
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WOW, THUMBS UP TO YOU MARK. I COULD NOT OF SAID THAT BETTER. WE HAVE JUST STARTED OUR CLUB HERE IN LAWRENCE, AND ONLY HAVE JR. HIGH KIDS. ALL BUT ONE BOY IS TRUELY NOVICE. WE HAVE 4 WRESTLERS THAT ARE SECOND YEAR COMPETITORS AND THE REST ARE FIRST YEAR. SINCE OUR CLUB HAS LESS GRAPPLERS, WE HAVE ALOT OF "ONE ON ONE"AND ARE BEING SCRUTINIZED BY OTHER CLUBS. I AM GOING TO REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT GIVING THE OPPONENTS COACH HIS/HER #. WE ALSO HAVE A BOY WITH DOWNS SYNDROME WHO HAS NEVER WON A MATCH. I WONDER IF WE WILL BE PUT DOWN IF IN HIS THIRD YEAR WE STILL SIGN HIM UP FOR NOVICE. WE HAVE SEVERAL CLUB MEMBERS THAT ARE IN THE LOWEST WEIGHT CLASS AND CANNOT SEEM TO GET THEM BRACKETED NOVICE TOURNAMENT, SOOOO WE ALSO PUT THEM IN THE OPEN TOURNAMENT THE FOLLOWING DAY. BUT ONCE AGAIN AS I SAID, THEY ARE TRUELY NOVICE. AGAIN BRAVO TO YOU MARK, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ALL OF YOUR OUTLOOKS ON THIS SUBJECT. THANKS

Re: novice wrestlers #10193 01/23/03 03:55 PM
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I am in total agreement with "Mark" up to a certain point. My boy is an above average first year wrestler (he has been wrestling since October)and is doing a great job.So far, he has met the second year kid Mark is talking about twice and probably gave him the best matches he has had at novice tournaments. All the other wrestlers he spanks soundly or pins in the first or early second period. What help is that to him and what help is it to the kids that he wipes the mat with. My 14 and under son has been wrestling 4 years and does OK but usually does not get into the finals. When he was a novice, he placed regularly 3rd or 4th. He got beat a lot so we kept him at novice and he wrestled some open his second year. That was it. There will never be a hard and fast rule. You have to decide when your wrestler is ready for open and let him wrestle it. Are they going to get beat some? YES. But take our own advice Mark and let the kids that are truely novice that don't have all the "moves" that your kid does and give them a chance too. You are hiding behind the "he is a second year wrestler" phrase. You met me at Tonganoxie with his name and card number ready. Sounds like we might have a bit of a guilty conscience there. And if more than one person said something to you or to your wrestler (which is very wrong) other people are seeing the difference in your wrestler and novice wrestlers and you should probably step back and take a look and see if he should be wrestling on Saturday and losing some (and as you say, getting better) or wrestling on Sunday and just winning. There is a lot more to being a winner than having your name on the right line on the bracket.

Re: novice wrestlers #10194 01/23/03 07:34 PM
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Mark Stanley Offline OP
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I apologize if I sounded a little defensive after our last match. I was that way because my wrestler was approached by the opposing coach I mentioned earlier just fifteen minutes prior to your comments. I did not know for sure who it was that had ambushed him so when I heard your comments my frustration was somewhat peaked. This was the first time that this particular wrestler has been targeted. Although I have been witness to others having this problem. I feel that if the tournaments do not want second year wrestlers at these meets then the standards should change. If that were to happen, I think that overall wrestler skill development would suffer. The novice circuit should be utilized as a spring board into successful wrestling in the open tournaments. It seems that some liken it to walking the gang plank. No bounce at all … just a hard drop.

I do stand by my earlier statement. This particular wrestler belongs in the "novice" class. On that particular Sunday he was 3-0, but he did have two challenging matches where a lot was learned. I do wish this particular tournament would have been arranged in a round robin format. I think the double “elimination” format is often more discouraging to kids beginning in this sport than going up against a second year wrestler.

We have and plan to continue to mix in some open tournament wresting for him.
Your son is a very fine wrestler. I will defend his right to continue perfecting his skills on the novice circuit next year. I am not medal hunting with my wrestlers. At the end of the day, our club focus' more of our energy on what our kids have done right or what they can work to develop further than carving notches in our belt. Tell your son to keep his head up and I am sure he will get more that his share of victories this year!

Mark


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