Maybe there is a lot of bashing of Bowden on this site, that is not my intention at all. Bowden is, no doubt, a sincere, honest, and hard working professional. However, you can not put anyone in power for prolonged periods of time and not accept the strings that are attached. In business we have competition that holds power in check; In politics we have elections; Unfortunately in long term non-competetive appointments we have very little. Since we are talking about politics the best example I can think of is Washington. As great a leader he limited his role as President even at the urding of many americans to continue his Presidency. I think he knew power in human hands over long periods of time grows stale and self-serving.

As for me - I would separate EDUCTAION from ATHLETICS. Let Athletic minded people decide whats best for athletes and let Educators decide the necessary qualifications them to compete. Get rid of the people who are really educators at heart from making any decisions for the athletes when it comes to competition.

". . .would it really benefit EVERYONE the most or just those that can afford it?" Gee, isn't that the point to this entire debate about the role of a regulatory agency? There are those on here who think they/we should be allowed to do anything we are by-gawd big enough to do and no lily-livered panty waist snot nose should be able to tell us any different.

". . .separate EDUCTAION (not MY mis-spelling) from ATHLETICS." That would be adopting the European model; club sports for those who can afford it.

Sorry for the misspelling Mr. Mann. I do humbly disagree with you though. Team Knox has been belting out success for a while now and not too many of his kids are from wealthy families. You don't have to spend lots of money to make good athletes. However you must be able to compete. You can throw out all the insults you want but Kansas kids are not competing on a national level and the system does deter competiveness. Just one rule change that would allow kids to compete outside of school sponsored events would allow kids to compete in highly competitive venues within a few miles of most kansas towns. (1 day drive for sure.)

Insults? Really? Seriously? The "lily-livered panty waist snot nose" referred to would be people like me. . .and maybe if I had included these other descriptors: over-educated idiot who has no common sense and who is in favor of the "pussification of America" and who sucks at the teat of, and is a dreg on, our economy/society/American Way - - -think that covers it- - - it would have been more clear to who I was referring. So, I hope you see now Eddie that the "insults" were not directed at you.

But more importantly, aren't you kind of comparing apples to oranges? Kids wrestling has no concerns about academic eligibility, missed class time, credits or graduation. If that is the model you aspire to in your desire to separate EDUCATION from ATHLETICS then you are, in fact, talking about the European Model of Club Teams. . . (they could be called Kids Wrestling Clubs. . .oh, wait. . .)

But first, define "competing at a national level." By most definitions and as has been posted on this board, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, Kansas on a PER-CAPITA BASIS (we have a very small population base from which to draw) IS competitive at the National Level. But it seems some will not be satisfied until EVERY GOLD MEDAL IN THE NCAA D1 TOURNAMENT & OLYMPICS ARE WON BY WRESTLERS FROM KANSAS. Those who do have the gumption to point out with pride the many accomplishments of Kansas wrestlers are accused of being apologists and not having high enough standards.

You know, when I first joined this board almost eight years ago, there were quite a few high school wrestlers who posted here. We hardly see that anymore. Wonder if it has anything to do with their reading how Kansas wrestling doesn't measure up, they don't care enough, don't work hard enough, aren't serious about their sport because they don't wrestle twelve months per year and travel to the ends fo the earth to do it. . .

Some of on this Board need to reevaluate and realize there is more going on than HS wrestling. And I am one of them. Going to take a break from this insanity until State Wrestling when once again the big discussion will be how many college scholarships are lost because we don't have the State Tournament in one place. . .or is it because our kid's don't/can't/won't wrestle in the rest of the west (or is it the beast with yeast?), or whatever. . . Hope the rest of the season goes good for you and yours. Peace/Out.

Im curious Mr. Mann-

Will Ks. ever really compete??????

That is the question.... If you think we are competitive than just say so. But if not then what needs to give???

Finally, Just curious what side you feel you fall on? Educator or Athlete?

Good Good Luck to your team at State.....

The #1 ranked KS team was at the Newton TOC, and they got 11th.

^ To that post you also have to realize Basehor was the same weekend alot of your top kansas teams were not at the newton tournament, such as Goddard, Andale, Saint James and so on

only way kansas will compete is to stop letting your kids be kids. just make them wrestle all year round and do nothing but wrestling. most of the best kids in the nation do nothing but wrestle and dont play baseball, football or any thing else. if thats what you want go for it. my son is good in all sports and enjoys all sports so thats what we will be doing.

I would strongly disagree on the separation of education and athletics. As to Mr. Bowden, he was a coach! A wrestling coach if I'm not mistaken.

The question wasn't addressed to me but YES I do feel we are more than competitive on a national level.

A wrestling coach and official.

the advantage that some of these states has is geographic. look at PA for example, the exposure to college coaches and college wrestlers can really be a benefit. KS is getting more college programs and i think we will see the benefit soon. but i really think that most of you are missing the point.

will ks really compete? compete how?

compete best vs. the best? i think we compete well, but after that there is a huge gap. most ks teams have one or two elite wrestlers then the rest????

compete as a team? we don't compete well here at all, many teams struggle to fill rosters, when they do the spots are filled by less than great talent. depth is the key to building a lasting, successful program.

because we don't have many college programs, many athletes don't, won't, can't go to camps/clinics/ etc. with college coaches or wrestlers. the exposure is much more difficult to come by here is KS, than it is in other, more prominent states.

I've said it many times, until Kansas takes the BEST we have to offer, we'll never get a gauge of how we stack up. This is calling some people out, but if you are keeping your kid at home in the summer because you can't stand to see him lose a match, then you are not doing yourself, your kid, or the state any good. Come on, man up, and go wrestle the best. What is really tough is having only one kid at each weight, for both FS and Greco. Most states have two separate teams, one for FS, one for Greco. I've seen how beat up kids get wrestling one style, much less two. Year in and year out, we have multiple kids that wrestle 16 matches at the duals, with no break. Takes heart and guts for those kids to do that, but if they would get some help, it would take a little pressure off of them. Don't make me list names of the dads that protected their little boy from the competition, and came up with a lame excuse to not have their son on the team...........