While you are out there praying on the mat, please say a little prayer for our soldiers, sailors, marines and air force personnel who are fighting for their lives overseas. They are the ones who are ensuring that we can openly discuss our differences at home.

Regardless of your religious preference, if you live here in the United States, you should appreciate the sacrifices that these men and women give to protect our rights. Whatever your religion, these all volunteer military personnel are the ones that are walking in the valley of the shadow of death.

Rassler, my name is not firehawk. It is Larry Woltje, just as it says on the bottom of all my posts. Myself and others have fought for this great country so that you can have your opinion. Let me have mine.

Quagmire

It is fine to have a prayer meeting, have a private meeting in the corner of the gym for everyone interested in attending.I am not trying to put them down it's just that this is america so are we going to give equal time time to the muslims, hindus, scientologists,wickens etc... If we did that the same people advocating this would be up in arms saying we can't do that this is a christian country, but the constitution guarantees freedom of religion, that is all religions, this is just a slippery slope we are on and eventually maybe we can start all the regional tournaments an hour late to give all religions their chance for public prayer. Or maybe lets mandate prayer for all wrestlers led by a hindu priest or maybe just the holy one chief renegade.

And what percentage of these wrestlers would you estimate to be in the Hindu, Muslims, etc...categories? A very, very small percentage I would have to guess. But we tend to cater to the minority anymore so as to not offend anybody!

Rassler just to clear this up before I log off for the night,

All prayers that are held on behalf of Wrestlers 4 Christ are held before competition begins. Not one tournament in Wrestlers 4 Christ history has been held up because of the meeting in the center of the mat. If you are one of those people who want to come and listen to what the prayer leader wants to say, and wants to hold a group prayer in the name of God, then we would love for you to join us. And if you want to eat your donut and drink your coffee or just be satisfied in your seat before the big day begins then so be it. Either way its not a mandatory place of prayer. Its by choice. We aren't shutting down or discouraging any other religion to pray, they can as well. That'd be great. We may not have the exact same beliefs but if your one of those people who have never heard our prayer that we do say in those groups, then I'd really really suggest for you to listen to what we say. You may come to like it, and change your mind about some of the things your posting, and if you decide not to then honestly its gonna keep happening. I'm sorry but again this is by choice. Listen to the people, HIGH SCHOOLERS are doing this. Kind of inspiration for a lot of people.

And thank you for that post Mr. Girard. I am sure that topic can fit in very easily throughout the prayer. Thanks again and God Bless.

Our great constitution requires us to protect the rights not cater to the minority, How does praying in a corner versus in the middle of the mat infringe on your rights, that way people would not be attending purely from peer pressure but rather true belief

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. Matthew 5:14-16

Chief, I do not believe Contrarian's post was hateful. Yes, it was mocking of some in particular, but it did not offend me (and I consider myself a Christian, maybe not a good one) and it was very scarcastic and the last line was funny. And, Headup, if we had a radical dictator who would get shot would depend upon the beliefs of the dictator, it might not be rassler. Point is, this is a noble idea, and very worthwhile. My son will participate, because hs has no free will. I pay the bills and I say so. But, it would be nice if it was done as some on here have suggested. In a corner so those who have free will do not feel any peer presure to participate. And, I miss the Church on the Mat that Furches use to do at Sunday tourneys. It makes me feel less guilty. But, shouldn't I really be in Church. Interesting questions for us to answer as individuals.

Im just gonna sacrifice my virgin goat behind the school now, so nobody is offended.

Wow this got out of control. No one was saying becasue you pray in public you hate god. No one said you should look down on high school wrestlers who pray. All I wanted to point out is to everyone who is in the middle of the mats praying, try to consider how those high school wrestlers feel that choose not to join in. I know it is hard to look past yourself but put yourself in the shoes of one of those wrestlers not in the center. Imagine the possible taunting and ridicule they may receive for being different and to recieve this right before the biggest tournament of the year? I understand the point that there are those who faught for our rights and I also understand that the prayer may be legal, but soldiers faught for the rights of everyone not just the majority and just becasue something is believed to be legal doesn't make it right.

well said cb

They did this at Eureka and my sons were up in the stands and missed it. I dont recall them getting taunted or ridiculed by anyone. I dont believe any wrestler would get taunted or ridiculed anyway for not participating. Thats a ridiculus statement.

I agree with you 100 percent. When they play the Star Spangled Banner, some people don't remove their hats, some don't put their hand across their chest, and some just continue to do whatever it is they were doing before the start of the song.

If you jump their behinds for not doing those things, then you don't understand the freedoms that we are provided. As long as they don't forget that the freedoms that they are provided have cost someone else, not only their freedom, but their life.

For the second year in a row, we have been criticized for the efforts we make on connecting Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and wrestling. Yet, today Wrestlers For Christ continues to grow and is now stronger than ever due to supporters that have taken roles to further these efforts. Let me be the first to tell you, being criticized for something you truly believe in with all of your heart is amazing. If Wrestlers For Christ were easy to accomplish, there probably would not be a group. However, it is the fact that we live in a world of selfishness, doubt, and continuous sin, from EVERYONE that lives on this Earth, but one. That is the basis behind MY faith.

Many, many scriptures have been used in a way to show that Wrestlers For Christ is used in a negative way. However, I might add that these same tactics were used by the devil against Jesus Christ himself. However, Jesus responds that He is called by other scriptures to do the opposite.

Am I saying that you are the devil and that we are Jesus? Absolutely not! However, I am saying that we all have callings in our lives to glorify God. This just happens to be one of mine.

Matthew 6:5-6 talks about praying in the secret and that those that pray in public in front of other men are hypocrites.

However, later in Matthew gives another message. Matthew 28:19 says “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” He calls a select few to go out and put their faith in action and in word; a bold statement to the entire world.

I look back to the reasons we started Wrestlers For Christ. Brett and I had been leading our individual teams in prayer for years. When we got put together for the same tournament, through our fathers Harry and Doug, we decided to extend an invitation to not only each other, but the entire wrestling community. This is in no way to brag about Brett and I, but to lead a prayer, even in just your own team, is a hard thing to do. For the wrestlers that didn’t have a team leader to do this but still wanted to participate in an act like this, Wrestlers For Christ is their opportunity.

Why do we do it in the center of the mat? Back in the Day used an excellent verse from Matthew 5:14-16. I also look at Colossians 3:23 “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men.”

There is no disrespect for anyone of other religion or no religion, etc. However, I feel that the center of the mat is the easiest place for those that did not know we were doing the prayer to see us and another reason is, in my views, God should be at the center of everything I do; Wrestlers For Christ is absolutely no different. If you believe strongly in what you believe, I don’t think there will be any peer pressure to a prayer that will be on the mat. However, if you are unsure and feel peer pressure because everyone else is doing, then what is such a bad idea of seeing how a prayer might work?

As to the statements made about other religions having time to make their prayers in the center of the mats? Yes! Yes! Yes! If there are wrestlers who follow that faith who feel that they should pray like Wrestlers For Christ; by all means do it. There has never been anything against it and there will not be if it happens.

I hope those opposed to our prayers at Regionals realize that these prayers have been occurring at every tournament possible for the past two years. Kids, Middle school, Junior Varsity, Varsity, Duals. There has been little to no opposition to any of these tournaments. I simply made the request to anybody interested to contact me. Wrestlers For Christ will never force any athlete to do anything they don’t want; praying or leading a prayer. USAWKS Forums are the easiest way to reach out to high school wrestlers who could be leaders.

I apologize for the length of the reply but I hope to have answered any questions posed. If not, send me a PM and I will answer anything you ask.

Wrestlers For Christ has been a questioned group for almost a year now, and yet we have hundreds of kids gathering each weekend to give praise to God in Heaven. If you do not like this, I am sorry you feel this way. Wrestlers For Christ meets all legal obligations and the leaders feel as though all factors on how we give our God glory is within reason.

Thank You, Good Luck these next two weekends, and God Bless
Co-Founder of Wrestlers For Christ – Michael Vander Linden

CB. This is exactly what happened last year on this same subject. Mostly the same posters with the same comments---or they cut and pasted last year's comments. You, rassler and me are now officially considered to be non patriot-tratitorous, communist heathens for your questions and comments.

Chief,

In the past I have sometimes questioned your rankings (when my wrestlers were taken out lol) but after reading all of this I have a new found respect for you and your heart for Christ. My name on here speaks for itself so I will keep this short.

It seems that people are so worried about praying on school grounds when that is one of the main places we need to be praying in, for and over. Our country was founded on Biblical word and even before Washington implemented the infantry into the military, he implemented the Chaplain. SOME of our leaders wanted to take “religion” out of schools (by the way Jesus didn’t come to give religion but to restore relationships with God. Religion is man made) when most of the creeds that children recite in schools mentions God in it like “one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all”. Oh and the “under God” part wasn’t put in until Pres. Lincoln demanded it during his time in office.

We turn the other way so many times when our wrestlers make bad choices or are a part of things that are not so positive and now that they have a chance to be around something that could literally save their lives, some people are up in arms about it. Now I know the word of God well but I’m trying to have you non supporters look at it from a different perspective. And I really don’t care if you quote the Bible or not because even the devil knows the word of God. God searches our hearts so even when you gather to pray publically, if you are doing it with a whole heart, he will honor that.

You never know what injuries and crazy things praying over ALL the wrestlers, coaches, fans, parents, refs, and workers could stop. There is all kind of things that going on during and around wrestling tournaments. But if those involved are COVERED IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS then “no weapons formed against us shall prosper”. One final thought, Mathew 10:33 says “he that disowns me in front of men, I will disown in front of my father in Heaven”. What will he say about YOU?

Sorry, that wasn’t short at all, but I love talking about my Lord and Savior!!!

I am not personally opposed to prayer however, that being said, I have to wonder how "the separation of church and state" comes into play here?. I think as someone else stated earlier this is a slippery slope. The prayer takes place on public school grounds? I'm pretty sure it is unconstitutional for public school policy to allow student led prayer. Maybe because this is perceived as voluntary prayer presented and led by students without official permission, this is legal. I really don't know. Maybe just having it in a corner where anyone can attend who wants to, instead of in the middle where everyone has to hear it is a better idea. Just some thoughts.

Whether people are for the prayer or against the prayer at regionals there is something great happening here. Wrestlers for christ is doing a great thing. No matter whether you are for this or against this there is people talking about god and writing bible verses on the talk forums for hundreds of people to read, I for one think its great, but thats my opinion, these kids are not saying their prayers over the loud speaker, so they are not pushing the prayers on anyone. so no matter where they meet in the gym you can choose to be apart of it or you can choose not to be. If you don't want to hear these prayers don't go by where they are gathering. I really don't think it matters whether its on the east, west, north, or south side of the gym or if its in the middle, people will still be able to see the kids having prayer and choose to either be a part of it or not to be a part of it. Good luck to everyone this weekend and God Bless
Joey Clark

Oh for crying out loud. I coached four years at Immaculata and one at Maur Hill. In our team huddle before each tournament round and dual meet, we said a breif prayer. At every home meet (and every home sporting event) we had a prayer. I'm not Catholic, but I respected that and so did everyone else that was not. There is nothing wrong with this, other than the people who are so uncomfortable with prayer that they're making an issue out of it.

It is not in the middle of the mat so that everyone has to hear.
Its stated above by Michael Vanderlinden.