This prayer is not"state-sponsored" it is a group of boys who have believes. So here is my suggestion to you and everyone else who does not like it ignore. The same first amendment that protects you and allows you to speak your mind on this forum also protects those young men if they want to pray. Last time I checked Main street in every town was paid for with tax dollars would you be this outraged if a group of teenagers wanted to say a short prayer asking for the safety of their team mates and opponents during the most important two weeks of the wrestling season on Main street. The answer here is NO.
Good Luck this weekend wrestlers and coaches.

The key word here is organized. This activity is not organized by the school, kshaa, or any government entity.

i will appologize to you as well, as i did not intend to call you dumb or stupid. i was rather saying that you seem to have a hard time seeing anyone's elses point of view. my stance has not waivered during this whole discussion. this is America, and i am proud of that. The law does not prohibit what these youngsters plan to do. i mean to all who oppose this, don't you think that there is much worse they could be doing????

It's just not true! Students may engage with other students in religious activity during non-curricular periods as long as the activity is not coercive or disruptive.

Chief,
This will be my last post here, arguing religion is pointless with ultra right wing conservatives like you because you thumb your nose at scientific fact and try to mold it to fit your beliefs. For anyone interested there are several hundred studies done by the worlds top physicists and universities that refute chiefs claim about the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it is a very complex theory that can't be explained away by dropping a deck of cards from an airplane. There are hundreds if not thousands of transitional fossils and more are being found all of the time. Please look at all the facts before you base your life on a book of fables and fairy tales whose orgins started with a bunch of uneducated largely illiterate nomadic sheep herders who told stories around their campfires. Who also thought the world was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe, and that they could appease their god by offering up burnt animals to him, Who knows they may be right has anyone out there ever seen the edge of the earth I hope someone has constructed a barricade so people won't fall off. Have a nice day and good luck to all the kids wrestling this weekend.

It's not true??? Just as "Evolution Is Impossible"?. Seeing a different point of view (or facts) for some is like herding cats on the prairie. It's just not going to happen.

rassler,

The theory of evolution is in serious debate. The circular reasoning of the pseudoscience of the lunatic left has caught up to them. There is so much information out there regarding credentialed scientists that disagree with the inverted fantasy of evolution. Your flat earth soundbite shows the absurdity of your position. The bible clearly says the earth is round. It's also a dangerous gamble on your part to bet your eternity that Jesus was not who He said He was.

Come see me in Wichita!

But the problem here is not that we need to see a different view point in this whole discussion nobody but you guys is talking about persuading others. This whole topic is about wether they should be able to pray. Me personally i don't care either way. When they announce it over the intercom nobody HAS to go. They will say a prayer session will now begin in the middle of mat 1. (or something to this effect). And if you don't feel like being a part of this prayer session then warm up on mat 2 for pete sake. It's not that hard this is just like the mecca the muslims make every year. We all know about it. They talk about before hand but NOBODY MAKES YOU BE THERE. If you want to be a part of it show up. If not sit in the stands or warm up on the mats. ENOUGH SAID.

Some one posted this link on facebook today so I figured it was only fitting considering this on going debate. Im not that into country music but as a CHRISTIAN and a musician...I love it because its beyond true!! PLEASE WATCH!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv7Qhktiij0&feature=related

Entropy.....after five years of engineering school, I have yet to hear any explanation that really makes sense. I've heard lots of evolution arguments, but most of those claims could be refuted by watching some people i know try to open an envelope.

[quote=rassler]Chief,
This will be my last post here



Thank you!

figured i better a least get one quote it.

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee.

(pulp fiction 1994)

i know this does not help your debate but me being me had to throw it in there. heck i can't even tell you what part of the bible it is from. but i got one in anyway.

What a HOT TOPIC!!!!

Opening poost was 7:23 PM Sunday evening 13 Feb. Time elasped since opening 28 hours. 3,487 HITs and 212 posts/comments.

Issues or comments on:
prayer
religion
genocide war and death caused by religous conflict
law
constitution
military service--or not
creationism
evolution
thermodynamics
biogenesis
music
Charles Manson and "family"
movie dialogue

Just like that pink rabbit in the battery commercial--"just keeps on going"---or the old TIMEX Watch commercials--"Keeps on Ticking"

And the regionals don't start until tomorrow!!!!!

Charles Manson's followers were knowns as "the family" I was not saying that Manson's teaching would represent the views of a normal american family.

Unless of course they like to break into peoples houses and kill people because of an old Beatles song.

I want to highlight just a few reasons as to why evoloution is scientific fact.

•Genetic variation. There is tremendous genetic diversity within almost all species, including humans. No two individuals have the same DNA sequence, with the exception of identical twins or clones. This genetic variation contributes to phenotypic variation — that is, diversity in the outward appearance and behavior of individuals of the same species.

•Adaptation. Living organisms have morphological, biochemical, and behavioral features that make them well adapted for life in the environments in which they are usually found. For example, consider the hollow bones and feathers of birds that enable them to fly, or the cryptic coloration that allows many organisms to hide from their predators. These features may give the superficial appearance that organisms were designed by a creator (or engineer) to live in a particular environment. Evolutionary biology has demonstrated that adaptations arise through selection acting on genetic variation.

•Divergence. All living species differ from one another. In some cases, these differences are subtle, while in other cases the differences are dramatic. Carl Linnaeus (1707-1778) proposed a classification that is still used today with slight changes. In the modern scheme, similar species are grouped into genera, similar genera into families, and so on. This hierarchical pattern of relationship produces a tree-like pattern, which implies a process of splitting and divergence from a common ancestor.

•Fossil species . Fossils are the mineralized remnants or impressions of once-living organisms. Many fossils, such as trilobites and dinosaurs, belong to groups that no longer exist on the face of the Earth. Conversely, many modern species appear similar to other fossils, yet fossils of the modern species are absent from rocks of corresponding ages. The age of the Earth is estimated to be about 4.5 billion years, with the earliest bacterial fossils about 3.5 billion years old. Fossils from around 550 million years ago (the Cambrian period) show a diverse assemblage of multicellular animals.

Understood. Was in LA when it happened. Remember the event and the players well. Real wackos! Scary!

I think Charley was a HS wrestling champion!

But wait theres more!!!



Evidence for Evolution, and its Significance in our Lives
It is impossible to review all the evidence for evolution in a short article such as this. However, the following offers a sample of the kinds of evidence that have been discovered and confirmed repeatedly by scientists. These examples also illustrate the importance of this evidence for science and society more generally.

•Evidence from fossils. Based on myriad similarities and differences between living species, evolutionary biology makes predictions about the features of ancestral forms. For example, numerous features indicate that birds are derived from reptilian ancestors. By contrast, these data reject the possibility that birds were derived from other groups, such as flying insects. Scientists have discovered fossil birds with feathers and legs like modern birds, but which also have teeth, clawed digits on their forelimbs, and a tailbone like their reptilian ancestors. Fossils are especially important evidence for evolution because, with little effort, each of us can use our eyes and minds to observe and interpret the dinosaur and other ancient fossils in public museums.

•Evidence from genetics. The genomes of all organisms contain overwhelming evidence for evolution. All living species share the same basic mechanism of heredity using DNA (or RNA in some viruses) to encode genes that are passed from parent to offspring, and which are transcribed and translated into proteins during each organism’s life. Using DNA sequences, biologists quantify the genetic similarities and differences among species, in order to determine which species are more closely related to one another and which are more distantly related. In doing so, biologists use essentially the same evidence and logic used to determine paternity in lawsuits. The pattern of genetic relatedness between all species indicates a branching tree that implies divergence from a common ancestor. Within this tree of life, there are also occasional reticulations where two branches fuse, rather than separate. (For example, mitochondria are organelles found in the cells of plants and animals. Mitochondria have their own genes, which are more similar to genes in bacteria than to genes on the chromosomes in the cell nucleus. Thus, one of our distant ancestors arose from a symbiosis of two different cell types.) The genetic similarity between species, which exists by virtue of evolution from the same ancestral form, is an essential fact that underlies biomedical research. This similarity allows us to begin to understand the effects of our own genes by conducting research on genes from other species. For example, genes that control the process of DNA repair in bacteria, flies, and mice have been discovered to influence certain cancers in humans. These findings also suggest strategies for intervention that can be explored in other species before testing on humans.

•Evolution in action. Evolutionary change continues to this day, and it will proceed so long as life itself exists. In recent years, many bacterial pathogens have evolved resistance to antibiotics used to cure infections, thereby requiring the development of new and more costly treatments. In some frightening cases, bacteria have evolved resistance to every available antibiotic, so there is no longer any effective treatment. In the case of HIV, which causes AIDS, significant viral evolution occurs within the course of infection of a single patient, and this rapid evolution enables the virus to evade the immune system. Many agricultural pests have evolved resistance to chemicals that farmers have used for only a few decades. As we work to control diseases and pests, the responsible organisms have been evolving to escape our controls. Moreover, scientists can perform experiments to study evolution in real time, just as experiments are used to observe dynamic processes in physics, chemistry, and other branches of biology. To study evolution in action, scientists use organisms like bacteria and fruitflies that reproduce quickly, so they can see changes that require many generations.

well we should give all wrestelers background checks before compitition then..

just to be safe.

I think its also dangerous to fanatically follow a book that is 2000 years old.

Some of the earliest writings from the bible were written down 3500 years ago.

Or did god beam it to earth like in an old star trek show?

flubber,

Thanks for responding. These statements are just that. Let's talk about dating method assumptions. Let's talk about Homology. It is actually a problem for evolution, not a proof. Let's talk about how Ernst Haeckel's drawings on recapitulation are known frauds. I have had direct conversations with KU and KSU professors that agree with me about errors in textbooks. Statements of fact in those books are anything but that. I have seen multiple debates on this issue. There is a growing controversy!

We should move this part of the conversation to the "Other" thread. I would love to continue there.