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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: flubber] #182753 02/17/11 04:50 PM
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Chief Renegade Offline
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Originally Posted By: flubber
I think its also dangerous to fanatically follow a book that is 2000 years old.


Because of the downside alone, I would think that it would be more dangerous to disregard the life, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ based on a hunch that it's not true.


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: Chief Renegade] #182754 02/17/11 04:54 PM
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Chad Parks Offline
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I agree Chief.


All hard work brings profit, but mere talk leads to poverty. -Proverbs 14:23
Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: flubber] #182756 02/17/11 05:10 PM
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Chief Renegade Offline
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Originally Posted By: flubber
But wait theres more!!!



Evidence for Evolution, and its Significance in our Lives
It is impossible to review all the evidence for evolution in a short article such as this. However, the following offers a sample of the kinds of evidence that have been discovered and confirmed repeatedly by scientists. These examples also illustrate the importance of this evidence for science and society more generally.

•Evidence from fossils. Based on myriad similarities and differences between living species, evolutionary biology makes predictions about the features of ancestral forms. For example, numerous features indicate that birds are derived from reptilian ancestors. By contrast, these data reject the possibility that birds were derived from other groups, such as flying insects. Scientists have discovered fossil birds with feathers and legs like modern birds, but which also have teeth, clawed digits on their forelimbs, and a tailbone like their reptilian ancestors. Fossils are especially important evidence for evolution because, with little effort, each of us can use our eyes and minds to observe and interpret the dinosaur and other ancient fossils in public museums.

•Evidence from genetics. The genomes of all organisms contain overwhelming evidence for evolution. All living species share the same basic mechanism of heredity using DNA (or RNA in some viruses) to encode genes that are passed from parent to offspring, and which are transcribed and translated into proteins during each organism’s life. Using DNA sequences, biologists quantify the genetic similarities and differences among species, in order to determine which species are more closely related to one another and which are more distantly related. In doing so, biologists use essentially the same evidence and logic used to determine paternity in lawsuits. The pattern of genetic relatedness between all species indicates a branching tree that implies divergence from a common ancestor. Within this tree of life, there are also occasional reticulations where two branches fuse, rather than separate. (For example, mitochondria are organelles found in the cells of plants and animals. Mitochondria have their own genes, which are more similar to genes in bacteria than to genes on the chromosomes in the cell nucleus. Thus, one of our distant ancestors arose from a symbiosis of two different cell types.) The genetic similarity between species, which exists by virtue of evolution from the same ancestral form, is an essential fact that underlies biomedical research. This similarity allows us to begin to understand the effects of our own genes by conducting research on genes from other species. For example, genes that control the process of DNA repair in bacteria, flies, and mice have been discovered to influence certain cancers in humans. These findings also suggest strategies for intervention that can be explored in other species before testing on humans.

•Evolution in action. Evolutionary change continues to this day, and it will proceed so long as life itself exists. In recent years, many bacterial pathogens have evolved resistance to antibiotics used to cure infections, thereby requiring the development of new and more costly treatments. In some frightening cases, bacteria have evolved resistance to every available antibiotic, so there is no longer any effective treatment. In the case of HIV, which causes AIDS, significant viral evolution occurs within the course of infection of a single patient, and this rapid evolution enables the virus to evade the immune system. Many agricultural pests have evolved resistance to chemicals that farmers have used for only a few decades. As we work to control diseases and pests, the responsible organisms have been evolving to escape our controls. Moreover, scientists can perform experiments to study evolution in real time, just as experiments are used to observe dynamic processes in physics, chemistry, and other branches of biology. To study evolution in action, scientists use organisms like bacteria and fruitflies that reproduce quickly, so they can see changes that require many generations.


There are so many errors here, I will explain on the "Other" thread.

I will say that the suggestion that the development in bacteria of resistance to antibiotics as a result of genetic mutations or DNA transposition somehow “proves” organic evolution is flawed. Macroevolution requires change across phylogenetic boundaries. In the case of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, that has not occurred.


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: Chief Renegade] #182769 02/17/11 05:53 PM
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flubber Offline
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"In the case of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, that has not occurred."

you cant be serious, people all over the world are dying because the infections they have cannot be cured through the antibiotics we have now. The bacterium have EVOLVED a natural resistance to these drugs we have now.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: gymmom] #182770 02/17/11 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: gymmom
Redstorm, I mean no disrespect but...

"Organized prayer in the public school setting, whether in the classroom or at a school-sponsored event, is unconstitutional. The only type of prayer that is constitutionally permissible is private, voluntary student prayer that does not interfere with the school's educational mission."

"[ T] he Establishment Clause forbids state-sponsored prayers in public school settings no matter how nondenominational the prayers may be." Lee v. Weisman, 505 U. S. 577 (1992).

Look it up if you need to. I posted a good site previously to help educate the unimformed.


No disrespect here because actually your quote is quite uninformative. You apparently take everything to be literal. "Private" does not mean "not in public view." read the entire Lee case and you will see why prayer was prohibited in that instance. Clearly it was school sponsored. This is not, it really doesn't get any simpler than that. A public school student who wishes to pray in private prior to his meal may do so at the lunch table. He or she does not have to go out of sight, pray and then come back to the table. Much like these students who will share a private prayer in public sight. You have a right to leave the premises during the private prayer if you choose, or you may get caught up in the moment and choose to join the kids, your choice.

Thanks for playing.


Bill DeWitt
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: RedStorm] #182772 02/17/11 06:07 PM
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That is what is wrong with this country more than anything, is that our system is all messed up when in most everything majority rules but in the case of religion, God forbid we infringe upon the rights of the few who want to go astray and
then feel more special than the moral majority and be catered to.
Because we fear litigation, we instead allow people like Phelps to take a dump all over us while disallowing prayer in schools, pledge of allegiance and open discussion. These few are given more rights and freedom than Christians anymore which is sad.

The fact that these youth are gathering for a brief prayer is a good thing and is hurting no one, ..if one doesn't like it, then turn your head or close your eyes..better yet, go to a country that opens your eyes to just how good it is to be an American.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: On_the_Mat] #182792 02/17/11 07:47 PM
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blainelori Offline
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you couldn't have said it better! LOVE your post!! Wish everyone felt that way!

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: On_the_Mat] #182796 02/17/11 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: On_the_Mat
That is what is wrong with this country more than anything, is that our system is all messed up when in most everything majority rules but in the case of religion, God forbid we infringe upon the rights of the few who want to go astray and
then feel more special than the moral majority and be catered to.
Because we fear litigation, we instead allow people like Phelps to take a dump all over us while disallowing prayer in schools, pledge of allegiance and open discussion. These few are given more rights and freedom than Christians anymore which is sad.

The fact that these youth are gathering for a brief prayer is a good thing and is hurting no one, ..if one doesn't like it, then turn your head or close your eyes..better yet, go to a country that opens your eyes to just how good it is to be an American.


AMEN!!!


Shane Koranda
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: Shane Koranda] #182797 02/17/11 08:15 PM
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windjammer Offline
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Please don't say amen. It's a religious word. Some may be offended. You are violating everybody's rights. We were not able to turn away from our computers in time and now we have all been tragically coerced. I'm calling the ACLU.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: windjammer] #182800 02/17/11 08:22 PM
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I graduated last year and have wrestled for a long time. I have known Michael Vanderlinden and his father since i started in grade school. And have known Brett and his father my whole high school career. And i think the things they are doing is great!! Who would ever think that two high school kids would be able to be mature enough to start this on their own? This never should have turned into what it did. And it proves how immature some parents are to look down on something that HIGH SCHOOL kids are doing. Like most people said on here leave it alone and let them do what they feel is going to protect the other kids. Congratulations Michael and Brett for starting this and i hope it continues for years!! Good Luck to all the kids wrestling this weekend and give it all you got!!!

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: HSwrestler28] #182802 02/17/11 08:51 PM
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willie424 Offline
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As a former wrestler from last year i agree so much with the above posts sometimes its just sad how parents can shoot down a great thing started by High School students its pretty sad, definitely shows how bad our society is were adults will criticize kids over a forum but yet nothing will be said in person.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: windjammer] #182805 02/17/11 09:00 PM
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Shane Koranda Offline
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Originally Posted By: windjammer
Please don't say amen. It's a religious word. Some may be offended. You are violating everybody's rights. We were not able to turn away from our computers in time and now we have all been tragically coerced. I'm calling the ACLU.


Actually, Amen is used by more religions than just Christians, so we should be OK cool whistle wink grin smirk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen


Shane Koranda
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Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: Shane Koranda] #182806 02/17/11 09:04 PM
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windjammer Offline
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All right. But don't you dare say holy cow. I know that's religious.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: flubber] #182814 02/17/11 10:07 PM
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Warriordad Offline
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I can't believe what a circus this has turned in to. It started as a young man asking for help wit hsomething he feels strongly about. And apparently there are others that feel the same way. Please leave the negetive comments to yourself.

Re: Wrestlers For Christ Regionals [Re: Chief Renegade] #182933 02/18/11 02:41 PM
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I haven't been on these forums for over a year now, in fact, only the 2nd time I have visited, not because has been assumed that I am boycotting or anything like that. The truth is, it is because my son has hurt his mother and I so much and I didn't want to deal with the drama. For those that pray, pray for him, he needs it and is not living, or doing the things we support at this point in time.

A few points and will try to be brief, voice my opinion, and then move on, because we still hurt. We still love wrestling, but for those that know our situation, you know why, we would love to keep in touch with folks, and you can contact us at mike@thevirtualpew.com or mike@furches.org, you can also pick up the phone, our number is 316-807-8034, or if outside of the area, toll free - 1-800-344-5013.

I have also been quite busy, my book is published and doing quite well, providing many speaking ops and more, www.thekeystonekid.com and also at Amazon and all major retailers, and I am currently working on 2 movies, and one instructional video for the homeless, between all of that and working with a church in Wichita seeking to locate downtown, with and for in large, the homeless, I don't have much time to be here.

Now to comment on a couple of things. Eric contacted me at facebook to tell me about this thread, I read through some of it.

My thoughts on the subject, then off to other places.

1st a persons right to pray is their right. It needs to be done, if done in a respectful way. I am not one much in favor of 'public prayer' to be honest. My God instructs to go into your closet to pray, that doesn't mean never show respect or thanks, but it has to be for individual purposes, not the purpose of show.

Service on the mat - some have brought that subject up, I miss it as well, have offered in the past to keep doing it, would be glad to do so, but haven't been asked since I did it last time. That service was primarily for those who wanted to worship in some place, in some way, on the Sunday of the tournament. I saw that as a good thing, not because we were trying to proselytize, but for those who wanted to remember their faith, and in some way, worship their God on that given day. Again, it should never be about show though.

Last point, someone said in these threads something about how I believe catholics have it all wrong. That is simply not true. I have many catholic friends that I personally consider born again, saved, will be in heaven and has a loving, real relationship with Jesus. I have to disagree some with my friend Eric or Chief here. I don't consider myself Protestant, I am Anabaptist. Important point theologically as most theologians will consider there actually three branches of Christian encompassing theologies, Catholic, Protestant, and Anabaptist. In a state like Kansas, that has many Anabaptist, (more than most any other state with possible exception of Ohio and/or Pennsylvania, an important distinction. I will agree with Chief, among all three groups, there are many differences, even Chief and I have very differing points of view on theology. We have had those debates and discussions, to assume though or to state that I said, 'the catholics had it all wrong and that they were not truely saved' is simply not true. I have never said that, it is either a blatant lie, or as I choose to believe, just a misunderstanding of something I said, frankly though, I don't recall, (and I do have a pretty good memory) ever discussing the concept of salvation among Catholics with anyone, ever in regards to wrestling. I needed to make that clarification, it was important enough to get me to respond to something for the first time in a very long time on these forums.

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