After 5 years in Fargo as a national team coach and reflecting each and every year what can be done to improve our results and make us a top 5 team in the nation I want to know what can be done to make this happen. One can make excuses of numbers in the state,etc. However, it is going to have to be an effort from North to South, East to West to make this happen. By no means am I the all knowing but from I see, the following needs to happen:

#1)Training must begin in March and continue until the National Tournament in July. I am not saying 5 days a week for 5 months. But Mat time must be a priority a couple times a week. Not just any mat time, but working on USA Wrestlings designed technique to become successful.

#2)Treat Fargo like it is: A National Tournament. Too many kids attending do not take it as serious as it is. It's the toughest tournament in the nation. It's not band camp, it's a national tournament. We do not go there to hang out with friends, sell gear, eat in the cafeteria, oh and then wrestle a little bit. We go there to compete against the best in the country and athletes need to realize this and focus on this to be successful.

#3)Weight classes: Plan on going to the lowest weight your body will allow for both styles. Many of the top kids are coming down another weight class from high school. That is why you never stop training, dieting etc. It's the biggest tournament alive and you have to treat it like it. Also, plan on remaining at that weight for both styles. Too many kids want to bump up after greco b/c they don't want to put out the effort of pulling weight again. This is wrong and only in very few cases can you be successful and become an All-American at this. You are in Fargo to bring home trophies and get better... Choose a weight, train for that weight, get it down early, and stick to it for 7 days of wrestling.

#4) We also must remember what we are: We are team Ks. We must get rid of the mindset of "I am not working out with other teams" or as coaches "I train these kids only" etc. We must be willing to work together and make it possible for us to train together more often. Steel does sharpen steel. However, we must also make an effort to get those who are not quite there to the point of being an All-American.

#5) As coaches, we must all be open to new technique, training habits, etc. Our way is not the only way. If it was, we would be the best in the Nation. We are not. We must all be willing to take time to learn, study, and be students of this sport. I personally have so much to learn and I owe it to athletes I train to find as many ways possible to make them better. We don't do this for money we all know. We do this b/c we were raised doing this, we love it, we probably don't know any other way and we want to give it back because we appreciate the experiences wrestling has given us. But until we make ourselves better and change the mindset of today's athlete, we will be on a treadmill going nowhere!

Good luck all of Kansas this fall and I am looking forward to seeing you all in the Winter, spring and summer for "Wrestling Season"

Thanks Coach Church. I enjoyed that. Good, well-thought out and insightful points.

You used the word 'mindset' in your post. Have you ever read the book by that title? It is subtitled, 'How We Can Learn to Fulfill Our Potential'.

Our principal had us read and discuss it as a faculty. I didn't like it at all, at first. I tend to be too skeptical (one of my unhealthy 'mindsets').

However, 6 months later, I see the concepts in the book coming up all the time. Some of the 'research' and antidotes are a bit fluffy (again, my mindset) but overall, I now see the value in several of the main concepts of the book. I try to use those concepts on myself, with my students and with my family. They can be used on/with ANYBODY (the kid serving your bag of fat at Mickey D's!).

Have you ever read it? Its about 250 pages long. Paperbook. Lots of 'white space' and LARGE subtitles so it is a 'quick read'.

The author is a Carol S. Dweck, Ph.D. - since reading it, I have seen her work quoted in other books.

You might enjoy it (along with all you others out there!).

Take care,

Dean

The biggest point here is "Begin Training in March" Kansas drags folkstyle out waaaaaayyyyyy toooooo long. I know that I am beating a dead horse here, but ending the Jr season the week of regionals and starting FS/GR shortly after High School State will give kansas a huge boost. The biggest problem with this is the buy in from USAWKS kids organization. too worried about rocking the boat to take a chance on this. I know I live in OK now but KS wrestling is important to me. If KS changes the season schedule then the rest of Coach Church's recommendations fall into place.

Craig Adams

(with thoughts to this thread as well as the "hand-wringing" thread)

Kudo's to Coach Church on an excellent post!

The facts are, that we only had 3 Freestyle All-Americans! One each in Cadet and Juniors and of course, our National Champion; Krista Revelle!

7 out of 14 of our total All-Americans were in Cadet Greco, arguably the division that is not as complete as other divisions. That is not to take anything away from these 7 warriors!!

There are many excuses and a few legitimate reasons, why we failed to score where anticipated. The fact remains, we didn't!
(the team scores are a testament to this)

I agree with Coach Church wholeheartedly! Our successes and our failures have a lot to do with our mindset! We have a few that are just happy to be (in Fargo) and others that are only after the gear. We have to have the attitude of preparing the best we can to wrestle our best!

We need greater buy in by our HS coaches. That means, buy your USAW card, get your Bronze card, attend a Silver College ... do everything you can to make yourself a better coach! Several top rated coaches can attest, you will improve your folkstyle game by learning FS/GR.

In a quick cursory examination of the top HS programs in the Nation, most have involvement of both their coaches and athletes, in Summer programs! I know that KSHSAA hampers us but other State find ways to get it done.

There are some thoughts that next year USAWKS will require wrestlers to attend the regional training centers. While Fargo is a great place to get schooled it is not a great place to learn!

I will say this, overall, we have a great group of well-behaved, hard-working individuals! The parents of these youngsters should be proud of what the future has in store!

... more later.

Cadet Greco

Team Name - Wrestler Count Team Abbreviation Points
1. Pennsylvania, PA - 39 PA 79.00
2. California, CA - 43 CA 55.00
3. Illinois, IL - 57 IL 47.00
4. Oregon, OR - 31 OR 41.00
5. New Jersey, NJ - 18 NJ 38.00
6. Michigan, MI - 17 MI 32.00
7. Florida, FL - 19 FL 30.00
8. Minnesota, MN - 37 MN 29.00
9. Wisconsin, WI - 34 WI 27.00
10. Kansas, KS - 24 KS 25.00

Junior Greco

Team Name - Wrestler Count Team Abbreviation Points
1. Illinois, IL - 53 IL 76.00
2. Florida, FL - 20 FL 63.00
3. Minnesota, MN - 30 MN 35.00
4. Wisconsin, WI - 32 WI 35.00
5. Michigan, MI - 15 MI 34.00
6. Iowa, IA - 32 IA 31.00
7. California, CA - 53 CA 26.00
8. Utah, UT - 32 UT 23.00
9. Pennsylvania, PA - 36 PA 20.00
10. Washington, WA - 34 WA 20.00
11. Colorado, CO - 29 CO 17.00
12. Missouri, MO - 24 MO 15.00
13. Louisiana, LA - 11 LA 14.00
14. Idaho, ID - 18 ID 12.00
15. New Jersey, NJ - 11 NJ 12.00
16. Oklahoma, OK - 14 OK 12.00
17. Virginia, VA - 21 VA 12.00
18. Arizona, AZ - 27 AZ 11.00
19. Oregon, OR - 24 OR 11.00
20. North Dakota, ND - 13 ND 10.00
21. Kansas, KS - 21 KS 8.00

Cadet Women

Team Name - Wrestler Count Team Abbreviation Points
1. Hawaii, HI - 10 HI 41.00
2. California, CA - 11 CA 36.00
3. Texas, TX - 13 TX 33.00
4. Pennsylvania, PA - 7 PA 30.00
5. New York - 8 NY 26.00
6. Michigan, MI - 5 MI 24.00
7. Wyoming - 2 WY 15.00
8. Wisconsin - 2 WI 13.00
9. Arizona - 2 AZ 12.00
10. Iowa, IA - 3 IA 10.00
11. Colorado - 1 CO 8.00
12. Indiana, IN - 2 N 8.00
13. Georgia - 1 GA 6.00
14. Minnesota, MN - 1 MN 6.00
15. Kansas - 1 KS 5.00

Junior Women

1. California, CA - 36 CA 96.00
2. Texas, TX - 30 TX 42.00
3. Hawaii, HI - 19 HI 37.00
4. Washington, WA - 18 WA 32.00
5. Michigan, MI - 10 MI 27.00
6. Iowa, IA - 7 IA 25.00
7. New York, NY - 13 NY 24.00
8. Pennsylvania, PA - 12 PA 24.00
9. Indiana, IN - 4 IN 22.00
10. Illinois, IL - 3 IL 14.00
11. Missouri, MO - 3 MO 13.00
12. Kansas, KS - 3 KS 8.00

Cadet Freestyle

Team Name - Wrestler Count Team Abbreviation Points
1. Illinois, IL - 63 IL 70.00
2. Pennsylvania, PA - 42 PA 60.00
3. Minnesota, MN - 56 MN 42.00
4. Oklahoma, OK - 24 OK 41.00
5. Missouri, MO - 36 MO 40.00
6. New Jersey, NJ - 32 NJ 34.00
7. Iowa, IA - 33 IA 32.00
8. California, CA - 55 CA 31.00
9. Ohio, OH - 54 OH 28.00
10. Oregon, OR - 34 OR 24.00
11. Michigan, MI - 18 MI 23.00
12. Indiana, IN - 26 IN 22.00
13. Maryland, MD - 25 MD 19.00
14. Nebraska, NE - 5 NE 16.00
15. Colorado, CO - 26 CO 14.00
16. New York, NY - 49 NY 14.00
17. Wisconsin, WI - 34 WI 13.00
18. Washington, WA - 32 WA 11.00
19. South Dakota, SD - 6 SD 10.00
20. Texas, TX - 22 TX 10.00
21. Idaho, ID - 27 ID 8.00
22. North Carolina, NC - 6 NC 8.00
23. Nevada, NV - 6 NV 7.00
24. Virginia, VA - 13 VA 7.00
25. Utah, UT - 20 UT 6.00
26. North Dakota, ND - 14 ND 5.00
27. Kentucky, KY - 2 KY 4.00
28. Tennessee, TN - 6 TN 4.00
29. Delaware, DE - 5 DE 2.00
30. Florida, FL - 20 FL 2.00
31. New Mexico, NM - 1 NM 2.00
32. Georgia, GA - 9 GA 1.00
33. Kansas, KS - 25 KS 1.00

Junior Freestyle

Team Name - Wrestler Count Team Abbreviation Points
1. Illinois, IL - 51 IL 93.00
2. Iowa, IA - 50 IA 55.00
3. Wisconsin, WI - 37 WI 32.00
4. Ohio, OH - 53 OH 30.00
5. California, CA - 54 CA 29.00
6. Michigan, MI - 20 MI 27.00
7. Minnesota, MN - 54 MN 27.00
8. Florida, FL - 22 FL 26.00
9. Virginia, VA - 28 VA 24.00
10. New York, NY - 40 NY 22.00
11. Indiana, IN - 33 IN 19.00
12. Colorado, CO - 29 CO 18.00
13. Oklahoma, OK - 27 OK 15.00
14. Washington, WA - 35 WA 15.00
15. New Jersey, NJ - 25 NJ 12.00
16. Arizona, AZ - 31 AZ 9.00
17. Maryland, MD - 24 MD 9.00
18. South Carolina, SC - 5 SC 9.00
19. Nebraska, NE - 6 NE 8.00
20. Oregon, OR - 33 OR 8.00
21. Hawaii, HI - 14 HI 7.00
22. Pennsylvania, PA - 48 PA 7.00
23. Massachusetts, MA - 6 MA 6.00
24. North Dakota, ND - 15 ND 5.00
25. Texas, TX - 18 TX 5.00
26. Wyoming, WY - 24 WY 5.00
27. Idaho, ID - 19 ID 4.00
28. Kansas, KS - 23 KS 4.00

I'm not fully aware of the situation, I watch results and keep my ears open. I heard that the kids that compete now are required to attend several pre-competition training events. Is that true? Does that involve significant travel? If this is true, is this driving some competitors away? Many kids are working in the summer and parents are on budgets, mandatory training sessions seem like an unnecessary obstacle to me. I can see the benefit in it too but it seems like it would be an obstacle for some.

Also, It seemed like several top tier kids were missing from the line-up this year. That alone is going to bring down overall results.

Ike,

No kid was or has ever been denied the opportunity to compete in the National Tournament. The training sessions were encouraged, and at one point were going to be a requirement, but in the end, the kids figured out that they were still going to be allowed to compete and our numbers this year fell dramatically for training center attendance.

So, no, the required training centers do not exist. Hope all is well with you bro!

Another thought..

Are freestyle and Greco very visible to the overall Kansas wrestling community? There doesn't seem to be a lot of priority placed on the styles in the Kids and HS realms either. If there were more "advertisement" on the kids scene and HS State Tourney, there may be an increase in interest. It may be as simple as having a booth with information and pictures of the All-American's of years past.

It seems like Kansas does get a lot of wrestlers to the college level. However, not a lot of these college wrestlers think it is important to wrestle at Fargo. I do not understand this mentality. If I had the opportunity or was planning on wrestling in college one day, Fargo, would be the can't miss tournament to train and compete in every year. You will compete against the best competition in the U.S., get to train with some of the better coaches Kansas has to offer, and get to practice and learn from many other top wrestlers in Kansas.

I would like to see our future college wrestlers step up to the plate and make it a priority to compete at Fargo. This will only bring more success at the college level from Kansas wrestlers.

Hope your well too Church!

More thoughts....Just brainstormin' with the rest of you.

I was never all that interested in Fargo as a wrestler. I didn't know many people going up, it was a skill set I was unfamiliar with, and it cost money my family didn't have. I wrestled the local tourney's but never made it up to Fargo. So, On one hand I think creating obstacles to getting there may make it more difficult to get the numbers. On the other hand, you will probably get a more competitive and prepared core going up there.

I think the first challenge is creating that excitement about the style and the event. With the Olympics coming up next year it's the perfect time to increase the visibility and the excitement in the state.

Lazyman...I think your absolutely right but conveying that message seems to be the break down at this point in the game.

I agree with Randy.......coaches need to do their part. There are many kids out there that don't have a clue when or where they can practice these styles. The opportunities are available.

Does summer wrestling get expensive? Yes, but where there's a will, there's a way. Many of the parents of the athletes I coach started planning for Fargo months in advance. They held multiple fundraisers. The kids went out and found sponsors. It costs $500 to make the trip to Fargo, which may be the cheapest rate in the US. North Dakota charges close to $800 and the tournament is held in their own state!!

There's only one way to improve our results on the national level........train hard and wrestle often. Other states are getting it done, so can we.

Brandon Jobe

$500 is a steal and it becomes cheaper with competing in Southern Plains, etc. But to send your kid away to camp, for 10 days with 3 meals a day, Training sessions, Rooms, 2 National Tournaments, and probably $200 + in gear.... It's pretty darn cheap!!! I know times are tough, but as BJobe said, there are plenty of people willing to help and if you have a will, it will happen!

I have a couple of suggestions

• fundraising there is already a need for some more FS/GR tournaments maybe procedes go to help fund Fargo ( Fargo Wrestlers officiate?)
  
• Its my guess that maybe 20% Ks Clubs offer FS/GR maybe we need to encourage it more at the club level wrestlers need to expeirence the dual team enviornment. My son pushed himself really hard during freestyle and greco season cause he's Schoolboy next year and plans to be the best and go. All this stems from being on elementry dual team and knowing what a blast it is.
• D1 kids follow that summer wrestling money scholarship I think thats what its for.

Now I encourage my son to do FS/GR. If I thought burnout was an issue I'd ask him to skip Folkstyle state series to rest up for FS\GR season. Heres why wrestling in college would be cool to see. NCAA NAIA WHATEVER? Now traveling the world and competeing on a Global level. And maybe god willing have the Honor to wrestle for his country on world team or dare dream the olympic stage thats my dream for my son. Non of that other crap matters. Plan B is he wrestles thru highschool always have a plan B very important

Fargo wrestlers need to worry about wrestling and not officiating.

When I was a young lad long ago... I enjoyed wrestling freestyle and greco with kids from other high schools. I don't know that we need more clubs but would like to see the clubs we do have take it to the next level. If we could get about 3-4 more East Kansas type clubs going in Kansas. - Look Out!

I will admit to being a BUM and not doing anything about it personally. Something I hope to change in the future.

My son wrestled Greco and Freestyle for the first time this year and had a blast. He has always played baseball in the past and made the decision to give that up this year. It seems to have been a great choice for him and thinking back I wish he would have made that change sooner as he will be going into his junior year. We really did know much about freestyle and greco in the past and i'm sure that was partly our fault. We had always felt like the summer was a slow time with not much going on and baseball had more to offer. Clubs need to make sure that the younger kids realize that summer is not a off season but a exciting time to learn more about the sport they love. And that although its different than folkstyle it will still make them a better wrestler overall. I wish we would have found that out a few years earlier then we did but he had a great time. We didn't have much luck this year in Fargo but my son is already talking about going next year. I know the coaches give up alot of time during the summer and I thank them but to improve more organized practices are a must if we want to improve as a team.

Probably about time for me to add my two cents worth. I will respond to as many of the previous posts on this subject as possible in this one post as I have seen some of the suggestions with which I agree and some that I don't.
First, I can agree with all of Coach Church's recommendations in his first post. However, I have to take exception to his suggestion that Fargo is cheap. If that was the only cost these wrestlers were incurring during the summer season that would be true. But let's remember, they have people wanting them to go to Dual Nationals and Southern Plains not to mention a national tournament or two along with maybe folkstyle team or individual camps. You add even a portion of the rest into the cost of Fargo and we're talking real money here. I think our inability to field a cadet dual team speaks directly to that. I am of the belief that we can't ask our folkstyle participants to subsidize the FS/GR any more than they already are so I don't know where the money is going to come from. Some have suggested FS/GR tournaments as fundraisers but with so few competitors it's not a money-maker anyway.
As to the folkstyle season being too long. Has the Kansas folkstyle season changed in the past 20 years? Do we have more or less FS/GR competitors percentage-wise than we have had in the past? I go to several FS/GR tournaments a year as time allows and I see basically the same numbers, and people for that matter, as I did years ago. What has happened IMO, is that we have seen an encroachment of national folkstyle tournaments on both ends of the summer FS/GR season. I don't know if that has had an impact but I think that trend will continue to get even worse.
The fact is, folkstyle is our national style of choice for the over-whelming majority of wrestling fans. I don't see that changing any time soon, nor do I think that it should. For my money, as long as kids are spending time on the mat during the spring and summer I don't care what style they are participating in.

SF02 has a couple of good points!

First, April - August use to be reserved for FS/GR, so those competing were doing so in the Olympic styles. Now, one can wrestle in a number of "national" events competing in Folkstyle, throughout the Summer!

I think Kansas needs to get on the band wagon that Idaho and Georgia have. That being, holding 3-style tournaments through the Spring and Summer! Idaho especially, is making the incentives to wrestle Greco and Freestyle, very attractive to the Folkstylers!

I agree also that Folkstyle is America's (and Kansas) choice! We seldom get wrestlers from 4A and below. Primarily due to those athletes are competing in Baseball and Track in the Spring. The "specialists" seem to come from the Metro areas.

The $500.00 Fargo trip in very cheap as far as Fargo trips go! Kansas is the cheapest in the Nation, to the best of my knowledge. I have said before, the biggest bang for the buck in the Summer is competing in the Duals!

We cannot give enough credit to USAWKS Folkstyle kids. Whether it be the Fargo trip, the Schoolboy/girl trip, the Folkstyle Nationals, the Senior Nationals, etc.; it is that branch of the organization that funds a big share of expense. But as SF02 said,"as long as kids are spending time on the mat during the spring and summer I don't care what style they are participating in."

I do remeber a few years ago, we had elimination matches at the Fargo camp. Now, if you want to go, you probably get to go. But, again in my opinion, we should not be taking a wrestler who admits ... "I do not know how to stop a gut wrench."

The experience of going 0-4 can be a mixed bag! Our own Danny Grater went 0-4 his first trip and the following year, was a National Champ! But more often than not, those that go 0-4, will take their gear and not make the trip again! The Fargo trip is an eye-opener for some! As I said earlier, “while Fargo is a great place to get schooled it is not a great place to learn!

This year we had a bunch of wrestlers fall just short of being All-American. They have a challenge and how they accept that "failure" will be a true test of their metal!!

Probably without fail ... if you are winning matches at Fargo ... you are placing in your respective HS State in February!

... that's enough for now! What do you think?

In comparison to Fargo for Kansas being $500 while NY, Florida, etc pay $1,500- $2,500. Our kids can go to the entire series for cheaper than many states that offer just Fargo. I was by no means saying that $500 is menial. I am a school teacher and coach... But in comparison!!! $500 is cheap! Thats all I was saying!

I love folkstyle wrestling as actually, I prefer it as well. As far as it being our National Style... This is true. But it's kind of sad that no other country shares Folkstyle with us and therefore we are getting beaten handily when it comes to international or world level competition. I personally would like to see the USA win as a team in both Greco and Freestlye since Folkstyle is not offered as an olympic sport! So as a whole, we have a lot of work to do!

Getting out of the dorms at Fargo would help, imho.

We are a USA Wrestling organization and we need to support USA Folkstyle Nationals where our Cadets and Junior can earn seperation critieria. We need to back off of the NHSCA event and let those who want to go fund it for themselves unless there is not a conflict in dates.

I have a whole list of improvement ideas but I will have to spend some time editing them so I don't break anyone's toes. I have been there five years in a row and there have been more than a fair share of frustrating momements. Junior Nationals is about the little things and the big things. You have to pay attention to the detail. My first suggestion would be to figure out what they are doing in Illinois! They dominated this year in duals and at Fargo.