So kids that don't wrestle middle school won't understand what it means to be part of a team? I find this totally ludicrous. My son totally gets the team concept and probably has a better understanding and appreciation than most kids his age. He has attended our team camp and summer workouts. My point is that you don't have to do middle school just for sole purpose of the team thing. If the individual takes care of business on the mat then the team is taken care of. I also think that it should be up to your son or daughter to decide whether or not they wrestle in middle school. My son wrestled his 7th grade year and mid-way thru the season he told me he didn't want to wrestle his 8th grade year. Someone on here said that "the payoff for the program to have your best kids wrestle MS is huge", what is the payoff? I wish everyone luck that is deciding what to do next year. Remember let your son or daughter decide! They are the ones wrestling not you..

So what do the kids that choose to wrestle middle school learn about team when they see others that feel they are above them doing otherwise? What are they to think when the kid who might help them improve is not in the room with THEIR team on a daily basis? How is the lesser kid supposed to get better? Are they now required to quit wrestling for their team, school and community and travel in order to improve themselves?
As I have said in the past, no matter how much people like Beeson and I and others preach it, some people will never understand the true meaning of TEAM!

They will aspire to improve their skills to reach that level!



They are to think about the goal of improving to that level!



Certainly not required, but they will then know that there is tougher competition out there!



Their kids club is a team. The dual events are teams. Their high school they will attend is a team. Who doesn't understand teams?

Yet you can only teach as fast as your slowest student... To me a club is like a team and for the most part MS wrestling is largely unnoticed by the communities they are in. My proposal to open up MS wrestling from the rediculous regulatory rules would accomplish both goals. Can you support that Sports? Furthermore, if we are going to REALLY understand the TRUE meaning of team for wrestling we need to have a DUAL state. Our current system really only, truly, recognizes the best INDIVIDUALS not the best "teams".

I feel that middle school wrestling is crucial to expose the school and community to wrestling. Kids participate in wrestling that may not otherwise wrestle kids due to cost, exposure... Many of these kids mature and grow into important contributors for their high school team. HOWEVER, kids club is absolutely the most important factor for kids learning and excelling in wrestling. Middle school is a taste of wrestling and is important. I encourage our experienced middle school kids to join our "club" at Prairie Trail in Olathe. No, they don't learn advanced technique and we stick to the basics but they are leaders in the room and can work with others to improve and learn. It is important for their future teammates to see them as leaders and the experienced ones learn by leading and teaching. Now I will say that our club is not sponsored by the KSHSAA and those kids can then workout and compete wherever they like on top of participating at our school. Win win for the Olathe schools that have started wrestling clubs in their feeder middle schools.

I think Cokeley had this one right! Let the middle school kids wrestle weekend club tournaments where there is no conflict. I have to disagree with a lot of the team comments. One of the reasons I wrestled was because it was an individual sport, win or lose it is on the individual. I know the come backs some of you will have about being on a good team can make the individual better so save it! At the end of each match one guy gets his hand raised and the victory is his alone! Beyond helping your team wrestling is about depending on yourself!

Someone who chooses not to support middle school sports, asking for a change in the rules, is like a non-voter who wants to bitch about who gets elected to public office.


No I can't. As I have stated on the same issue where it concerns high schoolers participating in non-KSHSAA sponsored events in-season. I oppose this for the same reasons. Those who currently choose not to support their middle schools would simply find another reason to take their kid elsewhere.
It is easy to be a team member when it benefits ME and MINE. It is more difficult being a team member when it requires sacrifice of same.

Cokeley started and runs the Middle School State Tournament. Your post is comical Sport.

I see nothing wrong with middle school kids wrestling at kids tournaments on the weekends or practicing with the club team. For kids with experience middle school wrestling is a joke. The competition is mainly at the novice level.

Sports,

I support ALL sports and teams. I just want to improve things. How can you achieve excellence if you don't keep pushing yourself? I propose a "win-win" solution and you don't even debate the pros I have offered up you simply say I am non supporter? Where does that come from?? I am not in favor or regulations that restrict those from being allowed to pursue excellence. If allowed to do both club and MS you will have greater success at the MS level, without doubt. Why wouldn't we want that? KSHSAA MS wrestling has NO state qualifier series, no real regulation(s) other than being restricted from practicing outside of the school practice and participating in non school sponsered events. At this point MS wrestling is a glorified intramural program but it could become something much greater. However, without change there can be no improvement.

I would love to see what you are asking for to happen....but....If not I am not taking my ball and going home....I will play by the rules and still be succesful.

Both of my boys wrestled middle school, they were lucky to have quality coaches and their season runs from oct thru early dec so the only tourny they miss is the kickoff, tucker had 21 matches during middle school and improved alot with the added bonus of being with his friends everyday after school.

Will i dont know if you can say that sammy wrestling middle school is why he didnt make it to state this year, 3 of the 4 that went to state from D1 at his weight placed and the other was 1 match away if i remember correctly.

I think middle school is a positive for us, but i dont know how i would feel about it if their season was late in the year.

"At the end of each match one guy gets his hand raised and the victory is his alone!"

I could not disagree more. I think wrestling is the ultimate team sport. You can not practice without a partner. No matter how talented you are the tougher the room the better you are going to be. Which is most of the argument for those of you who think tough experienced kids should wrestle club rather than MS. How often do you see a program with only 2 or 3 good kids and they are always around the same weight.


"For kids with experience middle school wrestling is a joke. The competition is mainly at the novice level"
That is primarily because the best kids available are not wrestling MS. How tough is that MS state tournaemnt? pretty decent right, get the best of the top of 12s and bottom of 14s nice mix...how about a league or 6 weeks of wrestling those kids.

I agree with Will 1000% on not restricting MS kids. Classic KSHSAA to have the only regulation of any kind on something be restrictive only. Yes it would be nice if KSHSAA would change several of the assanine things that they hamstring us with, but......probalby not going to happen...and this may be the chip on the shoulder talking, but alot of KSHSAA stuff hurts small, rural schools worse...ie Freestyle - who is going to run a FS program in Hugoton, KS???

lastly - how do you do that thing where you box quotes from previous posts?

Go to FAQ, then to "What UBBCode can I use in my posts?"

My son tried middle school wrestling in 7th grade. He wrestled 10 matches and got 6 penalty calls against him for being too rough. He was wrestling like he did at Tulsa and other tournaments where you have to be at that level to survive. I pulled him after 10 matches and he went back and wrestled club. If was not the right fit for him.

On the other hand one of my very good friends kids wanted to try wrestling and MS wrestling was perfect for him to get started in the sport. So it's different for different kids.

My point would be everyone wants top kids to participate, but the rules and the culture is not set up for it. If you really want top kids to participate then KSHSAA needs to open it up as many others have stated. That would be a major start. Why is it that we are asking only the top kids to sacrifice? They have sacrificed with hours of blood, sweat and tears. We are wanting all the benefits for the newer kids, and that would be wonderful. But in real life to ask the kids that have done the work to get to a higher level, to give up club competition, and be asked to dumb down there level of activity, for sake of learning the team concept is too much in many cases. There are alot of other chances to learn "team" concepts. Clearly the newer kids are not involved enough in wrestling to ask more of them. Heck many are just trying the sport out. And that is awesome, but call it what it is. A great learning ground for basic wrestling and having fun. Those are two wonderful things. Many Middle school meets in east KS don't even keep team score so that is not the driving benefit. And kids can get that from middle school duals, etc.

You can say that top kids not participating, produces wrestlers or families that feel they are better than others and don't fit into the team concept or help others, but that is crap. My son volunteered more time that almost any kid I know to help others in wrestling. Little kids, big kids, newer kids, it didn't matter...But not at the cost of him not being able to get some of what he needed. Heck that 7th grade year, myself and my son worked a couple nights a week in our basement, with his buddies from the MS team to help them. And he was not even on the team anymore. Those are some the kids that are now helping the HS team.

My point is there is no one answer. My belief is do what is right for your kid and balance that with what is right for the team. The key word is balance.

Just my two cents.

Here is what i would like explained, why is it not harmful to an 11-12 year old sixth grade student to participate in Jr High volleyball, basketball, or track while at the same time participating in the same activity at the "club" level with all of the outside coaching and competition they want yet when they hit 7th through 12th grade it is too much. Kind of seems like a double standard to me but it happens all the time.

If you lived in my neighborhood you would be taking Jake to EKWC and there would be no Beeson on the DeSoto MS wrestling team. I would bet BIG money on that. Which, by the way, is still within the rules.

What gets me is that I have a ton of kids on our track team that leave track to go to soccer, baseball, basketball, etc... They cannot go to a Hershey Track meet though... They can play 30 baseball games, 10 soccer games and run track for their school but they can't attend a private track event? Same issue with wrestling.

The KSHSAA issue is over-extending kids but it only applies if it's the same sport. Meanwhile we have injured kids who's parents can't figure out why they have injuries... "I'm not sure why Billy is so sore, he is only running track, playing baseball and soccer."

Stupid.

I'd take that bet...your gonnna regret...I'm the best that's ever been :-)

Just a couple of thoughts I want to express then move on because this argument could go on and on... First off, I never ever was trying to imply that middle school wrestling alone will make champions. I am blessed year after year with some great club kids. I am just saying that wrestling in middle school won't hurt. I find it a little humorous that the two guys arguing on behalf of middle school wrestling are from Ark City and Newton... the top two teams in 5A from this year. However, let me just say that some of you earlier stated that it is just not the right fit for your kid and you may be right. I just would appreciate people making their minds up using the right reasons and not for the wrong reason such as just because the parents don't like it. Let these kids do what they want to do and many of them want to be a part of the team that they will stick with hopefully all through high school. Finally, remember what this thread was started for and that was to change the pioneer league to an early season. Lets get this on the table at the league meeting and make sure you are e-mailing your A.D.'s and making your feelings known. Sorry if your not in the Pioneer league but this is just to good of opportunity to let slip by. I promise it will elevate wrestling as a whole in the metro area... If it doesn't... I will let everyone on this forum that disagreed with me punch me one time in the gut.