" THERE IS NO CRYING IN WRESTLING "

Just on the forums!

Not now. Because there are NO LOSERS.

Men, in my opinion, once they are weighed in and on the bracket, if they forfeit for any reason other than illness or injury, they are out of the tourney. If they are weighed in and on the bracket, it counts as a loss and the other wrestler counts as a win. I believe, unless the rules have changed since I retired, their only recourse is to walk out, shake hands, start the match, and default. That way they have the ability to continue on the bracket without disqualification from the tourney. I have been gone a while and maybe the rules have changed since then, but I believe that to be true. Someone else might have more current information that would negate what I have said, but I believe that is the case. I can't imagine the state making an exception in a regional or a state meet.

Keith - I can agree to disagree. No soft spot, I probably over did the experience comment. I think a lot of us like to use the time period thing a little to much, part of us getting older. I think this day in age the acceptance of girls wrestling boys is much easier then thirty or forty years ago. Maybe the church can donate the money to get a girls division of their own and can help resolve several issues all at once.

Tim King

Which makes it very simple. You are ill and default. You take medicine. You feel good enough to wrestle on the backside.

Exactly. Dang I'm glad I was right on that. (That was for you Richard).

If you don't know or care to take the time to verify then please refrain from posting was is merely an opinion at this point on an issue that is very important to these wrestlers. You want to add insult to injury? These kids did NOTHING wrong. They are innocent victims of a policy that was not in practice and there was not any certainty to until very recently. Everyone says they are in wrestling "for the kids" but I see plenty of posts are here that a directly pointed towards hurting kids. So many uneducated posts have been written with no one willing to do the research. Surely everyone knows that the Wichita and Salina archdiocese permit boys to wrestle girls. This could be the tipping point for major reactions to this policy but in the mean time two of the best wrestlers in the state at this weight are being victimized by a political/religious stance by one man. Be considerate of the complexity of this issue and the innocence of these two wrestlers. And, for the record, I strongly feel it should be a gender specific sport. It is in Texas and it will never really grow in Kansas until it is. So, if you want a fight to fight, push KSHSAA to add wrestling for girls making this sport MALE only.

Now that is something I agree with!!

Originally Posted By: BSD
I see no exception for religious beliefs only for injury and sickness.


Which makes it very simple. You are ill and default. You take medicine. You feel good enough to wrestle on the backside.
_________________________
Eric Johnson

www.scienceprovesit.com

Acts 4:12

So the church and school says they are not allowed to wrestle against girls but it is ok to lie about it. Is the tournament director going to allow this to happen when he knows it is a lie. What about the two kids they will face on the backside. They have done nothing wrong but follow the rules but they ( their coaches, team, fans and family) are suppose to say nothing.

Anyone ever hear of Seperation of Church and State?

Yeah . . . but they are quite inconsistent about it. Pull out some money and read what it says on it . . . "In God we Trust".

Come down to JC and see our nice granite monument of the Ten Commandments right in the front lawn of one of our gov't buildings.

Personally, I am a God-fearing/believing man . . . but I also have respect for my 'brother in Adam' who does not believe in the Lord.

Sadly a bar is usually a better place to find a genuine and loving person that will just listen to you with empathy . . . if you are sharing a problem with him/her . . .

Yes, Yes, and Yes again (this is in response to Wills last post)

Cokely, I have idea what you are talking about. I read the rule before I posted that and it hasn't changed. As usual I will reserve the right to think or post at will. Nothing anyone says on here will have any effect at all on what happens to any of the kids anyway. No idea what I said that offended you, I think it is unfortunate for all of them, girls and boys.

Like I said, I was speaking hypothetically. My son is done with HS and is wrestling in college now. He did not go to a private school so we never had to deal with what surely would be quite a moral dilemma I imagine. I am sad for those that do have to struggle with this conflict and I hope it works out. I am also happy for them though if that is what they want and I respect their commitment to their faith. I was just saying for me, my son getting his just deserts would be the most important thing. I would never be in that position and/or would never put my son in that position unless that is what he wanted. But I'm glad to hear that you would stand by me if we were in that predicament. Thank you. I do think it is incredibly ridiculous though and perhaps even selfish that this conflict even exists although I am definitely not wanting to be disrespectful or pass judgement. Best wishes to all.

I have read this entire thread, including all of the pros and cons of why or why not girls should be allowed to compete with boys in wrestling. Me? I am opposed to it, on several levels, but one of the reasons that I think that it is a bad idea is that, even if the boy wrestler is not Catholic, and has no prohibition of wrestling a girl (from his church/school), there is (many times) a residual "holding back" on the part of the male, due to upbringing against beating up on a girl. It is unfair to the boy, that's all. PERIOD.

And a second thing - I ask you, how could a girl who won because of these type of defaults due to her gender take any satisfaction in advancing?
I am a competitor, and the last thing that I as a competitor want is to have victory handed to me. I want to EARN it!
And I would venture to say that ANY competitor feels the same way.
So how can she feel good about advancing to State and winning (?) second place in the regional when the only match that she wrestled, she was pinned???

Below is the result of the 113 lb classification at Mill Valley Regional today:



You can see that Kali Gracy advanced due to two "injury" defaults, and Mill Valley received 16 team points for a wrestler that won zero points on the mat. The only time that she did go to the mat, she was pinned by the kid from KC Turner!


Consider: The young man from SJA was 18-1 on the season. Do you think that he would have won against an opponent with a 6-6 record? Especially in view of what he did after his "injury" default:

Shawnee Mission South kid got hosed because two catholic wrestlers (coaches/administration actually) lied and said they were "injured". If your religious convictions make you not wrestle a girl, those same convictions must dictate you cannot lie to get around a catholic rule. Once again, STA and SJA show exactly what type of "good catholics" they are.

NO!!! Two kids got hosed out of the opportunity to at least fairly compete for a chance at State. If STA and SJA are members of KSHSAA there should be no special rule for them because of religious beliefs. None of the other competitors would be allowed to forfeit and then continue to wrestle. This is a very slippery slope and the practice needs to be stopped. If private schools want to be members they should have to follow the rules just like everyone else. Had male competitors forfeited to male wrestlers, everyone on this forum would be up in arms because they were manipulating the brackets. Play by the rules or play somewhere else.

Clearly you do not understand the circumstances surrounding this event. This is not a personal rule, a team rule, or even a school rule. This is a rule made by the archbishop. These wrestlers themselves did not decide to do this, a body governing their school made this choice You could have read that countless times in this thread but it seems you refused to.

This was a unfortunate situation that some choices and policies made by those old enough and mature enough should have been smart enough to not let happen. We all know that the bracket could have wrestled as it should have been wrestled. One young man competed all season long, making weight, practicing for one thing in mind to make it to state. He was robbed the winnable opportunity when the bracket was blown up. This is a complete mistake by our sport. It definitely changed the score of the tournament, the placings of individuals, and it will effect the state tournament. The church and the state caused the predicament but adults should have done the right thing. Doing things that do the most for the team or a trophy sometimes is not the right thing to do no matter how hard it is to do. She should have had the opportunity to earn her state birth with a win she had a chance to win. But her qualification will always be remembered as a fluke that shouldn't have happened. Yes the two catholic schools knew the rules and what could possibly happen but again things could have been done to work for the greater good while teaching a great lesson to everyone involved and most importantly the kids. Wins, medals, trophies, pay backs, all of it mean nothing if we fail our youth and our sport. The same consolation semi match would have happen if she walked out and forfeited before Gabe Gooch had to forfeit it could have easily been worked out. But I am sure some hard feelings and justifiable hard feelings probably at that, egos, pride, you name it came into play and brought a decision that seen by a lot was ok. It was by the rules ok, but was it best for the overall situation. In my opinion not. It is all done and nothing can be changed but the State and or the Church need to spend some time getting things right so this predicament never happens again. I really hope these statements do not anger people, it is not the intention of the post. The intent is to try and remind people we are here for the kids and sometimes a black and white approach should not be taken. There are options that are there if we just make the tough calls to use them.

Catholic schools dont have to follow things like rules. They are too busy recruiting good wrestlers from public schools and then bending what rules they do follow to suit their needs.