I don't have a horse in this race either, but if this is not FM, what is? He intentionally lead with his head to his opponents head. I do feel sorry for Mr. Wilson, as I think it was done more out of frustration rather than to injure his opponent, however where do we draw the line? If the officials are only going to give an unsportsmanlike penalty in this situation, what does that tell all the other coaches and wrestlers. Unfortunately for Wilson, I do think the appropriate call was made in this particular situation.

Blast dubble: 1st thing most say when teaching it.Head to the middle of the chest as hard and fast as you can.
I knowI have heard many many times coaches say to use your head.To me for it to be FM he would have had to have ahold of the boys head.Than try to deliver a head butt.
I have never got head butted that I did not want to beat the crap out of the guy giving it to me.To me if it was FM the SH boy would have been mad.I think this should play a part in the out come.
You have 2 about to be full men here.I think they should be treated as so.If the SH boy thinks it was bad it should be a finished deal.But if the SH boy thinks this was the roung call That should be takken in to acount.Just like in most cases in law.
I have met the 2 young men a few times.They are and will be good men.I have no horse in the race but know if he would have did the same movment to my boy,I would just ask him what he thought.Cassed solved.

Charles Bradford

I don't see a video at the above link. Is anybody else having that problem also?

Thanks.

Click the above link, then wait for the video to populate, then click it.

It works for me.

And I also do not have a dog in this fight, but my opinion is that the call should have been USC, not FM.

Hopefully upon review it will be downgraded to USC.

I am a 73 year old spectator and what i see in this video is not as bad as the last 8 seconds of the 126 lb. match at Augusta Reginal finals Saturday. Just my opinion. I wish i could see it again to confirm my disgust. I didn't know either wrestler.

Thanks. [/quote]

Click the above link, then wait for the video to populate, then click it.

It works for me.

And I also do not have a dog in this fight, but my opinion is that the call should have been USC, not FM.

Hopefully upon review it will be downgraded to USC.

[/quote]

Thank you. I was able to watch the video by following your directions. Previously, I was too impatient with my slow connection.

It looks like Meck's initial reaction after the headbutt was something to the effect of, "What the h_ll did he just do that to me for?!"

Thanks again.

It might already be in this thread and I'll have to go back and find it . . . but what does the RULEBOOK state regarding what a FM is?

To me it looked like it was not a legit td attempt but rather a frustrated attempt to give Meck some 'pay-back pain' . . . with too much testosterone pumping. Still a sad deal.

Totally agree, this does not look like a takedown attempt. It is hard to take someone down when your arms are behind your back. Also, if it was a setup to initiate a headlock I have no idea how that could have worked as his arms were no where near his opponent.

I think the right call was probably made as that type of blow to the head is very dangerous and has no place in the sport of wrestling. Look at all the ongoing controversy that we're seeing in contact sports like football with head-to-head contact and the research that is being done on brain damage caused by concussions. The only way to prevent this in the sport of wrestling is through harsh penalties. It's a difficult situation because of the side story of Wilson battling back from injury, he and Meck's friendship, and the fact that this is his senior season.

Very unfortunate circumstance, but sometimes you've got to just bite the bullet and live to fight another day, and not let your emotions, testosterone, adrenaline, etc. get the best of you.

Best of luck to both wrestlers in their future endeavors.

Well said Ricky Bobby. I found an article that I relevant to this situation:

Flagrant Misconduct
By Andrew Dennison

2012‐13 NFHS Wrestling Rule 5‐12, Flagrant Misconduct.

It is my opinion, that a Flagrant Misconduct call, is a call that over my 26 years of officiating has to be one of the least called violations across our profession as high school wrestling officials. Like most rules,it is left to the decision of the official. I might see the use of an elbow differently than other officials do,
and call that wrestling ‐ after all it is a contact sport.

Under the rules, Flagrant Misconduct refers to a
behavior that is so offensive that the referee feels he/she needs to disqualify a wrestler from
competition. This is left to the judgment of the referee, a comprehensive list of violations would be impossible to compile. Flagrant Misconduct is a one –time offense. An act that is subsequently
unacceptable, that all athletes know better than to do them. Some examples of Flagrant Misconductare outlined in section 12 under ART 2. sub category (b); striking, butting, elbowing, kicking an opponent, and use of tobacco products. This also includes biting, if in the opinion of the referee a wrestler bites his/her opponent this will be deemed as intentional biting and will be called as flagrant misconduct.

Flagrant misconduct is not limited just to the wrestling area and can be called on other
team personnel and coaches prior to, during or after the match.

There is “NO” warning for Flagrant Misconduct! It is an immediate removal from the event for coaches,
contestants, and any spectators who may become offensive. In the event that a student or contestant has to be removed from the event, he/she must have authorized school personnel to supervise the said individual, if that cannot be provided then they shall be confined to the bench area. A wrestler who is disqualified in an individual tournament is not entitled to any points earned in the tournament. All advancement points, fall points, placement points are negated. All vacancies created in the event pairing shall be scored as forfeits. In dual meet competition all team points will be negated. If a spectator has to be removed from an event for flagrant misconduct, no team points shall be deducted
from any team.

The biggest take away from Flagrant Misconduct is that it is an immediate removal from
the event. There is a deduction of 3 team points for contestants, coaches and team personnel and thereis “NO WARNING”.

Example:
Wrestler B is on bottom and is in a cross face cradle, and wrestler A shows you teeth marks that is consistent with a bite (both upper and lower teeth marks). Wrestler B says it was from his cross‐face(which I have seen marks from upper teeth on a forearm) but after you look at the forearm you can see where both upper and lower teeth have made a mark in an oval fashion. This is clearly an intentional act and should be dealt with accordingly by placing your right/left had on the top of your head with a bend in the elbow and call flagrant misconduct. This must be brought to the official’s attention immediately, if wrestler A stops you in the 3rd period and says “he bit me in the first period, look at my arm”. This bite will NOT be given any consideration; wrestler B must bring it to your attention immediately. You have both wrestlers shake hands and raise the hand of wrestler B as the winner.

Flagrant Misconduct
By Andrew Dennison

Then you as the official may and should explain to the contestants and coaches what he/she did and the
punishment that goes along with this penalty. You must report this to the head scores table so that the correct team points are deducted, and if in an individual event the head scores table know the series of actions that must take place. Most of the time they will not know, and they will need our assistance or the rule book for guidance in a tournament.

This is only one example of many situations where Flagrant Misconduct can occur by coaches, wrestlers
team personnel, and spectators while we perform our duties as wrestling officials. It is our job to use sound judgment, and be consistent and that we must consider the offence(s) serious enough to remove the individual from the event.

References:
2013‐13 NFHS Wrestling Rules; 7‐4‐3, 7‐5‐5, 8‐1‐3, 8‐1‐6
2012‐13 NFHS Wrestling Case Book and Manual; 7.4.3 A and B, 7.5.3, 7.5.5, 7.5.6

Taken from:

http://www.kyofficials.com/sites/kyoffic...tMisconduct.pdf

If this was Kids wrestling and was in Subs, District, or State, and he was ejected, he would miss this year's State series AND next year's State series.

Check out the ejection reports. There are 12 youngsters that were ejected from last year's Series; AND they are barred from wrestling Subs this year.

I feel bad for this young man, but perhaps just as bad for the young kids that will miss TWO State tournaments for Kids, all because of one moment of bad judgement.

As long as we are addressing this subject, I suggest that this rule needs to be addressed in Kids wrestling. The punishment needs to match the wrongful actions. I don't think it does.

Subject for another board! And it was and voted to remain as it is.

I hope this referee isn't refereeing in college! 95% of college wrestlers wrestle way rougher then that. I got punched in the face this year and the ref didn't do anything!

Always start with the rule:

Flagrant misconduct is any physical act...considered by the referee to be serious enough to disqualify a contestant...includ[ing]...butting.

So if the official thought it was a head butt, he followed the rule. Whether he has discretion not to follow the rule is an interesting question but some obviously think he does. Could he ignore a little bite or call it UC? Or a light slug? Should he downgrade the call because its Regionals and the consequences are greater than a regular match? Honestly, from what I can see on the video, which isn't much, it would have been less controversial to call it UC or UR. But do you want officials that are calling it like they see it, or calling it to avoid upsetting the fans and coaches?

For those that think there is some "appeal" to the state I've never heard of one. And there's no clear basis, under the rule, to change it.

For those asking about coach questioning the call--they have the right to do so. A call can be reversed by the official, and should be if he believes he misapplied the rule.

For those that are trying to quantify how "bad" this was, what the wrestler's intent was, or trying to apply situational ethics because it was a big call in a big match, those are things that an official has to deal with every time he steps out on the mat. There are dozens of "either way" calls every day. If you start worrying about the venue you are in trouble.

The video isn't a very good one, doesn't really show much from the angle, and there's not enough film to see if there was anything leading up to the butt. But he lead with the head and made contact. Under the rule, that's just like leading with a fist and making contact.

If the official did a "double reversal" as reported that is unfortunate because it makes him appear uncertain and unsure of himself.

The one "out" for a young official in this situation, and its hard for coaches to do, is if the coaches thought it was a bad call that both of them go to the table and ask that it be reversed. If that had happened, both head coaches asked for it, I believe the official might have changed his call. That didn't happen here, obviously. But I've had an opposing coach support the complaining coach's position and it makes reversing the call very easy.

My apologies. I did high-jack the thread a bit. But I thought it was noteworthy that Kids has such a harsh penalty when compared to high school students. Plus, I hope to garner support from those that interested in both high school and Kids.

And I will be raising the issue on the Kids portion as Subs gets closer. No decision is final and I don't think most parents are aware of this rule.

Mr. Ford beat me to it with the rule. And Mr. Welsh posted a good post. Headbutting is a clear FM and Mr. Ford makes great points about would you rather the official lessen the call based on the circumstances? This kid was frustrated, he lead with his head.

You see heads bumping together as a result of wrestlers trying to get head position in ties and so on and he was not trying to gain head position. His arms were back and not reaching for the head, hands or arms (as they would be if you were trying to get head position to work your offense). He clearly lunged at his opponent. I believe it was the right call. An unfortunate situation for all involved but the right call nonetheless.

Some things that I can see from this whole ordeal:

1. Yes that was FM, and that was not a takedown attempt. So the right call was made by the official. You cannot even headbutt like that in MMA!
2. I am all for being physical and aggressive and this is not the way to go about that. I do not like the fact that Spencer does not get to wrestle next weekend. He is a tough wrestler and has a chance to do well at the state tournament. Just let him lose the match and wrestle again next weekend.
3. I think that if Meck was injured and not able to wrestle next weekend this would be a different ongoing discussion. If he was injured and not able to wrestle then the DQ for next weekend should be warranted.
Intense situation for an intense time of year.

What? Make an exception to the rules because he is a "good" kid?

C. Dee Gard

I want to say something in defense of the Heights coaching staff and say that Coach Albers and Coach Parks are great people and they did not go after Spencer. I heard it myself that neither of them wish to see a career end like that. With that I say that Spencer was wrong and made a bad decision at a very bad time. I know I wish to see him continue as does Nick and the Heights staff as we are all wrestling fans... the last thing I want to hear is there was a Heights coach trying to lesson the competition for Nick come state... I think after the score at :15 left in the 3rd, we all know that Nick is the one to beat.

From what I have read on this thread, (A) the official initially called FM (B) he then reversed himself and called it USC. (C) The Heights coaches were arguing with the official, saying that it should be FM, the Seaman coaching staff did not argue pro or con, they waited for the official's decision. (D) the Heights coaches KNEW that if they were successful in arguing their case for FM that Wilson would be disqualified for State; ultimately the decision was made by the official to re-reverse the call and make it FM, thus automatic DQ for Wilson at State.

Conclusion: The Heights coaches WANTED the disqualification, otherwise, why argue for FM? Their wrestler was going to State anyway, right?

Just my observations as a disinterested fan, got no dog in this fight... But if the facts above are as stated, then a reasonable conclusion could be drawn that the Heights coaches wanted Wilson eliminated as competition.
Hard to believe, right?

One major problem with an online talk forum is that statements can be repeated so frequently that they become generally accepted as true, even when preceded with qualifiers such as "if it is true" or "assuming things were as stated."

Because of the nature of this incident and the repercussions to an outstanding wrestler, it has generated a lot of traffic, with valid arguments over whether the head butt occurred and whether it should have been called flagrant misconduct. It has also been alleged that the Shawnee Heights coaches were pushing for the FM call, an allegation that has been then repeated several times until it appears to be almost accepted as fact.

I have heard from the SHHS coaching staff and, although they admitted to being upset over the head butt, they were adamant that they did not request or pressure the official to declare a flagrant misconduct. I know Coach Parks well and am confident that he would not deny this if it were the case. I'd like to caution everyone about being careful about accepting unsupported allegations as fact!