I believe the consequences of being ejected from the Subs, Districts, or State are too harsh. Unless I am mistaken, not only are you ejected from that particular tournament and the remainder of the “State Series” this year, you are suspended from all of the “State Series” next year. For example, see Section II, Article 1, paragraph 9 of the Bylaws and view the list of suspensions in the Results menu. Twelve wrestlers were ejected from last year’s State Series and they can not participate in Subs this year. I suspect it is rare to have a comparable penalty at high school, college, or professional level of any sport.

I know this issue has been decided in the past, but that should not justify retaining a bad rule. I plan to follow the formal procedure for making a change to this rule next year. Egregious behavior can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, instead of the "nuclear option" for everyone/everything/every age.

I hope that everyone knows that one mistake the next 3 weeks will not only eliminate your wrestler, your coach, your favorite official, your club officer, or you from this year’s State Series. It will eliminate them from the State Series next year too. I think we should change this rule.

It was voted on as late as last state body meeting and voted to keep the rule as is. My advice to those that are challenged sportsmanship-wise is, DON'T GET EJECTED!!!

This issue has needed some teeth put into it and it finally got it. What punishment does a kid who is already losing in say the district consolation semi finals going to get for being flagrant? Other than losing and having to serve 8 days suspension (but I presume following State it goes to the next calendar year), but since it's districts he's not out anything at all, other than the ejection that really means nothing.

The same thing goes for State, they are to miss 8 days following the suspension but with nothing after it and reverting to the calendar year they would have to miss the first tournament of the next year which was December 1st and I know a lot of kids don't really start until after the 1st of the year, so again no real consequences served to the kid.

I support this punishment as it not only teaches kids some self control, but if they cannot control themselves it goes to show them that it can have real consequences, not only in wrestling but in life as well.

Wow! So, getting kicked out of a tournament isn't the real punishment? But the following week suspension is the real consequence? And since the kid is not placing at this tournament you are in favor of suspending him the entire next season so he understands exactly what he did. And to be clear, what he did is often times a judgement call that YOU made. Can range from unsportsman for one ref, unnecessary roughness to another, FM to you. And you got your muscle (teeth) I believe you called it so use it. Glad I'm not your kid.

I am all for consequences but I believe this punishment is over the top ridiculous!

I would propose a month long suspension into the next season.

For some if not most of the 14U's and the H.S. division that month is of no consequence since they will be wrestling with the school teams till next years qualifiers anyway. This is the reason the rule was changed and it has had an effect according to the numbers that were presented at the state body meeting.

Totally agree Pat. Where's the punishment for the official with the bad call? I bet 50% of the ejections could have been settled if the coach would have approached a situation differently, and the other 50% by the ref given the respect of actually listening. Let me guess Alex, you have full self control and approach every matter as a professional right? Gimme a break…

EXAMPLE: How about the next time a referee gets PROVED that he made a bad call that can’t be reversed to a kid who has busted his tail off for an entire season (or all year for that matter) and he walks away with second in state or nationals, that ref should be suspended for an entire year right??? It’s the same concept. Or, each time a referee doesn’t wave near fall points he has to pay 50 bucks? Or when a coach cordially approaches the table for a question on a call and the coach gets told to sit down (like a dog) by the official, that official should have to sit out for the next 2 events and pay a fine right??? That’ll teach em’ huh?

Alex, your comment opened this up for scrutiny.

[quote=sportsfan02]It was voted on as late as last state body meeting and voted to keep the rule as is. /quote]

The fact it was voted on so recently actually supports another review next year. Has it resolved the purported problems? Did the punishments actually fit the bad behaviors? Every year we have people leave the sport and new people join. Given the severity of the punishment, I think this deserves thorough consideration and the excuse “we already decided that” carries little weight.

[quote=Bronco Wrestler]This issue has needed some teeth put into it and it finally got it. What punishment does a kid who is already losing in say the district consolation semi finals going to get for being flagrant? Other than losing and having to serve 8 days suspension (but I presume following State it goes to the next calendar year), but since it's districts he's not out anything at all, other than the ejection that really means nothing./quote]

This reasoning actually supports my position. If someone “has nothing to lose” and cheap shots someone with a Flagrant Misconduct, they may deserve to miss the State next year. But for a simple ejection, this is too much. Having the same penalty for 8 year old little Jimmy who loses it after being upset and for an official who loses control after getting into it with a coach does not make sense.

This rule is ridiculous. These are kids and they make mistakes. The punishment DOES NOT fit the crime. Further, some of the officials don't apply the rules properly, they don't understand the difference between unsportsmanlike and flagrant misconduct. Some officials, like Mr. Ryan, are overzealous in their position of power and don't understand that most of the people in the sport are volunteers who donate great amounts of time and money to make this sport happen. HS wrestlers are closer to being adults who should be more capable of understanding rules and repercussions yet their penalty is to simply be removed from that event only! The problem has NOT been growing and was never even significant to begin with. Guys like Sports0 who doesn't coach or even have a wrestler on the mat throw their voice around on this forum without applying any common sense or logic. I would agree with putting some teeth into it for parents or coaches but not for wrestlers. We are only going to run them out of the sport. The NFHSA has all of the data and they outline the punishment in their rule book. Why do we think we need to make it more punitive? STUPID

Shows how much you know!!!

Therein lies the problem. It's the adults who set the poor examples for the kids by being ejected repeatedly or accepting the same from their kids. Sadly, all of our kids must pay a price for the mistakes of our parents or adult mentors.

"Therein lies the problem. It's the adults who set the poor examples for the kids by being ejected repeatedly or accepting the same from their kids. Sadly, all of our kids must pay a price for the mistakes of our parents or adult mentors."
Sports0

What??? I am saying that parents should be held more accountable for their actions because they are ADULTS. Kids learn and they grow up. This is just a sport and just wrestling. Punishing a KID for a bad decision for basically twelve months is ABSURD. And Greg, I have NEVER seen you in the corner at Kids state or any tournament I have attended.

And that is what the rule change is designed to do. Help them learn. Sometimes life's lessons have to be painful. And the longer the problem has been allowed to exist the more distasteful the medicine can be. Again, as I stated earlier, there is an EASY remedy for anyone that has a problem with this rule. DON'T GET EJECTED! Our coaches had a long talk with our competitors last night about the ejection rules and what was expected of them sportsmanship-wise, even though we've NEVER had a competitor ejected in the history of our club. I believe parents/coaches/clubs get what they readily accept.

Are you sure you weren't cooling your heels out on the sidewalk after being ejected, at the time?

Greg,

Does that mean you have or have not been in the corner at Kids state or any tournament that he has attended?

Hey Greg, obviously you have never been at the state tournament and had your wrestler screwed out of a state championship as I and many of us may have. Next time you get pulled over for a speeding ticket, maybe they'll take your license away for a year or possibly throw you in jail... How's that for punishment

We aren't punishing a kid for a year, he only has an 8 day suspension and cannot wrestle in the qualifiers. He still gets his whole year of experience but cannot qualify for the State tournament.



This is not the same. If you were comparing a ticket you got when in a work or school zone vs. not maybe you'd have an argument. There is a reason the fines are stiffer in a work or school zone, just like they are in the qualifying series.

I know how intense and passionate this sport is, everyone does. It does not detract from the fact that we as people have to control our emotions and outbursts no matter the cirucumstance or place.



Mr. Cokeley, I don't feel you have seen officiate enough to have a clear judgment on my "being overzealous". I work every weekend from December though March officating and usually one or two nights a week. Usually the only weekend I have off is maybe one at the end of December & one in February.

I do know the commitment it takes to do this, yes we get paid to be there but doesn't change the fact we give up a lot of our own time to be there as well. It's not about the money anyway for us, we as officials love the job or we wouldn't be doing it. To say we as officials (or myself in this case) do not understand what it takes to give up our time for others is absurd.



How many flagrant misconducts are called on wrestler 8 years and under? or 10, 12, etc.? I'd bet the majority are on the older age groups, parents, & coaches, rather than the younger wrestlers themselves.

Flagrant misconduct is pretty clear cut in the rules, and is usually called pretty straight forward. A punch, elbow, vulgar language, biting, etc. is pretty easy to see and call.

You can also be ejected from the tournament for multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, so what's worse, one bad outburst that causes the ejection or being penalized several times for "little" occurances? Either way the wrestler was in the wrong, were they not?

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I spoke up about this rule at the state meeting because it is too harsh on the children! I feel like the punishment should fit the crime. I am sure that just being ejected for the tournament is going to make more of a difference in the childs behavior than a year or greater ejection. The only consequence is that the child does not come back to wrestling! I was taught that wrestling is the one sport that teaches character, discipline, integrity, pride... All great qualities I want to teach my own children. This rule does not allow for high emotions that are bound to be present at the most important time of the year. It should be on a case by case basis, not clear cut for everyone. Rules are guidelines but seriously common sense should also be allowed when determining consequences. AND yes there is a definite difference in unsportsmanlike and flagrant misconduct and that is where the issue begins in my opinion. A good ref can keep balance and control on his mat, and then you have refs who think they are god.
-Sarah Hartley

did someone say your not allowed to use profanity. well guess i missed that one. i was wondering why at every tournament someone tells me to stop. guess i will have to work on that one. i think we all need to go to anger management classes lol

oh yes the almighty ref that says dont question my call as he is on the wrong damn side of the kids and cant see or is still standing while the kid is on his back not counting back points and by the time they get down there the kid has already flipped back over. so do not question their judgement. im almost thinking before i even get to state that i will be kicked out lol.