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 You make the call...
#226951
03/04/14 06:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326
Cokeley
OP
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326 |
Should there have been two back points awarded? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwyFMDSKm9EIn case you were wondering there were none awarded as the official told Coach Carroll "It wasn't even close!"
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: Cokeley]
#226953
03/04/14 06:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 153
AAA
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: AAA]
#226954
03/04/14 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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I viewed this four times on my phone and then three times on the computer before I came up with a call. Unfortunately the official has to make the call upon seeing the situation one time. During that one time he has to decide when control has been gained and when to start counting. The official did several things right. He immediately went into his count instead of awarding the takedown first. I have seen this happen. He counted while standing instead of getting down on the mat first. I have seen this happen. I also know that he confirmed with the second official, which was making his own count in his head. I think this official gave a fast two count, confirmed with the second official and made the right call. He waited for control and made a fast two count. Put me down for takedown 2 and no back points. Although I think it may have been close, the right call was made without reviewing it seven or eight times.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: Beeson]
#226955
03/04/14 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
smokeycabin
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When the wrestler kicked in his left leg the back point count should have started, the reversal, control and beginning of back point count happen simultaneously - it was close. It is no different than a feet to back takedown. The only question would be the timing of when the bottom wrestler broke back off of 45 degrees/exposure or criteria. The hand signals by the ref indicated a 2 count. I have always said leave no doubt in the officials eyes - another 1 second hold in that position would have left no doubt - tough call.
I did have the benefit of multiple reviews with no heat during a battle.
Last edited by smokeycabin; 03/04/14 10:32 AM.
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: Cokeley]
#226969
03/04/14 01:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 750
L.Geyer
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: L.Geyer]
#226971
03/04/14 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 197
CWB
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: CWB]
#226972
03/04/14 01:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,433
Chief Renegade
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Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: CWB]
#226973
03/04/14 01:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 20
Andrew C
Junior Member
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As a fan of the high-flyer, Id say 2-2. I saw that one live sucks that he didn't get a state title because of that..
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: Andrew C]
#226975
03/04/14 01:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 138
bighead
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Posts: 138 |
Looks like 2 back points to me
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: bighead]
#226982
03/04/14 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
el scorcho
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David Budke
USAWKS Referee
KSHSAA Referee
dbudke@fhtc.edu
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: bighead]
#226983
03/04/14 02:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 527
J. Dale
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The kid lands in a bridge. That is saying "Crap, I'm in trouble" and that's when the count should start, just like on a peterson. If the count starts when the bridge starts it's a 4 count. We need an evaluation and mentoring system in place. How about hiring a lead evaluator like the NCAA does to go around the state and grade the officials. The match right before this one had an official that was threatening to call a kid for stalling for being on a knee. He did it from the opening whistle. It's getting idiotic at times. Hopefully KSHSAA will view these videos and use it as a chance to improve the sport for all the kids that work so hard. If not then what good are they?
Well you're just a special kind of stupid aren't you?
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: bighead]
#226984
03/04/14 02:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
bradbee
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It is easy to say 2+2 after watching the video... It is also easy to say that it cost a kid a State Championship. Truth is it could go either way and that 1/2 second is not the problem. There was an additional 5 minutes and 59 seconds that helped decide that match. The problem I saw all weekend had nothing to do with 1/2 second judgment calls. It was the 30 to 45 seconds that would go by with one wrestler having to chase the other to try for takedowns to get a win. Stalling is a must, especially in these close matches we get at state. Kids can not be allowed to get up by 2 or 3 with 45 seconds left and run the rest of the match, knowing that they will only get a stall warning, or maybe give up 1 point. I believe if a kid is running for 45 seconds he should get hit for 4 or 5 Stallings. That will help our beloved sport, make kids wrestle, not let them run to protect a lead. So in closing, yes it was a close call in that 1/2 second.... but lets worry more about the obvious 30 to 45 seconds we saw in a lot of matches.
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: bradbee]
#226989
03/04/14 03:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17
Niehuesj
Junior Member
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I would say you need a better video to make the call. Yes his hand swings twice but, but almost simultaneously you get a clear view of the bottom wrestler and he is rolling over already towards his front. The book says 4 inches or 45 degrees. It's a judgement call. when does he have control, when does the kid come out of the 45 degree zone. based on the video (there has to be a better one out there), I would have to agree with the ref. Which. leads to my next question where is the rest of the video, why did it stop where it did. For anyone to make a concise review of the call you would need a better angle.
John Niehues
niehuesj57@gmail.com
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: bradbee]
#226991
03/04/14 03:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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It is easy to say 2+2 after watching the video... It is also easy to say that it cost a kid a State Championship. Truth is it could go either way and that 1/2 second is not the problem. There was an additional 5 minutes and 59 seconds that helped decide that match. The problem I saw all weekend had nothing to do with 1/2 second judgment calls. It was the 30 to 45 seconds that would go by with one wrestler having to chase the other to try for takedowns to get a win. Stalling is a must, especially in these close matches we get at state. Kids can not be allowed to get up by 2 or 3 with 45 seconds left and run the rest of the match, knowing that they will only get a stall warning, or maybe give up 1 point. I believe if a kid is running for 45 seconds he should get hit for 4 or 5 Stallings. That will help our beloved sport, make kids wrestle, not let them run to protect a lead. So in closing, yes it was a close call in that 1/2 second.... but lets worry more about the obvious 30 to 45 seconds we saw in a lot of matches. I have to agree here. If a wrestler backs out and circles for 15-20 seconds there should at least be three stall calls. Avoiding action completely is inexcuseable. Take a shot and hang on to a leg, but to dance around the other wrestler making him chase you is ridiculous. Yes, this did happen several times at the tournament and sometimes for 30-45 seconds. I have to agree this is a bigger problem than a 1/2 second slow or fast count.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: Beeson]
#227000
03/04/14 04:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15
AndrewFTW
Junior Member
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15 |
Gosh Darnit!!!! This imo is the MOST FRUSTRATING thing that officials do! In this case lost Nick Haug the match! The kid was not flailing on his back, all over the place, he was steady on his back. With that being said, as an official if you swipe twice, one plus one is two!!!!! MEANING TWO SECONDS FOR TWO BACK POINTS!!! Some may argue it was a fast count or quick swipes, but specifically speaking in this match the kid was on his back for a good moment before the referee even had begun counting backs, I think this is an outrage and unfair to Nick Haug as he took the risk in this move to go towards his back and catch the kid. There must be something set in place so officials cannot yank kids purposely/accidently of a state championship. I could understand if it was less important of a match and some rudypoo tournament but, at our state championships. Lets get real, or at least get some technology in there. It is 2014.... come on now
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: AndrewFTW]
#227003
03/04/14 04:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Gosh Darnit!!!! This imo is the MOST FRUSTRATING thing that officials do! In this case lost Nick Haug the match! The kid was not flailing on his back, all over the place, he was steady on his back. With that being said, as an official if you swipe twice, one plus one is two!!!!! MEANING TWO SECONDS FOR TWO BACK POINTS!!! Some may argue it was a fast count or quick swipes, but specifically speaking in this match the kid was on his back for a good moment before the referee even had begun counting backs, I think this is an outrage and unfair to Nick Haug as he took the risk in this move to go towards his back and catch the kid. There must be something set in place so officials cannot yank kids purposely/accidently of a state championship. I could understand if it was less important of a match and some rudypoo tournament but, at our state championships. Lets get real, or at least get some technology in there. It is 2014.... come on now He didn't cost Nick anything. He didn't take a risky move, if I understand correctly, he was behind by 3 with seconds left. This was pure desperation. Wrestlers should wrestle as hard in the first 5:50 of the match as they do in the last 10 seconds. Nobody got cheated. The official made a quick call and fixed it, in my opinion the right thing to do. This is a world of Blame, let the kid take responsibility, learn from the loss, and get better.
Last edited by Beeson; 03/04/14 04:41 PM.
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: AndrewFTW]
#227004
03/04/14 04:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3
NickAshpole
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3 |
I've never posted on here but read things occasionally and decided to drop my 2 cents in. I have been officiating for about 12 years now and I have no problem with the call that was made. After watching the video several times I got 2 reversal and only full back count. The other back count was CLOSE!!, but he bridges/moves out of criteria before second count could be fully made. Again its up to official to determine when points should be awarded after the takedown/reversal and their has to be a point of control before you can start counting. Again this official does an excellent job, and I agree with Beeson. Put me down for 2 reversals + 0 back.
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Re: You make the call...
[Re: NickAshpole]
#227009
03/04/14 04:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Officiate the match yourself. Don't watch the official, this is titled you make the call. Watch the wrestlers and give the points decided on how you would call it, not how the official called it. Too many of you are arguing that his arm moved twice, that shouldn't matter, what count do you give and when do you give it?
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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