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 Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: R. Scott Edwards]
#228025
03/13/14 12:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 750
L.Geyer
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Will,
If you are so concerned because we have certain officials that get voted in every year. Maybe you should officiate and see if people vote you in. Also if you are questioning our picks and if they are legitimate, I am sure the results of the votes are tallied, and saved. But honestly I dont see where the state by laws say we or anybody else in the state should have to answer to the Will Cokeley, when he questions us.
Last edited by L.Geyer; 03/13/14 12:02 PM.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Cokeley]
#228077
03/13/14 05:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 108
Kyle O. Roberts
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If everyone wants satellite weigh ins it can be accomodated NEXT year. Simply write up a proposal and email (as well as mail) it to Matt Treaster. You just need to cover all of the details on how it will be done. The schedule has to be consistent, certified official, certified scale, etc. It was NOT defined this year and if you want a state tournament series to be credible you have to have standardization and consistency. That is the only fair way to operate a series. If your proposal is credible and supported by 2/3 of the state body then next year we will have satellite weigh ins for state. We cannot just change the rules at the last minute this year. Sorry.
Edited by Cokeley (07/03/12 08:03 PM)
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Kyle O. Roberts]
#228094
03/13/14 08:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 22
Publius
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Publius]
#228100
03/13/14 09:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 27
ElvisP
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I assume the cut and paste response would be: "We cannot just change the rules at the last minute THIS year. Sorry." (2012)
The by-laws say nothing about just changing the rules at the last minute in 2014.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Kyle O. Roberts]
#228113
03/14/14 12:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89
DannyB
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If everyone wants satellite weigh ins it can be accomodated NEXT year. Simply write up a proposal and email (as well as mail) it to Matt Treaster. You just need to cover all of the details on how it will be done. The schedule has to be consistent, certified official, certified scale, etc. It was NOT defined this year and if you want a state tournament series to be credible you have to have standardization and consistency. That is the only fair way to operate a series. If your proposal is credible and supported by 2/3 of the state body then next year we will have satellite weigh ins for state. We cannot just change the rules at the last minute this year. Sorry.
Edited by Cokeley (07/03/12 08:03 PM)
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Not changing the rules, as Mr. Cokeley has stated, "no where in the By-Laws does it state that we have to weigh in on-site", however it does state that we will have two qualifing tournaments before State. Like you just said, qualifing series have to be standardized and consistant. They are NOT this year (2014)! Remotes will never happen, people are to scared of cheaters. Then you go to seeding meetings, you find kids that are ranked AA (State Placer) and they didn't make it to HS State 2 weeks before that seeding meeting and when you look back at their profile they haven't placed at State.
Make yourself better for the NEXT level
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: DannyB]
#228124
03/14/14 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Packerholic492
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I don't want or want to see satellite weigh ins for the state tournament series. Wrestlers need to show up at the host sites make weight and pass the skin, hair, and nail checks! It's real simple. Just deal with it.
Mark Baldwin
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Packerholic492]
#228127
03/14/14 03:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89
DannyB
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I don't want or want to see satellite weigh ins for the state tournament series. Wrestlers need to show up at the host sites make weight and pass the skin, hair, and nail checks! It's real simple. Just deal with it.
Mark Baldwin But it's ok for 2 districts to skip subs while 2 districts have to qualify at subs. If the State body agrees "no remotes" that's fine, but every district will follow, if the State body agrees "no Subs" that's fine, but atleat Kansas Wrestling will ALL be consistent.
Make yourself better for the NEXT level
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: DannyB]
#228145
03/14/14 02:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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My take on this is similar to Obama, with the stroke of a pen, delaying the implementation of Obamacare. It is the best thing to do (other than throwing the whole thing in the trash), but it hacks me off that he can just change a law passed by congress, without voting on it. But I laugh it off, because it is better that things are delayed.
This new deal with no subs for HS kids is the same thing. It isn't hurting anyone, gives more kids the chance to wrestle, but it is kind of last minute, and I can see why people are upset.
But if someone can tell me who is being hurt by this, I'm all ears. And if my kid wins state in a bracket where the toughest guy wasn't able to participate because of our lack of willingness to open up more opportunities, then it is a shallow win.
It's one thing if a HS kid doesn't want to wrestle the kids series, but it is another if he wants to, but also wants to represent Team Kansas at the RMN. I would have loved for my son to have been able to do both the last few years, but we made a choice, because we had to make a choice. Having both options available is better for everyone IMO.
The other thing I hope this does is, by giving the HS kids another week to enter (actually 2 weeks) they might start getting the bug to wrestle again. A lot of them are worn out mentally and physically after the HS season, so when you give them 4 days to enter subs, a lot of them say "I'm sick of it" and don't enter. Maybe more of them will wrestle with this break and a longer entry deadline.
Speaking of which, why don't we just change the deadline for subdistrict entry to 11 am the day of the seeding meeting? YOu will catch any mistakes that morning, just like you can make changes now at the seeding meeting.
My two cents worth.
Last edited by doug747; 03/14/14 02:05 PM.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: doug747]
#228155
03/14/14 02:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 911
Mark J Stanley
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Doug, All the points you make are valid and if enough of our membership feels the same way then we can get them voted in.
Why don't we just announce that on Saturday, March 29th all comers are welcome to come to the Expo and toe the line. First man to the center of the mat gets to stay in the center until someone defeats him. At 4pm on Sunday, March 30th whoever is in the center is awarded the plaque naming them toughest dude in Kansas.
No rules on who registers at all! I bet we would sell some tickets for that and I am not sure who is hurt by it. The good that would come of it is every division would be on a full mat and even if we add 6U you are only talking 6 mats we have to set up.
Last edited by Mark J Stanley; 03/14/14 02:46 PM.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: doug747]
#228164
03/14/14 05:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 22
Publius
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But if someone can tell me who is being hurt by this, I'm all ears. How about the 8, 10, 12 or 14&U kid who had to choose between the sub district tournament or RMN. I don't disagree with not requiring the HS division to wrestle subs. But the timing of this decision/ruling and the manner in which it was implemented was HORRIBLE. It automatically drew the attention away from what is good about it and focused all the attention on what's the angle / who is benefiting from it.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Publius]
#228203
03/15/14 01:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Another problem in today's world is people that dramatize and exaggerate to try to sell their stance on an issue...
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: doug747]
#228213
03/15/14 03:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 387
Pelland
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I agree with you Doug that this is a good decision, and luckily for D2 and D3 it was....... buuuuut, what if a select few decided something not so good for your District or even the entire State for that matter. The next time it might be a bone head decision. We have processes and procedures in place to help protect us from people in power making decisions on the fly. This whole topic seems shady to me.
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: doug747]
#228215
03/15/14 04:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89
DannyB
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89 |
My take on this is similar to Obama, with the stroke of a pen, delaying the implementation of Obamacare. It is the best thing to do (other than throwing the whole thing in the trash), but it hacks me off that he can just change a law passed by congress, without voting on it. But I laugh it off, because it is better that things are delayed.
This new deal with no subs for HS kids is the same thing. It isn't hurting anyone, gives more kids the chance to wrestle, but it is kind of last minute, and I can see why people are upset.
But if someone can tell me who is being hurt by this, I'm all ears. And if my kid wins state in a bracket where the toughest guy wasn't able to participate because of our lack of willingness to open up more opportunities, then it is a shallow win.
It's one thing if a HS kid doesn't want to wrestle the kids series, but it is another if he wants to, but also wants to represent Team Kansas at the RMN. I would have loved for my son to have been able to do both the last few years, but we made a choice, because we had to make a choice. Having both options available is better for everyone IMO.
The other thing I hope this does is, by giving the HS kids another week to enter (actually 2 weeks) they might start getting the bug to wrestle again. A lot of them are worn out mentally and physically after the HS season, so when you give them 4 days to enter subs, a lot of them say "I'm sick of it" and don't enter. Maybe more of them will wrestle with this break and a longer entry deadline.
Speaking of which, why don't we just change the deadline for subdistrict entry to 11 am the day of the seeding meeting? YOu will catch any mistakes that morning, just like you can make changes now at the seeding meeting.
My two cents worth. It does need thrown in the trash. Directly after seeding meeting when brackets where posted there where no combined brackets, now there are 3 in our subs. My son's bracket goes from a 6 man to a 4 man RR combined. Your correct, nobody hurt, he still gets 3 matches. I agree with you completely on all your points and am very happy to see that the wrestlers that are going to RMN, still get to wrestle the State series. It will be an interesting number for HS this year vs previous years. It bugs me that 2 dist. are not consistent with the other 2 dist. And the excuses they keep giving for their decision on this matter. "Saving people money". So what about the people that have to drive 2 hrs to subs (no satellite) to weigh in on Fri night yet their kid doesn't wrestle until the afternoon. They have hotel expense now, just sleep in till 11. Of course you guys don't have to worry about this at your subs. I don't give a shit about the boards decision's all I know is my son said he wanted to wrestle in kids club after HS, but I am tired of hearing the BS excuses from the people who made these last minute changes. This change should of been made across Kansas and it's not, keep in mind our executive director wants to be consistent. We "Kansas" have a lot to think about before next season.
Make yourself better for the NEXT level
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: Pelland]
#228231
03/15/14 10:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Posts: 3,066 |
That was part of the point I was making using obamacare as an example. If I personally thought what was happening was going to hurt someone, I wouldn't be so passive about it. (delaying obamacare with the stroke of his pen actually is a good thing, they can delay it for 100 years, and I won't care)
I agree, if it was something that would hurt someone, I would be raising hell. But let's be honest, I don't see anyone trying hurt anyone here. If District 2 decided to give all of our kids 3 lbs allowance, or something like that, obviously, this gives an advantage to a select group.
I don't have my head in the sand, I know it could have been handled better. Sounds like it was attempted, but tabled, for an excuse that didn't make sense. (wanted to get rid of subs for HS, but someone said we can't do that because our numbers are going to be way up this year because USA wrestling offered the $300 flat fee all you can eat USA card buffet for HS teams....)
I'm actually a little jealous that this happened this year, a year after one of my sons could have been with Chief in Colorado.........he and I have had some spirited discussions about taking some of our best kids to Colorado instead of them being at Kids State with the little guys that look up to them..
ANyway, I haven't lost any sleep over it. But make it against the rules for us to tailgate in the parking lot at Topeka, and I'll come unglued!!
Last edited by doug747; 03/15/14 10:02 PM.
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 Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: doug747]
#228252
03/16/14 12:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 89
DannyB
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Posts: 89 |
That was part of the point I was making using obamacare as an example. If I personally thought what was happening was going to hurt someone, I wouldn't be so passive about it. (delaying obamacare with the stroke of his pen actually is a good thing, they can delay it for 100 years, and I won't care)
I agree, if it was something that would hurt someone, I would be raising hell. But let's be honest, I don't see anyone trying hurt anyone here. If District 2 decided to give all of our kids 3 lbs allowance, or something like that, obviously, this gives an advantage to a select group.
I don't have my head in the sand, I know it could have been handled better. Sounds like it was attempted, but tabled, for an excuse that didn't make sense. (wanted to get rid of subs for HS, but someone said we can't do that because our numbers are going to be way up this year because USA wrestling offered the $300 flat fee all you can eat USA card buffet for HS teams....)
I'm actually a little jealous that this happened this year, a year after one of my sons could have been with Chief in Colorado.........he and I have had some spirited discussions about taking some of our best kids to Colorado instead of them being at Kids State with the little guys that look up to them..
ANyway, I haven't lost any sleep over it. But make it against the rules for us to tailgate in the parking lot at Topeka, and I'll come unglued!! I know your head isn't in the sand! The Qualifing series is supposed to be consistent and uniform with each other, even though the District officials have the say of how their subs, and Districts are held, ran, qualifiers are moved forward. Then you have this season. It wasn't handled correctly. I'm sure you are jealous and you should be, your family had to make a decision Colorado or Kansas State Championships, it is great they can do both this season. This could have been voted on by the State body last Nov. (or even before that) not by district reps just before subs. But this is what they decided and one of the excuses was to save parents money by not having to qualify at subs. Excuses and BS, I will tell you what saves money, no I won't nobody wants them. We start our tailgating at subs and then districts. We do this to same money on dining, and with almost everyone loving split sessions, and Friday night weigh ins ONLY, my parents that are lucky enough to drive 120 miles to get to Qualifiers also get to purchase a hotel room, just to get to sleep in untill 11. They are so lucky:) It's not the USA card fees keeping the HS wrestlers out of the room after HS season, it mental, and physical. The kids are tired and want to be done, whoever thought of the $300 USA cards and told us it would bring more kids. Well I will just say "They tried". I bet if the USA cards where free we wouldn't see a 5% increase in HS wrestlers. Cutting subs won't get many more either. My suggestion for you is have another son and he will be able to attend both.
Make yourself better for the NEXT level
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Re: D4 Sub-District Tournament
[Re: DannyB]
#228264
03/16/14 08:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Beeson
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Posts: 2,555 |
He has another son, and pretty decent wrestler. The problem is he isn't that tough. He let a broken collar bone keep him out of competition for a couple months once. I thought Eck's were tougher than that. Doug must be getting soft in his old age. 
Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
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