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Why kids LOSE!! #232900 01/17/15 11:56 PM
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Beeson Offline OP
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While at The Newton Tournament of Champions this weekend, I sat mat side against the bleachers for most of the tournament. From this vantage point, I was able to see every match, I was able to evaluate the officials, and able to hear most all of the coaches plead their cases for "bad calls". As I sat there, many coaches, officials, and wrestlers would come sit down and discuss matches, possible match ups, calls, the good ole days, and basic wrestling conversation.

As I sat there, I was impressed with the officials. I truly believe this was a very good crew. I asked several wrestlers what they thought of the officiating. I had a couple say that it was the worse officiating they had seen in quite awhile. These are 14 and 17 year old kids, they are hearing this from somewhere. I asked several of the wrestlers to show me a bad call in a match that they did not have a wrestler in. Guess what? They thought the officiating was good as long as they did not have a wrestler involved.

High School Coaches, You Are The Problem! I sat and watched you beg for points that were not there. Complain about points that were obvious. Complain about "illegal holds", "stalling", "time issues" and any other little bull crap argument that could be an excuse as to why your wrestler lost. Coaches, you are giving kids excuses. You blame the Officials way too much. Unfortunately, your wrestlers are picking up your attitudes and blaming the officials instead of looking at what they need to work on to get better. Officials can not screw every kid in every match, nor do they want to.

Teach these young men responsibility!! Teach them to be respectful of the officials, not blame the officials.

Officials, You have a very tough job. I thought you all did a wonderful job at Newton this weekend, even when I didn't agree with your calls (usually during Jake's matches). I can tell you this, not one time did I or Jake blame you for him losing a match. Fortunately, we know what we need to work on, because it wasn't the official that lost the match for us. I feel sorry for those who lost and think it was the officials fault. Those wrestlers will continue to lose. Which brings me to the original subject, Wrestlers lose because it is not their fault, it is the officials.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Beeson] #232903 01/18/15 03:01 AM
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smokeycabin Offline
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I think it was the darn headgear in most cases. I saw head gear thrown, kicked, squeezed tightly, head gear that get talked to in bad words, or the singlet was on to tight (that is when the wrestler quickly pull the straps down as he marches off the mat), - take control of the match and never let the official have any doubt, be nice to your head gear, shirt, shorts and any other objects that are in the your corner, as your coach hands you items as you march off the mat. I hate to say it, but most of the scoring or lack of scoring is the wrestlers doing.



Last edited by smokeycabin; 01/18/15 03:09 AM.
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: smokeycabin] #232910 01/18/15 03:29 PM
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Spexy Offline
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Not sure who the authority is on this issue, but here's what I see and saw this weekend at the Bobcat Classic.

Bad calls are going to be made. Officials are human and not perfect. It's the coaches job to argue a call or plead his case. If a coach is content with a "bad" call and does nothing, then as I see it, the official sees it as he made the "right" call. Sometimes it gets over turned sometimes it doesn't.

I don't see it as coaches being the problem. Bad calls are bad calls in ANY sport! Maybe we should give the coaches a "red" flag like the NFL, and they could throw it out, go to the table, review vidieo, and wait for the outcome. Instead of using the words, "Judgement" call. Too many use those words to cover themselves on a "bad" call. Lol.

On a positive note, I agree. It's the wrestlers responsibility to determine each match and not leave it in the hands of the official. Score points, stay active, and let your wrestling do the talking.

Saw lots of close gut wrenching overtime matches this weekend. "Bad" calls were made as well as "good" calls. It's the nature of our fast paced, high stressed, all out warrior, sport. Blame is in the eyes of the beholder. And NOBODY, can change that.

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Spexy] #232912 01/18/15 05:20 PM
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thorgan Offline
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At the Bobcat, it looked to me like kids were blaming the doors as they slammed them open while sprinting off the mat. Honestly, if you slam the door into one of my loved ones, losing your next match will be the least of your concerns. I see kids do this after wins also. Coaches, we preach post-match as much as the rest but not at the expense of endangering someone, talk to your guys. And tourney directors, prop the doors:) good luck to all as we prep for the stretch run!

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: thorgan] #232914 01/18/15 06:07 PM
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Spexy Offline
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Thorgan,
Saw it as well. Mostly from same team. Agree prop doors open. But why run off slamming open a door, not knowing what's on the other side? Sportsmanship has a lot to be determined with some teams/wrestlers. Win with pride, lose with dignity.

And this is for Chad. Give them a hug!! Lol.

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Spexy] #232915 01/18/15 06:15 PM
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Kit Harris Offline
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Very good point thorgan, well said

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Spexy] #232916 01/18/15 06:53 PM
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Beeson Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Spexy
Not sure who the authority is on this issue, but here's what I see and saw this weekend at the Bobcat Classic.

Bad calls are going to be made. Officials are human and not perfect. It's the coaches job to argue a call or plead his case. If a coach is content with a "bad" call and does nothing, then as I see it, the official sees it as he made the "right" call. Sometimes it gets over turned sometimes it doesn't.

I don't see it as coaches being the problem. Bad calls are bad calls in ANY sport! Maybe we should give the coaches a "red" flag like the NFL, and they could throw it out, go to the table, review vidieo, and wait for the outcome. Instead of using the words, "Judgement" call. Too many use those words to cover themselves on a "bad" call. Lol.

On a positive note, I agree. It's the wrestlers responsibility to determine each match and not leave it in the hands of the official. Score points, stay active, and let your wrestling do the talking.

Saw lots of close gut wrenching overtime matches this weekend. "Bad" calls were made as well as "good" calls. It's the nature of our fast paced, high stressed, all out warrior, sport. Blame is in the eyes of the beholder. And NOBODY, can change that.


I have no problem with a coach arguing a legitimate concern. My problem was with coaches begging for points that were obviously not there.

On a side note, I saw a coach in Oklahoma fix the problem of throwing headgear. A kid threw his headgear after the match. During the next break, this wrestler would throw his headgear from one end of the mat to the other, run to pick it up and then throw it to the other end of the mat where he would repeat the process. He did this for one hour. I can't say for a surety, but I'll bet this wrestler never threw his headgear again.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Beeson] #232917 01/18/15 07:14 PM
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RJW1 Offline
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I thought the officiating at Newton was good. We were on the wrong side of a couple of close calls and on the right side of a couple of others. An official certainly did not determine the outcome of any of our matches! The officiating is actually pretty good most everywhere we go throughout the season.


Rick Williams
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Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: RJW1] #232918 01/18/15 07:21 PM
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PatrickCavanaugh Offline
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My son lost twice at the bobcat. BOTH times the other kid scored more points. I thought that was some b.s.


Patrick Cavanaugh
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Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: PatrickCavanaugh] #232919 01/18/15 07:26 PM
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Hossus Offline
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Spexy,

Noted that same odd childish behavior at the Derby Tournament as well. Guessing someone will end up DQ'd from a tournament or for the season when someone else gets hurt over a tantrum like that.


Fortune assists the daring.
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Hossus] #232924 01/18/15 08:13 PM
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jamesrenfro Offline
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Nice post Mr Beeson. Very interesting and accurate perspective.


TCOB
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: jamesrenfro] #232925 01/18/15 08:25 PM
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Jeremy Molloy Offline
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Beeson that is great can't wait till next time one of our kids throws his headgear will be a good time. As far as kids running out and pushing open doors I have no problem with. tourny directors should know this will happen and prop doors open. Kids do need to vent and leaving the wrestling area and finding a place alone is what most of us have been told our whole life since we started this sport.


Jeremy Molloy
Derby Wrestling
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Jeremy Molloy] #232926 01/18/15 09:21 PM
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Spexy Offline
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Now this is a great post.
No B.S., we ALL see what this sport takes.

Patrick, sorry the other kids scored more points, but it happens. Lol

Chad, throwing headgear, love the post.
Maybe implement hiding the headgear after being thrown. They will look even more worried about finding it, than loosing the match. Can't wrestle without it.

Hossus,
Same team at Derby as Bobcat. And agree.

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: PatrickCavanaugh] #232931 01/18/15 10:29 PM
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ReDPloyd Offline
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Originally Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh
My son lost twice at the bobcat. BOTH times the other kid scored more points. I thought that was some b.s.

Good one PC.


Lee Girard
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: ReDPloyd] #232938 01/19/15 01:09 AM
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D Kretzer Offline
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I agree with jamesrenfeo , interesting post.

In my opinion children act like children regardless of how old they are. That applies to coaches, wrestlers and parents.

You weren't the only one observing Chad. I was interested in watching you as well...as your son wrestled a tough match in the consolation bracket. There were tough calls made in the match and some of them that when against your son. I'm happy to say that you and your some both qualify as adults. Well done my friend.



Coach Kretzer
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Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: D Kretzer] #232940 01/19/15 04:22 AM
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Allie Offline
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My son won one of his matches at the Bobcat Classic in overtime. His opponent didn't bother to wait for any handshake or anything...that singlet must've been squeezing the life out of him and the door was at fault too... as he sprinted out of the gym as fast as was humanly possible.
Guess what happened? He was disqualified and helped his team lose some points. He was a good wrestler but had very bad sportsmanship.

Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Allie] #232977 01/20/15 03:00 PM
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J. Dale Offline
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Nice post Chad. Just kind of curious about something. How can you justify putting video on each match if you can't justify randomly testing for HGH or steroids? Just kind of odd where priorities sometimes seem to be.


Well you're just a special kind of stupid aren't you?
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: J. Dale] #232980 01/20/15 04:38 PM
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Beeson Offline OP
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I have a hard time following your question. Televising the finals is GOOD for the sport. I have no idea why we should have to justify doing something that is good for the sport. I see absolutely no downfall to promoting the sport and allowing as many people as possibe to watch the finals. Video and HGH/Steroids are two totally different subjects.

As far as HGH and Steroids are concerned. Steroids are obviously wrong. I can say that because they are illegal. I would love for athletes to be randomly tested, but let's not just stop at Steroids, lets test for every illegal drug. It comes down to a money factor with drug testing, plain and simple it just cost too much. Then parents are going to ask for another test because obviously the first one was tainted. It's too much of a hassle. HGH can be prescribed by a doctor. If the doctor prescribes the drug there is nothing else that can be done. In college they tested all of the National Finalists, I think it would be great if we would at least test all of our State Finalists, 112 test is still alot of money.

Ok, I'm sure this thread will probably be hi-jacked, but at least it was mine to hi-jack. smile


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Why kids LOSE!! [Re: Beeson] #232981 01/20/15 04:49 PM
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J. Dale Offline
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State owns 3 casinos so ANYTHING related to education should be first to our state, whether it's class, sports, band, or debate. We shouldn't be having this BS every year about state school budgets. As for a "second" test. If that's the case then the parent should pay, if it comes up negative they are compensated if it's positive you're SOL. I totally agree that ALL drugs should be tested for. As for being prescribed, you should be willing to submit to testing when you sign the participation agreement because contrary to the current beliefs in our society, things like sports are a privilege not a right. To my knowledge it's illegal in NCAA to be on HGH. Not for sure but have heard it before from a couple of NCAA and NJCAA coaches. If someone thinks this is wrong then are they saying that KSHSAA is more knowledgeable than the NCAA or Olympics?


Well you're just a special kind of stupid aren't you?

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