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Too many opens #233729 02/13/15 08:21 PM
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ElvisP Offline OP
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I have seen an unusually high number of forfeits in recent duals around the state. It becomes frustrating when highly anticipated dual matches turn into "opens", especially when competition points have been budgeted for the event.

Why so many no-shows?

Re: Too many opens [Re: ElvisP] #233732 02/14/15 12:09 AM
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Spexy Offline
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Not sure what you mean by "budgeted"?
Opens will happen at every dual. Teams may not have a wrestler at that weight or unforeseen things happen. Injuries, sickness, or couldn't make weight, ALL come into play. It happens.

Re: Too many opens [Re: Spexy] #233733 02/14/15 01:23 AM
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hotrodder54 Offline
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Lots of unforeseen circumstances, Late season injuries people trying to stay healthy for regional and state. IDK about budgeted? Sometime teams take the forfeits to protect records for strategic regional seeding. Wouldn't think weight would come into play this late. Also heard of some eligibility issues

Last edited by hotrodder54; 02/14/15 01:25 AM. Reason: i'm dumb

Jon Trowbridge
Ive never had the fear of getting beat thats how most people lose.
Re: Too many opens [Re: Spexy] #233734 02/14/15 01:23 AM
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Or maybe one wrestler has the advantage going into Regionals and they don't want to lose and get a lower seed. I think if a wrestler does not show up for a match between two ranked opponents, they should have a doctors note for the absence or it should count as a loss. Maybe then wrestlers will quit dodging competition to save a seed.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Too many opens [Re: hotrodder54] #233735 02/14/15 01:24 AM
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Beeson Offline
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Originally Posted By: hotrodder54
Lots of unforeseen circumstances, Late season injuries people trying to stay healthy for regionals and state. IDK about budgeted? Sometime teams take the forfeits to protect records for strategic regional seeding. Wouldn't think weight would come into play this late


Great Minds think alike. wink


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Too many opens [Re: Beeson] #233739 02/14/15 04:09 AM
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ElvisP Offline OP
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Perhaps "budgeted" is a confusing term. What I mean is there is a finite number of opportunities to wrestle each season. If a wrestler sits out an early season dual in anticipation of facing a ranked opponent later in the season, and then the opponent does not show,the opportunity to wrestle is gone. That competition point has been wasted. I think Beeson's view is interesting.

Re: Too many opens [Re: Beeson] #233771 02/16/15 06:07 AM
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Eventually you will have to beat the good wrestlers. I think losing to a ranked kid in the season is not the worst thing that can happen. Not wrestling the good kids to "save your seed" is kind of cowardly, of course that is just my opinion.

Re: Too many opens [Re: Beeson] #233789 02/16/15 08:23 PM
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Do you have an examples of this happening?


The older I get the better I was!
Re: Too many opens [Re: back in the day] #233798 02/17/15 10:11 AM
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Beeson Offline
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I really don't want to call kids out, because ultimately this is a coaching decision. The wrestlers may have wanted to go out and were not allowed to or maybe the coaches are teaching them that this is acceptable strategy.

I said I don't want to call the kids out, but coaches are free game. Goddard coaching staff and Maize South coaching staff are both guilty of this. There may be others but these are the two that stick out to me. I'm sure excuses will be a coming, but without a doctors note, it is still just an excuse and how I see it.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Too many opens [Re: Beeson] #233801 02/17/15 01:41 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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Rule 10 coaches...
I love all wrestling coaches but many, many head coaches are Rule 10. Wrestling needs ambassadors and marketers in the hallways. We need to draw in the lost freshmen that could be made into state placers. It is DIFFICULT for a rule 10 coach to forge relationships with students he never sees.


Will Cokeley
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Re: Too many opens [Re: Cokeley] #233802 02/17/15 01:56 PM
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hotrodder54 Offline
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What's a rule 10 coach. I've never heard that term before


Jon Trowbridge
Ive never had the fear of getting beat thats how most people lose.
Re: Too many opens [Re: hotrodder54] #233804 02/17/15 02:43 PM
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Teamroper Offline
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Originally Posted By: hotrodder54
What's a rule 10 coach. I've never heard that term before


A non teacher coach


Tracy Peterson
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Re: Too many opens [Re: Cokeley] #233836 02/18/15 03:16 AM
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To be clear, I think we MUST have rule 10 coaches and I am thankful for all of them. I just think that it handicaps your ability to fill your team when you are not in the hallways of your school. A good assistant can fill this void many times but it is tough!

Good luck to all coaches and wrestlers this weekend!


Will Cokeley
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Re: Too many opens [Re: Cokeley] #233872 02/19/15 12:57 PM
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This past week-end, at our GWAL League tournament, us coaches implemented a rule as far as the tournament goes. You can't put a kid in the J.V. League Tournament unless you have a kid in the Varsity Place. Too many times we had full 12 man J.V. brackets while the varsity tournament would have 4-5 man brackets (FOR A LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIPS). Coaches believed that putting their kids in the easier tournament was going to make them successful in the future or they did not want to discourage them if they went 0-2.

I was a huge proponent of this rule change and loved it. Every bracket but 1 I believe had at least 8 kids in it at the varsity level. If I remember right, 1 bracket had 7 kids. The J.V. Tournament was a true J.V. and not varsity kids wrestling down because they were 3-15 on the year at the varsity level. It was good for everyone and I can't imagine there was one kid this week-end who wrestled varsity that regrets it.

I believe we should have the same rule with duals but it would be hard to implement. I spent all year doing everything I could to not have any opens in duals. I had to early because my lone 106 pounder was hurt until January and did not make weight once. However, I would move guys up and put J.V. guys in the varsity dual so when the paper came out with results the next day, there were as few as opens at possible.

If they are the best in the room, they can wrestle varsity. I am not saying you can't also put them in J.V. tournaments, but when you need to fill a line-up.... You put guys in at all cost.

I don't know about guys dodging competition to get a regional seed. It is something I could not even fathom doing. Kids get hurt, sick, skin diseases, family members die, grades might not be up to par, etc. The life of a high school coach is much harder than anyone can imagine. I wish I would have started a book 12 years ago called "The Excuses of why I can't practice or compete". I have heard some doosy's. I am not saying dodging does not take place. But I can only fix what I do and roll with it. I can't fix others choices.....

As far as doctors notes for not competing. I love me some Beason... but that is so far fetched I don't know what to think. I pray I can always put my best line-up out. However, if I can't for some reason beyond my control, I pray I don't have to fill out a form or get a doctors excuse every time! Kids are kids... parents are worse than kids at times... a lot is out of our control. Again, i can only control my mindset and hope it carries over to theirs and others.

I went all over the place in this post... but have fun with it.

Re: Too many opens [Re: M.Church_AD] #233932 02/21/15 05:14 AM
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Pat Kissane Offline
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Beeson,

I've never met you but based on your comment on this thread, I would. My name is Pat Kissane, I'm certain I'll be at state next week. Please search me out and explain your comment about Maize South! Im certain I have no Beesion love!

Re: Too many opens [Re: Pat Kissane] #233934 02/21/15 11:01 AM
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Beeson Offline
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I would be happy to introduce myself to you. You dont have any Beeson love because you haven't met me. wink


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary

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