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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235546 03/25/15 04:01 AM
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Harry L. LaMar Offline
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Changing kshsaa rules is very difficult and there is only one way to do it. It has been done many times my our peers throughout the years. It is ardoius and painstakingly slow.
1. Coach convince their a.d a rule needs changed.
2. Coaches talks to all ad s in their league, gets approval, and writes a proposal letter to the kshsaa and to the executive board
3. Coaches continue to add leagues to Contact leagues until you have a majority
4. Kwca needs to be on board with a similar proposal
All this needs to happen in accordance to the kshsaa calender of sports planning, meet their deadlines.
5 have the coach and ad or league president , schedule a meeting with mussel man and lentz to present the proposals
6. Schedule a meeting with the executive board
7. Have coaches and leagues contact every executive board member to explain why the merits of the change and how it affects the student athlete and school
(Few executive board members true oh understand wrestling)
Follow that process you will see change. Miss one step you will not. Kshsaa listens to administrators. Coaches must convince administrators coaches admin and league presidents must pack the meeting professionally.

Raise your hand and start the process!!!

1. Coaches are educators and should be able to educate when any student athlete wants help!
2. 5 match rule in hs
etc.
And that is what I know about that !!!


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235547 03/25/15 04:06 AM
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Vandeventon I want to be like you when I grow up. You are the best that has ever been. I might even go as far as saying mvp of the jv!!!!!


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235548 03/25/15 04:26 AM
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Ok last rant. I bet another 50 push ups if somebody can show me where Usawks officials are responsible to enforce kshsaa rule infractions that happen outside of the hs season. In a rulebook, casebook or kshsaa manual . When refereeing a Usawks meet you do not represent kshsaa in any way shape or form.
Referee,s like anybody else, parents coaches kids, has a right to turn in rule breakers, but not a responsibility,. the only folks charged with that RESPONSIBILITY are the administrators. The coaches are charged with knowing the rules. And are risking way to much to break them. I.e penalizing a kid. Ok I'm going to practice push ups now , Vandeventon, the distinguished mvp the jv would be proud of me!!


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235561 03/25/15 12:16 PM
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jeremy sekavec Offline
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Actually Harry, if you are a usakws and a kshsaa official you are required to report any violations you witness. As long as you carry a kshsaa certification you represent kshsaa. It was not that long ago, like four years, that the head dodge city football coach was fired for running practices in the morning in the off season.
I think rule could be tweeked but it is there for a reason. I remember when the rule was put into place and why. Heck, my assistant football was not even allowed to play catch with me and his son because that can be considered a violation. Coaches were running practices basically year round in many sports. Kshsaa stepped in and put the rule in place to protect the kids. It must of had merit otherwise it would not have past the vote.
Sadly, the coach is being punished through the kids. The coach loses them for the year but the kid is the one losing the chance at a state title.
Sorry i just do not think its worth it.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: jeremy sekavec] #235570 03/25/15 03:30 PM
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KSHSAA stepped in and put the rule in place to protect the kids. Yeah right.
Did all of the administrators ask for the rule to be put in place? Typical of govt. Make and rule without gathering any input other than from a few other govt officials, or one parent that didn't want to make the commitment to a program, then make it painstakingly hard to ever change it.......

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: doug747] #235579 03/25/15 04:32 PM
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Harry L. LaMar Offline
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Jeremy I am certainly not advocating cheating!!!! Let the coaches coach, officials officiate, wrestlers wrestle, fans cheer , and the administrators do their jobs! What a concept!!!
But I am still betting the push ups where you cannot show me that interpretation from kshsaa. Officials are told every post season to never offer kshsaa interpretations because kshsaa does not want the liability of officials speaking on their behalf. Kshsaa officials have jurisdiction from when they show up at at meet until they sign the scorebook at the end of the meet. That jurisdiction certainly does not extend into the spring and summer. And like I said earlier anybody can report an infraction but only admin are required to. I have been to many executive board meetings and stuck my neck out too many times to help kids. In other words I know way too much useless information about kshsaa rules and policies.


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235580 03/25/15 04:53 PM
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I would not trust any interpretation of any rule from anyone including Gary Musselman.

Last edited by Travis Phippen; 03/25/15 05:02 PM. Reason: tact
Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Travis Phippen] #235628 03/26/15 04:19 PM
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For what it's worth.. Our AD emailed Mark Lentz about this and his response was "High School coaches could coach 8th graders up until they are promoted."

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Lowe94] #235629 03/26/15 05:09 PM
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Travis Phippen Offline
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Emails from KSHSAA or any of its Executive Directors, especially Gary Mussleman, giving interpretation of rules means absolutely nothing.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Travis Phippen] #235638 03/26/15 09:14 PM
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Really need a like button! Musselman and Lentz! All about CYA.


Patrick Cavanaugh
785-249-3440
Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: PatrickCavanaugh] #235665 03/27/15 04:11 AM
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Harry L. LaMar Offline
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Tyler I hope you are correct! But I would certainly have in writing from Kshsaa before I sat in the chair!!


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235671 03/27/15 12:43 PM
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Travis Phippen Offline
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Harry, I wish having something in writing from them was valid, but trust me. Gary Musselman himself can interpret a rule and then confirm his interpretation in a second email and still retract everything he said. And unfortunately the Executive Board are sheep and will not hold Musselman or any of his staff for giving an incorrect interpretation. Musselman can squirm his way out of anything he writes. i.e. saying well no rule was broken, but the spirit of the rule was.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Travis Phippen] #235674 03/27/15 01:46 PM
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Sounds like normal GOV to me.People that are in power to long follow no rules for themselves.They can interpret anything any way they would like on that day.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: CWB] #235675 03/27/15 02:36 PM
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crazy stuff isn't it. When i was coaching, sad to say, at times i was the only involved adult in some of the kids lives. I coached football and track as well, not because of my love for those sports, but to maintain contact with the kids i coached on the mat throughout the seasons.

My coaches and i tutored homework sessions before and after practice in and out of season--made sure some of the kids were even fed at times.
Bailed a few out of jail... Hell, i probably broke every rule there was inadvertently about out of season contact.
I know for a fact many of those boys and girls would not even have gone to school if not for the involvement....

It has been years since i had a dog in this fight but it stil infuriates me, especially with the apathetic nature of today...

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: klintdeere] #235679 03/27/15 02:57 PM
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You may have just given one of the best arguments for KSHSAA leaving wrestling coaches alone when they are trying to better the kids. Coaches are NOT just trying to make them better wrestlers. Caring, spending time with, and paying attention to a kid forces that kid to decide if they want to smoke dope and disappoint their coach that is involved with them year round, or if they don't have anyone involved with them, there is no question about that decision, you smoke the dope, it's not like anyone gives a sh*t anyway.......don't know if that was a good analogy or not, but I think you get the picture.

Government only thinks that THEY can help kids. From a desk in a high rise, they can make a difference. Bullsh*t. It is one on one interaction that lets a kid know that what this sport is teaching is not just wrestling.

What kshsaa is basically saying is that if you and a kid want to make themselves better, you can't do that because not all kids do it. The problem is that ALL KIDS CAN DO IT if they get their priorities straight. And if they have coaches that care. If KSHSAA can give me one valid point to this rule, that "saves" our kids from something, I"d like to hear it.......

Last edited by doug747; 03/27/15 02:58 PM.
Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: doug747] #235680 03/27/15 03:29 PM
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Here it is from Musselman himself: Im working in a state that values education and the appropriate role of activities in a proper framework that doesnt cause the tail to wag the dog, he explained.

Not all kids in Kansas are similarly situated, he added. We have kids who have great parental support and the economic ability to do all kind of wonderful opportunities. And thats great. But the key is to find the balance that allows them to do that at the same time you dont disadvantage those who dont.

Its the classic have/have not case. Its part of why schools form an association: to try and level the playing field.

Kids in adolescent years fear one thing over anything else, and thats rejection, Musselman added. They dont want to be cut from a team. To avoid that, some kids say, I wont even bother. They opt out because they know if they dont play travel ball for 80 games all summer, they have no prayer, that coach already has his team decided.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Travis Phippen] #235683 03/27/15 07:23 PM
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Travis there is the problem.What they have done is make it where the ONLY kids that get help have to pay for it.As long as you are paying some one other than the coach it is fine. Well guess what some of us can not pay collage kids to practise with the 7th/8th graders.Most parents don't have the cash to send them to clinics all the time.And if they do have the cash they have trouble finding the time.
Now with a good HS coach they get some of this free.I know my coach did one heck of alot for me.May have saved more times than one.He had a little control over me [where few did].

Klintdeere You nailed it.

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: CWB] #235684 03/27/15 07:41 PM
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Well here is a story on the President of the Executive Board of KSHSAA the Principal of Wichita East getting some great national press for his school:)
Principal forces student with Down syndrome to remove high school letter jacket
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/principa...l-letter-jacket

Imagine the humiliation by this kid "Take off our letter jacket and put on this girls sweatshirt". These are the awesome folks that we have at the top level at KSHSAA on the executive board!

Last edited by Travis Phippen; 03/27/15 08:01 PM. Reason: added info
Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Travis Phippen] #235692 03/28/15 03:35 AM
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Harry L. LaMar Offline
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Phippen, Wow I don't know the story. I do know I almost had a heart attack reading our fearless leaders quotes. Sad, sad, representation. Let's all go out and have a very ordinary day!!! Let's be sure our kids in ks remain very ordinary. Don't play catch with them or teach them how to spell " more better dan hour boarder staytes"
It kind of reminds me of when they showed our governor at the KU WSU basketball game last week, a couple of popular folks.
I do know I want Phippen on my team and in my foxhole!! They don't make them any better than T.P.! Trust me he did not get there the easy way, he earned all of his accolades and respect! Much like almost every other wrestler that has ever touched a mat. Fight the fight, do it properly, and don't let them break you.


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Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids [Re: Harry L. LaMar] #235700 03/29/15 03:44 AM
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What are the rules on wearing a freestyle singlet at the state tournament?

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