Can we please position ourselves to not inspire chuckling when we insist we belong in the discussion of prominent wrestling states and get rid of satellite weigh ins for our freestyle and greco STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS? Please tell me that we are not gonna sit around and make excuses that don't make any sense like "if we don't have satellites it will hurt the numbers" or any other lame apologist crap for doing something other than ending a practice that makes us look like amateurs wanting to sit at the big kids table with the likes of Oklahoma and Iowa. Satellite weigh ins don't boost numbers they just make it easier to cheat

here is a way to help numbers if that is really your concern....dont have it in Hutchinson...I know, the sacrilege, but I'm also pretty sure that the tournament isnt in Hutchinson because that is THE hotbed of Kansas freestyle and greco participation. The location of your state championship tournament shouldnt be based on "that is what we've always done" logic. It SHOULD be based on "Hey, where is the BEST place to have the state freestyle/greco championship?" whatever the answer is to that question, is where you should start having it.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. After reading this I am thoroughly convinced of that. You need to talk to more people who are actually involved and want to help because what you are doing is actually counter productive. It is a proven fact that the satellite weigh-ins have helped boost our numbers for the Freestyle and Greco State Championship. I know why you're upset about the weigh-ins and I understand why you have a personal vendetta against them, but I promise you the satellite weigh-ins are not going away.

there is NO WAY that having a functional Freestyle/Greco state championship is contingent on using satellite weigh ins and I would LOVE to see data, actual data, that somebody has on that. I also, without looking, will guarantee the majority (all?) of our neighboring states don't use satellites for their State freestyle/greco championships. be back with actual #s soon

Oklahoma-no satellites
Nebraska-no satellites
Iowa-no satellites

that's enough for me, are you going to tell me that competitive integrity works different here in KS now? I'm am sure this IS counter productive to someone who just wants to keep doing the same thing even if it's broken. Get back to me with those numbers, otherwise I'm going to side with the REAL wrestling states that surround us and say there is a reason they don't use satellite weigh ins in their STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Last year actually was the first time the numbers went up. So something is working. All you are trying to do is get another tournament in eastern kansas. I agree with Ryne you have no idea what you are talking about

Man this sounds like you are mad for the wrong reasons. A wrestler lied about their weigh ins last summer to win a "triple crown" in Kansas. Well the real triple crown is at Cedar Falls (Folkstyle Nationals) and then in Atlanta, GA (Freestyle and Greco-Roman Nationals) this year. Regardless of what you think Blue, the satellite weigh ins have helped this particular tournament. The evidence is overwhelming in favor of this. I have been involved with this tournament for almost 20 years as a wrestler, coach, referee, and spectator and without question we are going in the right direction. I would venture to say that this is all about an un named kid that must have beat someone that you know for a trophy that they didn't deserve. I bet that the wrestler in question did not go to the national tournament or even Southern Plains where there are shoulder to shoulder weigh ins. We as a Kansas National Team Staff have done our absolute best to make things accessible for our wrestlers. There have been many conflicts with our Freestyle and Greco state tournament over the years (graduation, prom, and other issues) and now those conflicts are worse than ever and unavoidable. One thing that you have not mentioned in your constant attack on our state of wrestling is the fact that the kids circuit (one that your son is a part of) has done satellite weigh ins for years. You are telling me that this is not an issue at that level? I have personally heard stories about kids clubs cheating at this. Benson was absolutely correct with his assessment of our current high school situation, home site weigh ins for regionals is wrong. It is not about the kid who is 5 lbs over and they let him wrestle, he will more than likely not make the weight on Friday night. It is the issue of the kid only being .2 or .4 over and being allowed to wrestle. The last pound is always the hardest at this time of year. If you want to do something about this, stop crying about some un named kid at the freestyle and greco kids state tournament and start going through the proper channels to try and change it. Until then, we as a staff could care less if you are upset or not. Show up, don't show up. The point is at the schoolboy and below level there is nothing to qualify for other than the schoolboy duals team (that most anyone could go to if they wanted to do to lack of numbers for that as well). Most people have the competitive integrity to do the right thing, those who don't have that are people that we don't want involved with our programs...

Enough is enough. If you have an axe to grind then submit a proposal per the bylaws of the USAWKS board. If you think that the board is mishandling things so much then come to Salina next fall and run for an office. I believe EVERY position ran unopposed this past year.

We use them to increase the participation. At the end of the day the wrestler who cheats is the one who loses. If there is no honesty or sanctity in the clubs that host the satellite weigh ins then provide us with some data. Prove to me that someone cheated and it will be handled. Don't get on the forum and try to BULLY everyone. The USAWKS board makes decisions that benefit the greater good of wrestling. We are nearly an all volunteer organization and it gets harder and harder to find volunteers most likely due to the incessant complaining by a very, very small number of the members. I want to believe we have clubs that act in the interest of the integrity of the sport.

Lets move onto something constructive.

Thank you

I am not upset about one kid who did one thing, one time. The kid who did that one thing that one time was an object lesson as to why IN THE 3 STYLES, STATE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES, SPECIFICALLY, it is not ok to have satellite/home site weigh ins BECAUSE, in those cases specifically, it erodes the competitive integrity of the pinnacle competition of the wrestling annual cycle. I am not against satellite weigh ins in all contexts, just the one I mentioned (over and over again) I was of this belief before it was driven home by that object lesson and am of that belief now. I imagine MY logic is the same logic used by our neighbors to the north, south and northeast. Correlation is not causation and until somebody has hard, statistically significant, numbers to show me you are not going to get me to believe that having satellite weigh ins makes more kids show up to the state freestyle and greco tournament--cause it doesn't. It does however lower the status of our state championships in relation to everyone all around us

I am perfectly happy to let everybody keep their heads stuck in sand, Thanks. I retract all my previous contentious, bullying the state is on the right track as the evidence clearly shows.

Just learned that Oklahoma uses satellite weigh-ins for their freestyle and Greco state tournament. Can you show us data that the satellite weigh-in does not improve our numbers? Probably not since you blindly guaranteed that Oklahoma does not use satellite weigh-ins for Freestyle and Greco state, even though they do.

I can also confirm that Missouri, Colorado, and Nebraska use satellite weigh-ins for freestyle and Greco state too. I'm waiting to hear back from my Iowa Central coach to see if they use satellite weigh-ins.

There are 2, and only two, ways the logic works on this one, either:

1. You need satellites to keep the numbers up because the site of the tournament is so remote and ill chosen that satellites are the only way you think people will come (though there is no proof of this) soln: move the tornament.....or

2. You don't need the satellites because the site is as convenient as possible for all (as it should be if numbers are your primary concern) soln: lose the competitive integrity destroying satellites or stop calling it the state championship call it the Kansas Dual Team Qualifier

What you can not do as the governing body... is say your primary interest is in keeping/getting numbers up and hold the tournament in a location that you know runs counter to that so pervasively that you have to compromise the tournament's integrity to get people to come to said location

you see, upon reflection, it really doesn't matter what the other states are doing, just end the hypocrisy in this one.

Have your own tournament. Call it state. Run it the same weekend USAWKS does their's. Don't have satellite weigh-ins. Report your findings later.

You blindly guaranteed the other states were not doing satellite weigh-in, but they are and for the same reasons we do them. You've lost all credibility on this topic.

As I say it really doesn't matter if they do or don't, my initial (brief) investigation yielded no evidence of satellites in the information available at hand, I conducted no personal interviews on the matter and frankly am not convinced that they do use them.
I have seen as much evidence that they do use satellites as I have that using satellites increases participation numbers, that is to say none. Using satellites introduces the taint of possible manipulation for advantage, that POSSIBLE taint, whether or not it actually occurs, should be eliminated in a "championship" event. It is simply the correct thing to do regardless of who else is doing what. I have lost no credibility as this issue is unaffected by whether or not other states do or don't have satellites. I never claimed to do any exhaustive research into the matter, honestly, it consisted of looking at the flyers, for the three states I mentioned, flyer for last year's tournament (which said nothing of satellites strangely) My premise was and is, again, as follows: Satellite weigh ins should not be used for a "championship" wrestling tournament as they introduce the POTENTIAL for cheating into the tournament, this POTENTIAL is able to be eliminated; and as such, should be, by the regulatory body, in an effort to maintain the competitive integrity of the proceedings. PERIOD. Any Questions?

funny this "have your own tournament" thing that I've seen thrown around from time to time on this forum. When you see it used, the context usually indicates that the person saying it thinks "fat chance of that", but I will remind you dear reader that when governance loses touch with its constituency that is usually the spark for change and that there are, very real, other fish in the sea. Careful what you wish for

with us here, less than a week after a number of Kansas wrestlers broke ranks along with some Kansas coaches and competed for other states/teams in an event that was intended to be sanctioned state teams only

This is the equivalent of nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo not the well reasoned counter point I was/have been terminally hoping for