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Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: KsOfficial] #245020 02/27/17 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: KsOfficial
What's reaction time? Don't say a judgement call because coaches hate hearing that. Reaction time is how long it takes me to say "reaction time" in my head. This post wasn't about the kids, or about a call. It was about trying to humiliate and attack two people who have put in A LOT of time and work for Kansas wrestling. I disagree with you on the first call in regulation. I can see exactly where you're coming from however, and that's why I said that call could have went different ways everywhere.

Well I don't want to focus on belittling anyone that's why I kept my post about video review and my opinions on the video.

If you think the reversal happened IMMEDIATELY after the takedown then there was no control beyond reaction time. Plain and simple. The call could not have gone either way. That would make takedowns a judgement call which they are not. The SL wrestler never met the takedown criteria beyond reaction time and therefore should not have been awarded the takedown. Pretty black and white if you ask me.

Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: rccokeley] #245021 02/27/17 02:59 AM
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BTW it was good seeing you today Brady!

Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: rccokeley] #245022 02/27/17 03:05 AM
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You to always good talking to you! Congrats to your brother on the awesome win yesterday as well!

Last edited by KsOfficial; 02/27/17 03:06 AM.


Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245024 02/27/17 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
I was wondering how long it would take for this comment.....

I would have to say that the stalling calls that were made during the match myself personally feel were the right calls. But I also feel there very easily could have been another stalling call that would have put this match into overtime.

The worst thing about this match was not the officiating but the way the coach acted after the match. Being upset and arguing for a call is one thing, but throwing the suit jacket on the floor then going at the official after the offical had left the mat and sat down is crossing the line.


First of all the first stalling call was total B.S. It came withing seconds of the start of the period and almost instantaneously when the top wrestler dropped to a single leg. She, the daughter of the ref who screwed the same wrestler last year, did not even give the top wrestler a chance to work for a return to the mat. It was almost like a bad joke where Mom and Daughter sat around the dinner table the night before and talked about robbing this poor kid again. I understand the second call where the point was awarded but that should have been the first warning. And then to Warn the opponent for stalling in the third period Who ran the whole time with 46 seconds left and then never over the point was just plain criminal. This was a state championship match let the kids decide it she should have awarded the point and Let It Go in overtime. Who knows who would have won in overtime but at least the wrestlers would have got to decide for themselves.

That's good old Western Kansas officiating towards East Kansas.

Last edited by BigPin22; 02/27/17 03:19 AM.

"Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners." Bill Belicheck
Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: KsOfficial] #245025 02/27/17 03:19 AM
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If you watch the video real closely it looks like reaction time is exactly what was given, the call then was made, and right after a reversal took place. The wrestlers were in the same position for about a 1 Mississippi count and then the call was made (all calls are clearly made after the points have occurred as the fall occurs BEFORE the whistle), and then right when the points were awarded the reversal took place. We could do this all night.. I would like to add this video does no justice at all because all of the control is pointing the opposite direction and nobody can see from the video viewers POV.



Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: KsOfficial] #245026 02/27/17 03:24 AM
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Agreed that another angle or two would be very helpful to the cause. Can anyone help us out?

Re: Video Review For the Refs: Video is Attached [Re: KsOfficial] #245027 02/27/17 03:29 AM
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In the first scoring sequence there was never control by Silver Lake but if you wanted to argue that there was it should have been called way earlier. In my opinion there was not control beyond reaction time. 2 For Riley County. Silver Lake's leg was never in a position of control that didn't leave him still vulnerable and that is why Riley County scores. You can't legitimately call a TD and Reversal in on motion.

They were still scrambling when the two was awarded Silver Lake didn't have control because Riley County was still cradling the leg.

The real problem is the officiating pool. Secondly, knowing that we have a shallow pool we should NOT allow every official to whistle semi and final matches. If a wrestler makes a mistake he loses and is either sent to the backside or is out of the tournament. Officials blow calls and still get treated as equals?? NO WAY! Earn you spot! You are there for the kids. If you are there to be the match or for recognition or because you are trying to be there for X number of years you are there for the wrong reason! This is for the kids who only get four years to compete!

This match was BLOWN. Don't invite these guys back next year.


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Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: BigPin22] #245044 02/27/17 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: BigPin22
Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
I was wondering how long it would take for this comment.....

I would have to say that the stalling calls that were made during the match myself personally feel were the right calls. But I also feel there very easily could have been another stalling call that would have put this match into overtime.

The worst thing about this match was not the officiating but the way the coach acted after the match. Being upset and arguing for a call is one thing, but throwing the suit jacket on the floor then going at the official after the offical had left the mat and sat down is crossing the line.


First of all the first stalling call was total B.S. It came withing seconds of the start of the period and almost instantaneously when the top wrestler dropped to a single leg. She, the daughter of the ref who screwed the same wrestler last year, did not even give the top wrestler a chance to work for a return to the mat. It was almost like a bad joke where Mom and Daughter sat around the dinner table the night before and talked about robbing this poor kid again. I understand the second call where the point was awarded but that should have been the first warning. And then to Warn the opponent for stalling in the third period Who ran the whole time with 46 seconds left and then never over the point was just plain criminal. This was a state championship match let the kids decide it she should have awarded the point and Let It Go in overtime. Who knows who would have won in overtime but at least the wrestlers would have got to decide for themselves.

That's good old Western Kansas officiating towards East Kansas.


The wrestler got dinged for stalling for the exact same reason last year in the semis. Bottom wrestler hits a stand up and top wrestler goes to a high crotch from behind and pushes the wrestler toward the edge of the mat in my eyes that is avoiding returning the wrestler of the mat. The top wrestler has proved for 2yrs at the state tournament now that he can take down most people. Why not cut him and take him back down if he struggles with returning them? I 100% agree there probably should have been another stall call at the end to send it to overtime, as the wrestler that was up by 1 appeared to be blocking with his hands and backing up. Should have been decided in overtime.

As I said before though, even though the match was controversial it gave no right for the coach to attack the official in the manner be did. He should have consequences from his school as well as the state.

And your comment about Western Kansas against Eastern is a joke. I believe the lead official lives in Lawrence.

And once again you brought up last year's match in the semis. Yes the official came off of the side of the mat to change the situation, but if you look at the rules she changed it to the right situation as the officials on the mat were incorrect. From what I am hearing from you is. That you are mad because you feel you got screwed in that match last year, due the right position being utilized, but you would have rather screwed the other wrestler with the incorrect starting position.

Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245046 02/27/17 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
Originally Posted By: BigPin22
Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
I was wondering how long it would take for this comment.....

I would have to say that the stalling calls that were made during the match myself personally feel were the right calls. But I also feel there very easily could have been another stalling call that would have put this match into overtime.

The worst thing about this match was not the officiating but the way the coach acted after the match. Being upset and arguing for a call is one thing, but throwing the suit jacket on the floor then going at the official after the offical had left the mat and sat down is crossing the line.


First of all the first stalling call was total B.S. It came withing seconds of the start of the period and almost instantaneously when the top wrestler dropped to a single leg. She, the daughter of the ref who screwed the same wrestler last year, did not even give the top wrestler a chance to work for a return to the mat. It was almost like a bad joke where Mom and Daughter sat around the dinner table the night before and talked about robbing this poor kid again. I understand the second call where the point was awarded but that should have been the first warning. And then to Warn the opponent for stalling in the third period Who ran the whole time with 46 seconds left and then never over the point was just plain criminal. This was a state championship match let the kids decide it she should have awarded the point and Let It Go in overtime. Who knows who would have won in overtime but at least the wrestlers would have got to decide for themselves.

That's good old Western Kansas officiating towards East Kansas.


The wrestler got dinged for stalling for the exact same reason last year in the semis. Bottom wrestler hits a stand up and top wrestler goes to a high crotch from behind and pushes the wrestler toward the edge of the mat in my eyes that is avoiding returning the wrestler of the mat. The top wrestler has proved for 2yrs at the state tournament now that he can take down most people. Why not cut him and take him back down if he struggles with returning them? I 100% agree there probably should have been another stall call at the end to send it to overtime, as the wrestler that was up by 1 appeared to be blocking with his hands and backing up. Should have been decided in overtime.

As I said before though, even though the match was controversial it gave no right for the coach to attack the official in the manner be did. He should have consequences from his school as well as the state.

And your comment about Western Kansas against Eastern is a joke. I believe the lead official lives in Lawrence.

And once again you brought up last year's match in the semis. Yes the official came off of the side of the mat to change the situation, but if you look at the rules she changed it to the right situation as the officials on the mat were incorrect. From what I am hearing from you is. That you are mad because you feel you got screwed in that match last year, due the right position being utilized, but you would have rather screwed the other wrestler with the incorrect starting position.



Of course he got screwed last year..everyone knows it! He got screwed again this year by the referees daughter from last year. The first stall warning was within couple of seconds from the starting position this year. She hit him with it as soon as he cut back for a single leg. She did not give him one second to work for a takedown, NOT ONE SECOND! She was undoubtedly waiting for him to do it so she could ding him! I can post the video too, but it's a waste of my time.

Ask any East Kansas school out there how they feel about Western Ks. officiating towards them... It's not a secret!

How many times have you seen a referee come in from the sideline that was not involved in the match intervene with TWO officials that were assigned to the match??????? I'm guessing NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by BigPin22; 02/27/17 02:24 PM.

"Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners." Bill Belicheck
Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: BigPin22] #245049 02/27/17 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: BigPin22
Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
Originally Posted By: BigPin22
Originally Posted By: L.Geyer
I was wondering how long it would take for this comment.....

I would have to say that the stalling calls that were made during the match myself personally feel were the right calls. But I also feel there very easily could have been another stalling call that would have put this match into overtime.

The worst thing about this match was not the officiating but the way the coach acted after the match. Being upset and arguing for a call is one thing, but throwing the suit jacket on the floor then going at the official after the offical had left the mat and sat down is crossing the line.


First of all the first stalling call was total B.S. It came withing seconds of the start of the period and almost instantaneously when the top wrestler dropped to a single leg. She, the daughter of the ref who screwed the same wrestler last year, did not even give the top wrestler a chance to work for a return to the mat. It was almost like a bad joke where Mom and Daughter sat around the dinner table the night before and talked about robbing this poor kid again. I understand the second call where the point was awarded but that should have been the first warning. And then to Warn the opponent for stalling in the third period Who ran the whole time with 46 seconds left and then never over the point was just plain criminal. This was a state championship match let the kids decide it she should have awarded the point and Let It Go in overtime. Who knows who would have won in overtime but at least the wrestlers would have got to decide for themselves.

That's good old Western Kansas officiating towards East Kansas.


The wrestler got dinged for stalling for the exact same reason last year in the semis. Bottom wrestler hits a stand up and top wrestler goes to a high crotch from behind and pushes the wrestler toward the edge of the mat in my eyes that is avoiding returning the wrestler of the mat. The top wrestler has proved for 2yrs at the state tournament now that he can take down most people. Why not cut him and take him back down if he struggles with returning them? I 100% agree there probably should have been another stall call at the end to send it to overtime, as the wrestler that was up by 1 appeared to be blocking with his hands and backing up. Should have been decided in overtime.

As I said before though, even though the match was controversial it gave no right for the coach to attack the official in the manner be did. He should have consequences from his school as well as the state.

And your comment about Western Kansas against Eastern is a joke. I believe the lead official lives in Lawrence.

And once again you brought up last year's match in the semis. Yes the official came off of the side of the mat to change the situation, but if you look at the rules she changed it to the right situation as the officials on the mat were incorrect. From what I am hearing from you is. That you are mad because you feel you got screwed in that match last year, due the right position being utilized, but you would have rather screwed the other wrestler with the incorrect starting position.



Of course he got screwed last year..everyone knows it! He got screwed again this year by the referees daughter from last year. The first stall warning was within couple of seconds from the starting position this year. She hit him with it as soon as he cut back for a single leg. She did not give him one second to work for a takedown, NOT ONE SECOND! She was undoubtedly waiting for him to do it so she could ding him! I can post the video too, but it's a waste of my time.

Ask any East Kansas school out there how they feel about Western Ks. officiating towards them... It's not a secret!

How many times have you seen a referee come in from the sideline that was not involved in the match intervene with TWO officials that were assigned to the match??????? I'm guessing NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!


I actually saw a guy who wasn't in stripes tell an assistant referee to tell the main referee to wipe a caution he had given because the wrestler jumped due to a whistle from another call. This should never happen. It didn't change the match but we should not have former refs(this particular ref is from eastern Kansas and I disagree with a lot of calls he makes) who are not in stripes interjecting themselves. The main ref saw a caution and the assistant ref can't intervene in that situation either. We don't use the assistant ref correctly IMO.

Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: BigPin22] #245050 02/27/17 02:53 PM
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I am not going to get into Eastern vs Western, as everyone is going to have their own opinions. This thread that we are posting on is making sure officials get the rules right. They got it right last year. Yes it was definitely not something you usually see an official coming onto the mat, but they did get it right. If you want to argue that the call was wrong then this is a mute point, as you don't know the rules. If you want to say they targeted your wrestler because he is from Eastern Kansas is absurd. These officials referee 100's and 100's of matches every year. I am guessing they don't sit in the locker room and say. Hey this kid is from Eastern Kansas or Western Kansas let's screw him. If they do that then they need to be run out of the sport.

I would like to hear from some officials on this thread. Do you officiate differently knowing where the wrestler is from?

Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: BigPin22] #245052 02/27/17 02:57 PM
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You guys seem tough to please out West. No wonder the "good officials" stay away from it.

There are so many good young officials who don't get the time of day simply because they look young and it blocks them out of the good ole boy system. It's all politics. If you kiss enough feet, you're in. No matter what your skill level is, as long as you pay the fee and take the test you're in.


Any one who has actually competed has had a questionable call go against them, it happens anywhere and everywhere.

How about monthly reviews?? That would be something that could be compromised. The officials with the highest ranking reviews at the end of the year get to do the big stage. Boom.

Last edited by KsOfficial; 02/27/17 02:57 PM.


Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245053 02/27/17 03:03 PM
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Are you serious? The thought of even thinking that way is blasphemous. We don't wake up in the morning and get ready for the day thinking "how can I screw a kid over today". Hopefully that was sarcasm.



Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: KsOfficial] #245054 02/27/17 03:23 PM
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I only had one problem with an official this weekend. Let me get started by saying that im all for a physical match, but when my wrestler get elbowed 4 times in the mouth, punched once in the jaw, and kneed in the hands all in one match and not one single penalty point was given. To say i was irate in an understatement. He busted my kids lip open on the first elbow and the lead and assistant official were both "not in position" every single time another elbow came in. We ended up losing in the UTB. Then after the match the official tells the two wrestlers that they wrestled a great match, a dirty match but still great. So he saw all the dirty action and still refused to call one single penalty point.


Michael Malay
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Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Coach Malay] #245055 02/27/17 03:27 PM
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Michael I seen that match, and it appeared everyone in the collisum who was watching the match seen the elbows and punches except the officials. I actually posted about it earlier the thread. The bad thing is I seen that same wrestler do some of the same actions later in the tournament, and still not get called on it.

Last edited by L.Geyer; 02/27/17 03:29 PM.
Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245056 02/27/17 03:31 PM
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It was very frustrating. Im very proud of my wrestler for not retaliating. Idk if i would of had as much restraint.


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Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: KsOfficial] #245057 02/27/17 03:35 PM
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I agree that there needs to be some checks and balances in who gets to officiate the big show. And yes it was sarcasm due the fact that Bigpin is accusing his wrestler of getting screwed solely because he is from Eastern Kansas. I asked the question to prove a point that an official does not officiate a match differently based on where the wrestler is from, and if they do they should not be allowed to officiate any longer.

Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245058 02/27/17 03:35 PM
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Now that is a much different argument than a questionable call. Our sole purpose out there is to protect the kids. That should not have happened and I apologize that it did.



Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: L.Geyer] #245059 02/27/17 03:38 PM
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Back to video review, I really don't see a viable option for it. You would need a camera in each corner to try to get the best viewpoint, but even then it could be tough. What about the other 8-10 officials that are waiting for their turn, on all four corners watching and able to get together to overturn or make a call that could be missed by the officials on the mat. Use them for a challenge of a review. Would they overturn each other? Would they stick together and "protect"? I don't feel any official tries to throw a match. They have to make a split second call, and be willing to defend that call. If other officials saw it differently or had the right angle, they could overturn it. Just a thought. Then again, why not have 10 officials on the mat to watch from every angle.

Re: We need Video Review For the Refs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Bassman] #245060 02/27/17 03:41 PM
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KsOfficial the problem is that is was the head official.


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