That is a call that is rarely missed. I have not often witnessed an obvious punch, club to the head, etc. go un-called. In no way am I implying it didn't happen. If it was the head official not calling obvious misconduct then I would recommend informing the VIPs of Kansas wrestling or a board member of KHSAA, because that should not fly. Like I said our sole purpose out there is to protect the kids. It is a rough sport, but there is a clear difference between wrestling with intensity and intentionally trying to cause harm towards an opponent. No matter what the level of competition is.

I agree. Im all for heavy hands and being physical on top but this kid was trying to hurt our wrestler.

There's nothing to argue...Whether it's perceived or real most everyone that's been around Kansas wrestling knows there has always been an East vs. West rift!



I respect your opinion but totally disagree. It's very rare that the second official oversteps the head official in a match, let alone a 3rd official stepping in (unless it the head ref) to restart a triple overtime match in progress is ridiculous to say the least!!

Drives me nuts: Calls different everywhere.

1. Single Legs. Fleeing the Mat.
2. Single Legs. Returning to the Mat.
3. Single Legs. Not crawling up the leg.

1. Kid hits a single leg (Center of circle) (Tree tops it) Kid with leg up hops/dives all the way out of bounds. No fleeing the mat?

2. Kid on bottom hits stand up. Top kid drops to single and pulls kid back to mat (eventually). (How long does he get...) If he is near the crotch how long until its called fleeing the mat? (I've seen it called both ways. Fleeing the mat and Stalling) Top man goes out of bounds....

3. Anywhere on mat. Kid has a single at the ankle and other kid kicks and kicks and drags the kid with he ankle out .... no call. When is it fleeing and when is it stalling?

I saw it happen differently at the 5A/6A State Tournament. It seems its different by style and level. High School, College, Freestyle.

I am not an expert .... so no need to shoot me for discussing. lol

Good point! I will post the video and let you decide if a point should have been awarded in this case.

Below is a link to the stalling call that was made. Keep in mind the the mother of this referee penalized the same wrestler in the semifinals four points for similar reasons.

The penalized wrestler was not ahead in points when the stalling call was made, he was "attempting" to return the opposing wrestler to the mat score points from top. It was obvious and intentional stalling in the 3rd period when the other wrestler was winning and trying to protect his lead on his feet!

Then in the 3rd period the opposing wrestler was leading by 1 point and warned for stalling with just under a minute to go but was never penalized even though the whole crowd screamed for the call.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3DaND2q8DtVdzRUc2dUS05PbTA/view?usp=sharing

All of those are very difficult to call knowing the rules. In a way, I think it happens all too often and officials want to give kids an opportunity, and not ding them the first time it happens. Maybe a change in approach from officials. But then again, if it is called that way, the officials may never hear the end from coaches/fans.

From the video Kid in green gets a reversal. The kid in Yellow hits a stand up. There is approximately 5 seconds before a stall warning is given to the kid in Green for not returning to the mat? (video clock 19/20 seconds to 25 seconds. Kid reshoots at 26 seconds.)

I think that's what happened? I don't know if last year plays into this. However, if I was the coach of the kid who was hit last year. I would have talked to the lead official asking that that referee not be in the match. I would bet that may have solved that part of the angst?

If a kid is making absolutely no attempt to return him to that mat, that is when stalling is called. If we he would immediately went for that re-shot that would show an attempt to return the wrestler, and no stalling call would have been made in that amount of time. There is no time count in that kind of situation it comes down to judgement if the wrestler on top is trying to return him at all. Of course, if he fails to return him so many times then yes that could be called stalling as well, but it will be more than 5 seconds before that stalling call is called.


Stalling is a way to win some times, but not if you have been warned and up 1 point.

Rough ending there she did not hesitate to call it, which the is how it should be called all the time. If stalling was called correctly 24/7 there would not be so much controversy with it.

The problem with calling stalling is if you do it once a certain way you better be calling it that same way all day or you will hear it from everyone. I don't know how she was calling stalling the rest of the day, but to me, that was a good stalling call.

I've only been gone a year, but did Kansas change the way they award State Titles. Win your semifinal and you are awarded a State Title? I thought you had to win your FINALS match to meet that criteria. Joel was in the Nebraska State 126 lb FINAL match. I as a rightfully biased dad thought that a fleeing the mat or stalling point should have been given and taken the match to overtime. It wasn't and the result was a 3-4 loss. I'm not going to sit around complaining, I will pour my heart in to ways to help him overcome situations that he can control to change the outcome. Sunday, following the State Duals this past Saturday, Joel was reffing a local kids tournament. He said he wasn't concerned about coaches or dads throwing fits over possible missed calls. To quote him "Bad calls happen, move on". Any guesses as to where Joel was this morning at 6am? Answer: the weight room. He said that is his main priority to change the results from this past year.
John Ostrom
Burwell, NE

That's the huge issue is that she didn't call it that way all day or even in that match.

She token warned the other kid for stalling on his feet in the 3rd period for protecting his lead and backing out with approximately 45 seconds left in the period but never awarded a point amidst large booing from the crowd!

It's over now and nothing we can do about it. We feel as though he was robbed of a possible State Championship due to inconsistent officiating 2 years in a row!

Moving on!

So I want gonna say anything at first, but some of these comments are absurd. First of all, getting recertified every two weeks as an official is ridiculous. The amount of training we go through every year is quite a bit. I'd like to know personally how many coaches actually open a rulebook every year with all the rule changes that go on. I know several officials personally who ask opinions from other officials after some tight matches whether or not they made the correct call. Nobody is perfect in life, officiating is a very tough job, and mos of the time people don't realize how difficult it is to step into our shoes and make the calls. Some of the spectators and parents don't realize that we as officials volunteer our time every weekend to put back into the sport of wrestling what we've learned throughout our life.

Your school has the full video on facebook not just the piece at the end of the second period you posted. If this was the only bit of wrestling to influence the call I would agree. If you take the whole second period into account I believe this could have been your kids third stalling call. In my opinion, the reason she was so quick and authoritative with it was due to the start of the second period. Every time Johnson would make it to his feet your kid would show no real attempt to return him, followed by dropping to the leg. I do believe there could have been another call against Johnson in the third, but he was very strategic about his mat presence with a re-shot now and then and turning away from the edge so your kid would be the one to go out of bounds first in most instances.

Link to your schools live stream on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/usd247/videos/1336686036390477/

Please Do! and watch how she knowingly and intentionally gave the Norton wrestler a point a millisecond before time ran out in the 2nd period and warned the Norton wrestler in the 3rd period while he continued to stall for way longer than Kester ever did.

Listen to all the boos and the chants of stalling in the third period.

Moral of ANY story where one wrestler is screwed: Don't leave it in the refs hands. Don't let your matches be or get so close that the ref has to interject his/her judgement to decide the match.

Do you know how easy our lives would be if we could make calls just because the crowd yells that you should? Come on now..

Your son should be proud he made it there. That is something to be proud of. Do not dread over what could have been. Congrats on an awesome season!

I think a couple of things are being missed here, for one,the Southeast kid was attempting to return, he was attempting to return the Norton kid to the mat with a single leg or high crotch, when Coach Johnson yelled stalling, less than a second or 2 later, the official awarded a point for stalling to the Norton kid. Secondly, the Norton kid spent the final 30-45 seconds circling away with his arms extended out on the southeast wrestler and butt and feet away to prevent any take down WITHOUT any attempt of offense himself, this is after he too got a caution for stalling, there should have been a point awarded to the Southeast wrestler creating a 4-4 tie, and gone to OT. Now, who knows who would have won, the Norton kid is a great wrestler, so is the Southeast kid, much respect to Coach Johnson but the official was influenced by his coaching. Her and her mother took the decision from the wrestlers hand in back to back years, this shouldn't happen. Once for a kid from Ellis, once from a kid from Norton, both great wrestler's, but the matches should be decided by the kids. That's it, period !

This is not his Dad, this is his Coach. I have helped coach him since he was five years old.

You are right, he should be and is proud. I also know he feels rightfully robbed. He took it like a man and moved on. I've said my peace a am moving on myself!

Thanks

Back to the original topic...
After thinking about it for a couple of days, although our officiating pool is very shallow we still have some higher quality officials at every state tournament. The real culprits for these issues are the head or lead officials who think that we have to be FAIR when assigning matches. The lead official at 321A should have "handicapped" the front side matches (qtrs, semis, and finals) along with blood round and medal matches to put appropriate pairs on the matches. Why would you but the two aforementioned officials together and then follow it up with two of the best officials in the next match???? First off, we need to develop officials and you can do this by putting them on the OUTSIDE while a GOOD official is on the whistle. DO NOT confuse years of experience with ability to officiate. Generally speaking, if you have an official who never wrestled or lets even say never wrestled at state then you are not going to have a very good official (there will be exceptions but they will be rare.) If you wrestled in MS or JV that doesn't mean you understand the movement of a match... plain and simple. NOT EVERY OFFICIAL should workd a semi finals and finals match. THE BEST KIDS IN THE TOURNAMENT DESERVE THE BEST OFFICIALS IN THE TOURNAMENT!!!!! When a wrestler makes a mistake he goes to the backside or home. That should be the same thought process for officials. If we hold them accountable they will work harder. Earn your whistle for the finals, don't just hold your hand out and expect one.

Someone on here mentioned how hard it is to be an official. That is TOTAL BS!!! It is way more political than anything else. You take a test, go to three organized meetings and you are qualified, in KSHSAA's eyes, to be an official. I see Iowa officials working FLK matches from October to the April. Most of our guys are ghosts from March 1 to December 1. Again, we have exceptions. Officials should do it for these reasons in this order. 1. For the kids. 2. Because they love wrestling 3. Because they understand the importance of getting it RIGHT. 4. For compensation.

In closing...We need more former wrestlers to become officials!!!! We need to have outside officials to develop them for the future. We need to have lead officials who are NOT on the mat and who have half a brain about distributing the assignments and a set of balls to tell some of the officials "NO!! You are having a bad weekend, the kids deserve the best and you aren't there this weekend!"