Taking it from the other direction, according to many of the detractors of this thread's premise, any HS freshman, JV or varsity, state qualifier or not, who would enter the 14U division of kids state when a HS division is available, is a medal hunting bum who is seeking out the easiest bracket to wrestle in. So what about that? KS has a system that allows that to happen. The same people who say toughen up 8th grader, it gets you ready for HS!, what would they say to a freshman state champ who entered 14U? The freshman state champ would probably get booed. Why? well everybody knows why and it's a double standard that we allow and encourage with our nonconformist cutoff date. The competition is super sparse all year at local tournaments for the 8th grade 14U kid, combined weight round robin brackets are the norm, then the state tourney comes around and suddenly their bracket is full of freshman that they have never had a chance to wrestle. That doesn't get you ready for high school or any other scenario, it's ambush by design and it is stupid. Also why have we kept the HS division if it's original intention has never even come close to fruition? I'm not sure how it got changed in the first place. Right now we are 2 surveys in and 5+ years of debate and we still can't decide when to have state next year let alone the format. Instead of a complete overhaul, how bout a cutoff date change coupled with a two week earlier state tourney date preceded by a district tournament the week before in all 4 districts? No subs. Seems more sensible than the radical overhaul/splitting of the tournament that is currently on the table

Smokey,
As I remember the discussion and votes, yes D2 supported 6U being added to the state series. I take issue with your statement that "all the other districts opposed". It was primarily the votes from D1 that carried the issue. It was no coincidence that at that time the so-called 6U state was being hosted by a D1 club. My position was, while I supported 6U being added to the state series for a variety of reasons, I felt then and still do, the use of 64 man brackets for a one day tournament for any age group is not good for the sport. That said, I do not believe the promotion of the 6U age group has anything to do with alleged burnout in the sport. I'm not a believer that burnout is an issue but that is probably a subject for another thread.

I would agree with Mr Bluel, High School should wrestle high school division no matter if they are with in age. We wrestled in PA for 3 years and high school is not allowed to wrestle in youth divisions. Kansas needs to start looking at the states that have great wrestling programs and start to emulate them. (PA, IA, OH, OK)

What was the question again? Hahaha...

I've got an 8th grade 14U and a freshman 14U. The 8th grader qualified for state and the freshman did not. The 8th grader beat out a freshman. To me it's like any other division, the bottom end is going to be tougher.
I do like the idea of keeping HS state qualifiers out of the 14U division, but overall I do not see a problem with the current system.

But you can't keep them out that's the point. My advice to any 14U kid that asks me, if the system stays the way it is, would be to go up and wrestle high school division, at least you know what you are going to get.

With everything on track, you can keep the HS qualifiers out. If they get caught entering the 14U division they are disqualified and not allowed to compete at the tournament.

Haven't these kids wrestled each other for years in the same age group? What is the difference now. If you say competition..I know several kids schedules that are tougher than a lot of HS schedules. If they compete in the summer, they will not get the pleasure of saying HS division...if you are a cadet, you are a cadet.

No they haven't actually, of the 4 freshman in my kid's bracket we hadn't seen any of them over 11 years of competition, of course we would have only had the opportunity every other year, but no. And yeah in the summer a cadet is a cadet for Kansas kids in Missouri a cadet is a cadet year round because they use the USA cutoff year round. in Missouri, and elsewhere (everywhere?) freshman aren't allowed to wrestle 14U. it's apples and oranges because KS uses a different cutoff....this is the crux of the issue

At King of the jungle I witnessed a Junior or Senior who won 30 matches in high school wrestle an 8th grader. It was an expedition match to get the older kid a match. The 8th grader lost, but it was a good match and fun to watch.

At Park City They combined 14u 90-100. I watched a 7th & 8th grader beat a freshman who probably wrested varsity.
I like watching those matches.

Should those young freshman be wrestling Seniors in the state series? What does a 14u 90 or 95 pound freshman do?

My son is 14u 85 now as an 8th grader. Haven't had more than 2 sometimes 3 matched at a Tourn all year. If he wrestles high school div next year at 95, I don't see getting match at all in most Tournaments.

Restated yet another way: there is no rationale for nor is it intentional for the 14U division to be any different than 12U, 10U, 8U or 6U divisions, but it is. It is due to Kansas using a non standard cutoff date for NO APPARENT REASON. If the state tournament date is moved this becomes moot anyway I'm just afraid that may never happen. BUT if it is moved the cutoff date NEEDS to be changed or you will have a one year age group for the entire year not just up until the state series.

I have an 8th grader that got beat by a freshman this year and have absolutely no problem with that, in fact there are more people that feel this way than are responding on this thread. Its good competition and gives us something to work for. There is no problem with the way things are going in 14 under and it is a choice for each kid to make when they are a freshman. They should be able to make that choice without adults ridiculing them or telling them they are a joke if their choice is to wrestle 14 under instead of HS. As coaches and parents we do what we think is best for our wrestlers and no one should feel bullied into making a decision they don’t want to make. I guarantee next year when my 8th grader is a freshman and he decides to wrestle 14 under, 0 f***s will be given to what other adults think about it. If he is doing well and decides to wrestle HS then good for him.

Again, for education purposes, Kansas used to use the January 1st cutoff date. We changed it to be more in line with regional national competitions. It is not our fault that USAW chooses to use another date for those purposes. The September date tends to more closely follow the grade that that athlete should be in. As others have stated, the January 1st date disadvantages the same number of youth, just different ones. If you want to use the January 1st date, feel free to participate in FS/GR.

I grew up wrestling in Iowa, moved to Kansas in 2000, then left and spent 3 years coaching youth wrestling in PA, now I am back in Kansas (which I consider home). Can anyone explain to me why Kansas is so different than any (most) other states when it comes to wrestling divisions and timing of State tournament?
Maybe if we looked at other states and how youth wrestling is run, Kansas would get some respect when it comes to wrestling.
The first thing I heard when we moved to PA was you have no clue about wrestling because you came from KS, that's a basketball state.
Re-align the divisions to match states around us, get the High School Kids out of Youth wrestling, and move the state tournament to end of Feb. like most other states.
A lot of kids have to leave Kansas to get the competition they need to get better (they go wrestle in OK, MO, IA)

You might want to check the post in another thread titled "Kids state review committee". Look for the post about the dates of other state's championships.

Doesn't OK use 15U? I know we skipped going to CO this year because they use a 15U and my son is bottom of 14U here.

"High school kids get to practice 5 days a week" Weak argument. Kids Club kids can practice 5 days a week if they want. In fact Kids Club kids can seek out any club/partner they want across the country to get better. There are way more restrictions on high school kids when to opportunities to get better.

When I was an 8th grader, the old man and I knew I would have some stiff high school competition at kids state. So he took me all over the place to get the best possible competition in the country and help prepare me to win a state title against high school competition. At the end of the State Tournament I was at the top of the podium and below me were 3 freshmen who had placed at high school state.

Moral of the story: If you think your competition is out working you then find opportunities that will help push you past your competition.

I've never understood this argument. Why should a 14 year old not be able to wrestle their age division? Because they haven't had the same "opportunities" as others? Sammy Cokeley and Kayne Hutchinson were Fargo all-Americans this summer. Should they have been allowed to wrestle the high school season against kids who didn't get to go to Fargo? Clay Lautt was a cadet world team member. No way he should have been allowed to wrestle against high school kids. And while we're at it, what are Jaden Cox and Kyle Snyder doing wrestling against college level competition?

Well damn, I get it now, we just have to FORCE all freshman to wrestle kids state! after four years of that we will have the best high school wrestlers in the country! Just like.......I don't know, some other state has surely tapped into this magic formula for success right?

and while we're at it here in Kansas let's get rid of the distinction between Juniors and Cadets they all wrestle folkstyle together let's have em all wrestle freestyle and greco together too, why separate them? let's really leverage this Kansas secret formula!