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Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts! [Re: smokeycabin] #246336 04/10/17 01:16 AM
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Lars Lueders Offline
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One thing I always thought was interesting, and could possibly hurt participation numbers, is that there are no "rec leagues or tournaments" in Kansas.

I am defiantly not bashing on USA Wrestling, in any sense of the word, as they do what they have to do for their regulations and do great things for many kids. The things they do for the kids and what they do with Team Kansas are awesome. A lot of states don't have anything like Team Kansas and the opportunities for our kids that participate in Team Kansas stuff are extremely valuable.

However, all tournaments in our state seem to be USA Wrestling Sanctioned Tournaments. I'm mainly talking about your novice type tournaments. Thus parents have to register their kid in advance, weigh in the day before to make a weight, be placed in a weight division, buy a USA card, etc.. I know in Iowa, where I grew up, there are a lot of tournaments that aren't sanctioned by a governing body (AAU there). You would just show up the day of, register, weigh in, and then would be grouped in a 4 man round robin with whoever weighed around your weight. There were no weight classes or anything needed to do ahead of time. I know now there are many tournaments available like this still.

In Iow, If you are a good wrestler or wanted to take things more seriously, you would get an AAU card and attend the AAU sanctioned tournaments. I know we have novice tournaments in KS but those parents still have to do quite a bit of front work to get in to those. I am truly not bashing USA tournaments, as they are good for many kids, but I think that may be a part of the lower retention rates at our younger age groups. I know retention rate is a nation wide problem but you do have to make a decent commitment to compete in our current system, regardless of experience level. The commitment I'm talking about isn't for the kids but rather the commitment the parents have to make. I'm really not saying I have an answer or this is what we need to do, but rather just noticing a difference in systems. Many of my friends growing up wrestled in a couple small local tournaments a year while putting in a month of practice. In middle school those friends decided to get AAU cards because they wanted to be more serious and ended up being High State Placers in high school. I guess my question is - has there ever been these local non-sanctioned tournaments before in Kansas or has it always been only sanctioned tournaments? I am not looking for a debate - I'm just fairly new to Kansas and really just educating myself on our State's history and youth setup- as I'm sure there is a good reason why it's setup the way it is.

Last edited by Lars Lueders; 04/10/17 02:12 AM.
Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts! [Re: Lars Lueders] #246337 04/10/17 09:25 AM
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Cokeley Offline
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Lars,

In one word I can answer this LIABILITY...

How would you practice or compete in today's world without insurance coverage?

Iowa is now a strong USA state (Mark Reiland is their state leader) now was well. Kansas has made strides in allowing flexibility in weight movements, remote weigh ins, and deadlines to enter but space requirements are also an issue. Planning, etc. The competition for athletes at a young age is probably the bigger issue. Specialization seems to be gaining momentum at a lower and lower age. They want you in the batting cages in January as a 10 year old these days and football seasons for some elementary kids consists of 20 plus games with practice starting in the middle of summer and continuing until Thanksgiving. One thing I can tell you is that the world changes every day at a faster and faster pace. You either adapt to the changes or fail!


Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts! [Re: Cokeley] #246338 04/10/17 10:00 AM
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Lars Lueders Offline
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Thanks for the info Will. That makes sense. The liability of it was the first thought I had in regards to those tournaments.

Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts [Re: smokeycabin] #246355 04/11/17 12:39 PM
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"Football coaches hold our kids hostage and drain them of the desire to continue working hard for three and half more months. They threaten the athletes with playing time so that they won't miss 6am summer workouts and contact camps in the hottest months of the year. Their numbers are plummeting too but nothing is changing for the better."

I agree with Mr. Cokeley...and I am open to recruiting suggestions. I want solutions.

My numbers have plummeted in just five years...it has been a real struggle. I am saddened to see what is happening.

I am fighting the mentality to specialize and it is completely robbing my kids of time. When I try to bring it up, I am dismissed as being selfish. Darn right I am selfish...selfish of my sport, my athletes, our tradition.

Peter Sierant

Last edited by Steve O; 04/11/17 12:40 PM.
Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts [Re: Steve O] #246356 04/11/17 12:55 PM
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Lars Lueders Offline
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This suggestion and whether it will work has a lot to do with your athletic department culture and the football coaches.

A lot of what has worked for me is building positive relationships with the other coaches in my building, administration, and general student population. This takes a little while and won't see the change until a few years down the road. Little things like talking to the football coach about his games and athletes. Being really interested in seeing them succeed. I also send him many articles about how wrestling helps football and give him examples of how it does. This goes with every coach of every sport. We've just worked hard to make wrestling a "top shelf sport" in the school and for it to be viewed as a main sport like Basketball or Football is viewed. This has helped tremendously and at least half of our wrestlers play football in the fall. The freshman class is a big group to get a hold of. We start the year with 70 kids and I think what I explained earlier is a big reason why. It wasn't always like this in Dodge. I know the year before I took over the team ended with less than 20 wrestlers, maybe even less than 15. It takes some work and you have to butter up some people but it is worth it.

Like I said - it depends on your school culture and the people you have to work with as well.

Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts [Re: smokeycabin] #246480 04/25/17 11:59 AM
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Wrestling is a character builder and conditions the bodies of young men (and women) and teaches them discipline. It also allows anyone of any weight or height to participate so it gives an opportunity to those who would not otherwise be able to participate in a sport. Those were important considerations in 1950 but not so much today. Society has changed and a sport that requires 100% effort for 6 minutes followed by 2 hours of down time just doesn't have the allure it once had in a slower paced society. Its simply a different time and kids, for the most part, don't have any real incentive to be a sportsman. Having the most "friends" on Facebook is more important than having the most medals on the dresser. I love the sport, but I have to acknowledge that the crowds and participate both have waned over the past twenty years. Keeping it viable in the future, much less bringing its popularity back, is about as likely as reviving the passenger pigeon.

Re: Participation numbers, ideas and thoughts [Re: smokeycabin] #246543 04/30/17 06:05 PM
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Why don't we start with the simple things first.
1. Singlets
Many kids now days, especially the bigger ones, do not like singlets. I personally hate the compression t-shirt and shorts look out there but there are MANY kids who won't wrestle because of the attire. Start showing out alternatives to the singlet to make kids more comfortable.

2. Interfering with other sports interest/weight cutting
Most parents and students think that every kid in wrestling HAS to cut weight. We all know that while cutting excess weight is almost always beneficial it is not a HAVE to. Educate athletes and ESPECIALLY parents on the rules that keep weight loss safe in modern wrestling. Also some kids want to lift and bulk up for football etc.. This is ok, you can lift and eat during wrestling. If you eat truly healthy during the season while practicing you will develop a lean body mass and still maintain size while getting stronger, more flexible, and have better endurance. Also you HAVE to involve other coaches. I preach to football coaches the Explosion, footwork, coordination, and hand fighting wrestles develop that translates over from wrestling to football. Its most notable in big guys, wrestling produces better athletes that become better football players. Especially on the line and defensive side of the ball. It also makes kids tougher. One way we brought this to the attention of our football coach was by having him be a guest coach for a duel and a whole week of practice. He came away thinking of which guys he thought he needed to direct to wrestling the next season INSTEAD of powerlifting. We all know how huge that is.

3. Gain notoriety
Something that we as a community struggle with is displaying wrestling outside of our "group" or other wrestlers. PROMOTE, PROMOTE, PROMOTE. Go door to door inviting people to meets, camps for kids, fundraisers etc.. Tell people what its good for i.e. going to college, building work ethic, character, discipline, health, staying out of trouble on the weekends and after school, all the things good about wrestling that is good for someone's kids. Talk to kids about how it can help them in other sports, talk to an aspiring MMA fighter about how wrestling is the best foundation for the sport. PIMP THE SPORT OUT!!! Go out and be seen in the public, community service etc.. We have the most dedicated coaches and fans. But we have to go out and about and really push.

4. More offseason opportunities
One draw back of wrestling is generally there are no pick up games of wrestling. I totally agree with having these round robin tourneys where you just kind of show up. Have some relaxed folk style tournaments during the offseason. Not another Fargo but something fun, maybe play with the rules a bit.

I think these are all achievable things within the next couple years and I think with the growth of women's wrestling I think we will be ok. But we have to work at it!!


Do not fear failure. Not failure, but low aim is the crime..... Bruce Lee
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