Any plans for change to stop the declining numbers?

.
The experimental change is not working to sustain maintain,
Or grow the sport in the state.


During the period Nationally HS boys down 28,000 and girls up 8,000 in participation numbers. Overall numbers - 20,000 decline in HS participation - both nationally and in the state of Kansas an approximate 10 percent drop over the 8 year period - in HS participation. That is cause for some discussion on changes to the way we are "growing" the sport.


You Do The Math: High School Participation Numbers

2009/10 Data - NFHS
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatistics/PDF/2009-10%20Participation%20Survey.pdf
2016/2017 Data - NFHS
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatistics/PDF/2016-17_Participation_Survey_Results.pdf

National Numbers – Wrestling
2016/17 -
Totals - 259,391
Boys – 244,804
Girls – 14,587

2009/10
Totals – 279,024
Boys – 272,890
Girls – 6,134

Kansas Numbers – Wrestling
2016/17
Totals – 4,861
Boys – 4,749
Girls – 112

2009/10
Totals – 5,373
Boys – 5,319
Girls - 54

We are fighting a losing battle. We live in a society and a time where instant gratification rules. Kids have countless ways to obtain entertainment. And the kids that have an aptitude for athletics are watching espn and fox sports and any number of outlets for sports along with the onslaught of social media sites. The constant of all those, is the fact that kids see their “hero’s” living the life they dream of. And in sports like football, basketball and baseball giving away full ride scholarships and/or instant access to professional money vs a sport like ours that don’t offer any of that. Add in the facts that our sport doesn’t only not offer instant gratification but promotes the exact opposite. We don’t have the media coverage to promote our sport. There are lots of examples of why we don’t keep up, but it boils down to the instant gratification of the current and upcoming generations. Of which there is nothing we can do to change it. Better scholarships and more collegiate opportunities would help, and better mainstream media presence would help, but those take time!

Spot on!

I will ask the same question.

Any plans for change to stop the declining numbers?


The experimental change is not working to sustain, maintain,
and/or grow the sport in the state.

I will agree there are a number of factors contributing to the decline - lets list the factors!!!! Start a list

Then the leadership needs to come up with solutions how we can address them.


1) Quit trying to ram this 6 and under State Championship Belt
down the memberships throat. Bring back 16 & Under to develop
freshman and JV guys and help prepare them for their sophomore, junior and senior seasons

2) Focus on age appropriate development.
50-70 matches per year for a 5 year old is insane

8, 10, 12, 14, 16 age groups - folkstyle focus

12, 14, 16, 18 - International Styles, Schoolboy, Cadet, and Juniors



3) A focused effort to get middle school interested and started in the sport. (Grades 6th-8th)

4) Continue to support the college programs in the state.
This contains the future coaches, administrators and leaders for the sport.

5) For Kansas national teams - the main level development and support should be at the school boy/girl, cadet and juniors.

6) more camps put on at our colleges around the state and clubs and high schools in those regions need to work together.

The only thoughts/proposals making it to the meetings - have been driven by the folks that are at the meetings.

Translating what Jbeidelschies says: You don't graduate high school or college, and walk in the door at XYZ Corporation and become the CEO. It takes hard work, commitment, and loyalty to the company (wrestling) to become top dog.

We as coaches try to let parents know what they are in for, and that it is a marathon, not a sprint. And one of the hard parts is convincing parents that they will have to watch their kids get pummeled by kids that were taught technique that will win them matches at 6u and 8u. Keeping kids out, that have just about had their heads dislodged from their bodies by a headlocking 6u manster, is a tough sell. But oh my is it satisfying the first time one those kids that got muscled around, turns the tables on the headlocker........ Again, this is a lesson that kids must learn. There are always going to be people that are in a hurry to win, no matter how young their kids are.

Smokey, your cause is noble, no doubt. I think where our focus needs to be is making sure that our Novice coaches are teaching technique that wins matches at the 10u, 12u, 14u, HS, and College levels. Focus on the many feel good stories of kids that didn't win many matches as grade schoolers or middle schoolers(Bradley Little for example) that went on to be HS state champions and wrestle in college.

You also have to remember that there are also a LOT of kids wrestling at the highest levels that were also really good at the 6u, 8u, 10u levels, and still are today. The Bo Nickals, Joey McKennas, Bo Jordans, David Taylors, etc. etc. We can't make it "boring" for kids like that at a young age.

While I agree we should not put much emphasis on 6u (and often joke about 6u tourneys being for the "Intergalactic Championship", and tease referees to bring their A games, because this 6u tourney is for all the marbles), we do have to realize that the money that the 6u kids spend helps fund a lot of our older kids' development thru duals and such. So we can't just use them up and throw them to the curb.

Doug747 - The Elite Athletes represent such a tiny tiny percent of the population of any activity. But if we continue to lose participants, the Elite Athlete will not have anyone to practice with or come and watch them wrestle. I just can not believe you smart individuals can not grasp the concept that the trophy hunt needs to stop for the real young ones in our sport. "It is not hurting my son" I hear that crap from some - pretty sad - your son is not the only one being affected by the policies and plan in place. Wrestling is graduating college athletes with declining opportunities for them to give back to the sport - keep doing what your doing - history is being made - records are being set - declining numbers continue. To even have this debate with other adults leading these young kids - I am at a loss for words _____________ -

Sean McCarthy

Sean

I get your point, and the data will show you are correct. I don’t think you will find a “plan” to fix the issue of declining numbers. Unless you have a “plan” to fix our society, and direction it is going....btw that would be great if you did. Sports that require a lot of work, commitment, and are physically demanding are all declining. I am a football coach as well, and see the same thing in football. The only advantage football has over wrestling is all the media coverage. There were some great points made about the instant gratification factor as well. So I don’t have a plan, but I don’t think anyone could. Unless you make wrestling really easy...not a lot of work....not physically tough...give all participants a trophy even high school.....and get everyone to watch it on tv.

Craig Amrein

This is a good listen. Ben Askren has been putting out information that makes you think for several years. Many years ago he wrote an article titled "Don't Blame the Ref" which I thought was excellent too. https://www.facebook.com/askrenbros/videos/1903664446319728/

I'm relatively new to the coaching game. I'm 32 and just finished my 7th year as a head coach. I certainly don't know everything, but I've picked up a few things over the years that have helped increase our numbers and participation at OSHS.

1) Create the right Culture:
Put first things first. The most important part of my job as a coach is to help shape young men & women of character. You have to make time to emphasize building character traits. It's not always easy to do, but it doesn't take much. We have a theme for each week throughout the season. Each practice we try to do something that puts our focus on that theme and WHY it's so important. Maybe one day we discuss a quote tied to the theme. Some days we put the kids in groups after conditioning and give them talking points to discuss while they stretch. We write letters of gratitude to staff members in the building. We do a program community service project each year to give back without receiving anything in return. None of these ideas are new - and I've stolen most of them from great coaches I've known or studied. The point is, the primary focus of our program is becoming stronger, better human beings. Better people become better wrestlers - and winning takes care of itself. This shift in focus has changed our culture. Preaching controllables and performance over winning and losing has allowed our kids to change how they view competition. Give full effort, have fun, and let the results handle themselves.

2) Build Relationships & Have Fun:
Growing up I had every type of coach out there. Some coaches made me fall in love with their sport, and some made it easy to walk away. When I first started coaching I thought it was my job to be the hard ass. I kept the kids at arms length. I shared little about myself as a person. Practice was a 2.5 hour GRIND, every single day. Looking back, I was missing out on the best aspect of the job. The kids were miserable, and so was I. Had I maintained that approach I'd have burned out of the profession in a few years. Something had to change. I let my guard down. I stopped compartmentalizing my work and personal life. I started telling the kids I love them and showing them that I care. We work our tails off in the practice room, but we make time to laugh and have fun. Practice is no longer something the kids dread, but something they look forward to. There's certainly times when they need the hard ass - but the message is better received because they rarely see that side of me. Wrestling, and coaching wrestling, are tough enough on their own. If every minute of practice is miserable, and you don't connect with the people around you, it should't be a surprise when people walk away. Again, this doesn't take much. We started each practice the last month of the season with 10-15 minutes of handball. They're sweating harder after that than their traditional warmup. We give the kids time to get to know their teammates on a deeper level. One of my favorite exercises is 3H: Hero, Highlight, Hardship. The kids are grouped with teammates they don't know very well, if at all. They take turns discussing their personal hero, the highlight of their life so far, and the hardest thing they've been through. You can't force kids to become best friends, but this exercise allows them to relate to each other on a deeper level. Every year we've done this exercise our team has grown more connected to their teammates and the program. They begin to respect and appreciate each other. They actually bond over something other than girls, video games, or wrestling. The more they love each other the more they fight for each other. This is the foundation of our program. We break out of every practice on FAMILY!

3) Stop Cutting Weight:
Cutting weight sucks. Most kids lack the discipline required to cut weight without sacrificing their health, academics, and performance in competition. Their diet becomes a wreck - starve for a few days, binge for a few, and start all over again. Their practice focus shifts towards weight loss as opposed to getting better. Their grades tend to suffer due to the roller coaster their life has become. Most kids cut because they see a competitive advantage at their desired weight. Yet when they finally make weight they're incapable of performing their best. Stretch this out for an entire season and you've wasted a year killing yourself, under-performing, and have squandered your opportunity to grow as a wrestler. I'll say it again, cutting weight sucks. It runs kids out of the sport and stunts the growth of the ones who stay. Like most programs, we stress the importance of strength training and a clean diet. Get big, get strong, eat clean, and focus every minute of practice on becoming a better WRESTLER. Any kid who pulls weight on our team does so because they choose to (THEY want to). There’s times when I understand their reasons, be it to make the lineup, have a shot at a state title or to help strengthen the team. Whatever the reason, they were the decision maker. We keep a close eye on these kids and pull the plug if they can’t do it right or it begins to impact them negatively. The number of kids on our team that pull weight has dropped significantly over the years. The kids are happier, the parents are happier, and I don't lose sleep worrying a kid may miss weight or go AWOL and quit. In my opinion, cutting weight should wait until college. Very few high school wrestlers, and ZERO youth wrestlers, should cut weight. It's an old school practice that does nothing but lower participation and create a negative perception of wrestling to those outside the sport.

I don't know how to solve all of wrestling's problems. I'm still learning and growing as a wrestling coach all the time. There are coaches all over the state that could offer much more than I have here. I just know that this topic hits home for me. Early in my career I believe I was contributing to the problem as I saw numbers drop in our program. I changed my mindset, adjusted my approach, and have seen things turn around as a result. The things listed above played a significant role in bringing our program back to life. Maybe some of these things could help others - maybe not - I just know they've made a big difference around here.

You hit the nail on the head about fixing society, and wrestling will get fixed as well.......

That’s the goal. Bring more kids into the sport, help them grow and develop strong character, and send them out into the world prepared to make a positive impact. That’s the only way I know how to influence change - one wrestler at a time!

Just a suggestion, when your in your next wrestling meeting with the next generation of leaders you might want to point out that
KS high school numbers have been declining in KS and nationally - maybe there needs to be a discussion on why this is happening. Then what can be done to try and reverse the problem. Or just go with the status quo of the past few years of CHANGE - just ignore the old timers that have no clue what they are talking about - absolute no clue in growing the sport and youth development.

The Survey Monkey needs to ask different questions
smokeycabin Online content
Member


The Survey Monkey needs to ask the membership
What is causing numbers to drop on the upper end
of wrestling 13 years old and up and fix the problems.
Do not ask leading questions like how can we make space for 4 year olds
at State or on the national diaper national bus tour.
Insane - the team for change will be remembered big time.
Pretty sure the budget has been taking revenue hits,
the reserve is getting gobbled up, and expenditures have increase
For the travelers - I hear things like it (USA Wrestling) is a youth organization
garbage - don’t use buzz words with me. The last I looked we have College
guys representing world and international teams, Even with the growth of women’s
Wrestling - overall numbers are down. WHY?



Sean McCarthy

Sean,

I wasn’t trying to discredit what you were saying. I apologize if something I said offended you. I agree with you. I was simply trying to highlight a few of the ways I’m trying to combat the issue. I’m not a youth coach, and I think that’s the focus of the fight. I’m just doing what I can where I am.

Jbeidelschies and Doug747


Does Kansas Wrestling need to FOLLOW society where we give parents and kids instant gratification - or should we LEAD
and develop them differently then what is currently the process?? What the current Wrestling Society is doing is not exactly growing the sport.

Sean McCarthy



Jbeidelschies Offline
Junior Member

Loc: Louisburg, Ks
"We are fighting a losing battle. We live in a society and a time where instant gratification rules."

Trust me, the first thing I tell our novice parents is that they shouldn't expect to win right away. Our borrowed system is designed for HS and College success, not 6u, 8u, success.

Not that our "system" is perfect, but even if it was, I can't go to every other club in the state and try to convince them to do what we do. You obviously have more free time than I do, and you should be applauded for what you want to do, but society today is broken, and it is going to be tough to reverse. I hope you don't take offense to this, but I don't know that I have seen a specific plan from you to change us for the better? If I missed it, please repost it. My memory is only about as long as my ...... hair.

On a positive note, here is evidence that there are some people left in this world with some common sense......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/06/georgia-sheriffs-concealed-carry-sign-goes-viral.html

And another.......

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/04/06/nc...d-2nd-amendment

Lots of good points in this discussion thread. Just one other good idea is getting our youth competitions more excited and family/fan friendly with creating a season dual schedule between clubs or a creating youth leagues and having a dual schedule between all of the clubs in your league. Got to sell wrestling to the families in the communities and once its sold to them, they will get their kids involved in the sport and become fans of the sport. Why do more people go to watch basketball and football games, because they have scheduled times that people show up on Friday nights and watch the games. If club directors could get together and establish club dual schedules then use the schools to funnel out the season club dual schedules to all of the families to where it becomes the norm to want to make it out to watch little Jonny's dual just like they do little Jonny's soccer, football and basketball games then we would be on the right track. Fact is wrestling is a tough sport for the kids but even tougher for the parents who have to spend their entire Saturdays/Sundays sitting all day to watch a total of 9 - 12 minutes of wrestling at best over an 8-10 hour day in the bleachers of a gym. Yes, split sessions help that but not for families who have siblings/multiple kid wrestling in both sessions and volunteer youth coaches. You still have tournaments on the schedule of course, but atleast then our sport can reach out into the community to more then just the die hards. Then over time this will funnel into the HS's where more people in the community will want to come to watch HS duals as well because they are familiar with the excitement from the youth program duals.

One thing that I noticed about the Kansas Youth Wrestling System is the lack of a true "rec wrestling system". I know that we have novice tournaments but that still requires some type of commitment from the parents. Weigh-ins the day before, a USA card, etc. I know some other states still have tournaments where you don't need a card, you weigh in that morning, and they put you in a group of 4 and you wrestle. These kids would go to practices usually put on by the high school and often the high school kids would coach the kids at the practices. They might wrestle for 6-8 weeks or whatever. The club kids were the kids that were committed and all in. Without the rec system there are a lot of kids that don't try wrestling or at least stop going after 6U or 8U. If a kid is on the mat learning, even if not at an intense level since they are a youngster, they still could be pretty tough in high school. They have a understanding of their hips, basic fundamentals, etc. It seems like we are a very top heavy state with a lack of depth. I am sure there are many factors to this but my theory is that the absence of a rec system could be one of those main factors.

From a parent’s perspective the youth clubs on the MO side (K-8, no HS division in MOUSAW) do a HORRIBLE job letting the community know they even exist. No fliers in the schools, nothing. Almost felt like we were trying to join the mafia trying to get my son started, found our local club online by accident.

Even talking to family friends (some of whom now wrestle) I was surprised by the number of people who didnt realize youth wrestling existed AT ALL. More kids may try it out if they’re aware it’s out there.
Length of the folk style doesn’t help recruitment either. MOUSA state tournament was just last weekend. 2-3wks later than last year, regular season ran 5 full months. Not an issue for everybody, my son practices year round and I know of several clubs who offer year round practices and/or switch to freestyle after state but kids (and their families) trying something new may not want a nearly half year commitment. I’m sure with a 5 month season we lose kids in MO because of the overlap with the spring sports season too.