Kansas Wrestling - Weight Class Changes

As of March 11, 2005 we have the following numbers:

7763 Total Competitors

6-under 1673
8-under 1581
10-under 1471
12-under 1302
14-under 1092
16-under 644

I see on the Kids Division page that the weight classes were modified at the State Body Meeting in 1995, and modified in September of 1999.

Recognized Weight Classes: ( Qualifiers )

KS. USAW
6-U 0 9
8-U 18 13
10-U 20 15
12-U 22 19
14-U 24 17
16-U 20 15

Total 104 88


Why not use the recognized weights by USAW with minor modifications.

6-U 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, HWT. ( modify to add 35)
8-U 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 87, 95, 103, 112, 120, HWT. ( modify to add 40, 45 )
10-U 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, HWT. ( modify to add 50, 55 )
12-U 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 145, 165, 185, 205, 225, HWT. ( modify to add 60, 65 )
14-U 84, 91, 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, HWT. ( modify to add 70, 77 )
16-U 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, HWT. ( modify to add 245 )

This would bring the number of total weight classes to 98, with the modifications listed.


I want to point out these are just my thoughts, but with the number of deserving kids that make up the largest age group in Kansas, why would we exclude them from wrestling kids, in their age bracket, at STATE!

FACT: It is illegal for a 14-under kid to wrestle a 16-under kid at Subs, District and STATE.

Why would I want my preschooler ( 5 year old ) wrestling a possible 3rd or 4th grade ( 9 year old ) kid?

And why does the age not start 1-1-2005 as it does according to USAW?
I will let somebody else argue that point.

What are your thoughts?

Good post Jeff, you are correct. The 6 & under money is great to take all year long, but not good enough the last three weeks of the year when it is the most important.

Kit Powell

It appears there are opportunities for us to save money, time, and have enough space to give 12,14, and 16 full size, circular area mats. To me it is unacceptable to have shared out-of-bounds lines at the state tournament. It causes officials to compromise their focus on the match, possible injuries to competitors on both surfaces, too many out of bounds situations, and just an overall unsafe situation.

I agree with everything Jeff says. I am not a big supporter of either 16 or 6 state but there is a much more valid argument for 6 and under. The data speaks for itself. The 16's can wrestle Freestyle and Greco if they didn't qualify for high school state. Our high school state tournaments are already so watered down (another topic) why does USA have to give them another chance?

I'm for considering the USAW weight classes. I think there needs to be a 125 & 135 lb. 12 & under. However, the USAW 15 lb. jump from 130 to 145 at 12 & under seems to be a bit much. I realize my son will be 14 & under next year, but I still believe changes should be considered.

I dont see what everybody has against 16 and under wrestlers. Kids club gives them more experience for their junior and senior year. There are some kids that dont make it to state in high school that would like to, so they compete in kids club to get that chance.

Mom160,

It's not that anyone has anything "against" the 16U division. But in the opinion of many it's time has come and gone with the growth of freestyle and greco wrestling. Many of us given the choice would rather have the 6U kids at state and let the 16U kids start earlier with freestyle/greco. That doesn't mean once a child reaches 15 yrs. of age that we suddenly begin hating them. To use your example why do we cut it off at 16 yrs of age and why not 18? Plus, there is no individual or group "rights" involved in any of this, it is simply what the clubs vote. The 16U have a chance to go to state every year with their respective schools, the 6U don't.

Mom160,

You should look around at the other states and gather some facts. As SF02 stated, no one is against 16U. The consideration is supported by the numbers. Look how few 16's wrestle vs. 6's. If anything, the funds paid during the year by the 6's should give them the "right" to have a real state tournament. Back in the 70's and 80's there wasn't a 16U division. Given the constraints on funds and space the prudent decision would be to have a seperate tournament or no tournament for them. They wouldn't even have to have a qualifier if they were independent. You could use 32 man brackets and have a one day event. Just an idea. I support ALL wrestling but I feel there is room for some improvement for the kids not yet in high school.

My son is in the 8 and under and we won't ever have a six and under wrestler in our family. Our daughter doesn't have an interest in the sport. I won't live through either of them as I was not a wrestler. My interests are finding a way to help them with their interests, not mine. I don't have any ulterior motives for wanting 6 and unders at the State Tournament other than seeing those little guys/gals try to win in that atmosphere.

They pay their money for a card and membership just like everyone else. Do these 6 and under kids pay anything during the year that is used for the State Tournament? I really know very little about the financial aspect of Kansas Kids Wrestling. I am sure someone can fill me in right after my post. How is the state tourney funded?

Why exclude them based on age? Some of them won't be mature enough to handle state at any age, some will be at 6, let the parents decide. Sure they will cry when they lose, a lot of them do this every weekend if they lose, this isn't just 6 and unders.

From a common sense standpoint why would any organization exclude 1654 members/participants for any reason from attempting to show the skills they have learned in front of the big crowd? I really enjoy watching the six and unders try.

I hadn't thought about it till I reviewed my post but many girls might have a better chance of winning at the six and under age now also. Don't know if this is sexist or not but many don't participate past age 10 when there seems to be a change in strength between the sexes.

Everything that is done to encourage any wrestler breeds more insight/interest about my son's sport, that only encourages more to join. We only get better as the competition gets better. Wrestling in Kansas appears hampered by the regulations from KSHAA about participation in tournaments during the athletes athletic season.(I know that is a whole other issue) Is eliminating 6 and unders at state in their own age bracket another method of hampering? I know my son would be discouraged this year if I told him he had to bump up to 10 and under to make it to state.

How would it affect the interest if we told our 16 year olds we had decided to allow 18 year olds and they would have to bump up also or wrestle in a combined 16 and 18 year old bracket?

I really don't know what will happen, I would vote for 6 and under wrestlers and 16 and under at our State in Topeka or anyplace it had to be to accomodate all of them.

I have rambled on long enough. Hope everyone has a successful end of the year. My son/family has really enjoyed learning the little we do about wrestling. Discussion only breeds new ideas.

In the past 6 months the Kids Board has requested a study of all weight groups. I am in the process of getting and studying the seeding imformation from all subs this year and I will add to the past five years of Kids State imformation. I am also looking at other states.

I beleive the results will surprise a lot people.

My thoughts are this process could and should change many things we currently do as a state, and it will take some time.

1. Remember that ALL age groups are important to Kansas wrestling.
2. Freestlye and Greco are very important to all wrestlers that want to suceed at the national level and we need to find a way to make it more sucessful in Kansas.
3. As the State tournament goes out for bid next year this would be the time to take a hard look at State Tournament and look at tweeking the format a little. This is easier said that done, but I am willing to look at it as well.

All of the above ideas are good ones, keep them coming.

Ned

Ned,

Will your study tell us how many 6U kids are wrestling up in the 8U division at qualifiers and what weights that might include?

Ned,

Can you answer why we use a different age cutoff date than USA Wrestling?

Will

Will,

We used to use the same calendar year cutoff as USA Wrestling. Several years ago, it was changed to August 31. The primary argument that was made, as I remember it, was that it was more appropriate to use a school year cutoff (keeping the same 24-month range).

Mike what would it take to get the 6 and under in the state tournement next year

I would like to point out that our summer freestyle programs are very unorganized compared to other states, many of our high school kids have no interest in summer wrestling. They would much rather play baseball and do other things than wrestle all year. Having been to many freestyle tournaments myself they are very laid back, lots of fun for sure, but the intensity and will to win at these non national tournaments is not the same as folkstyle here in kansas. That being said it is a major reason I still support the 16 and U age group.

As far as mat space is concerned I tend to have a different opinion than Mr. Cokeley does. As long as I have been around kids wrestling I have never seen anything that amounts to a serious injury to competitiors from the participants of two seperate mats running into each other. Its been 15 years now and I've yet to see it happpen, not to say that it has never happened or couldn't, its just not a common thing. As far as going out of bounds in concerned, it doens't matter how big of a mat you give kids they are going to go out of bounds. Heck Salina had one of the bigggest mats I've ever seen down on mat 14 and kids were still going out. Coaches are still teaching kids to use the edge of the mat. The way to stop kids from going out is make them stay in the center and call stalling for those wrestlers who don't circle to the center, push kids out of bounds when they stand up, or run out of bounds when they stand up. I use this on 1/2 mats and the wrestling stays in bounds most of the match.

I'm not against using full mats, in fact I much prefer them, but I am against taking out age groups, and disallowing another simply for the purpose of accomodating the other 4. Perhaps there can be a way to make room for every age class.

Adding a 6 & Under division to the state tournament would take a vote of the clubs voting at the state body meeting.

This is taken directly from Section I Article IX of the Kansas Kids constitution :
This is the procedure that would need to be followed. I should inform you that many votes on this issue have been held in the past, and the clubs have consistently voted overwhelmingly against adding a 6 & Under division to the state tournament.

Some great discussion fellas. I think Nigel makes a couple of good points when it comes to freestyle. I think we lose kids interests and their parents as well by having too long of a season. Here are a couple wild ideas

End the kids folkstyle season near the high school state time. Cut off the ages similar to Missouri, no one above eighth grade.

Transition in to freestyle now, (march) get your national teams set early, have a state freestyle tourney in late April or early May.

Mike,

Adding 6-unders to the State Tourney as the weights are now would be pretty much impossible. Adding 6's with the modified weights would be no problem. You would have less total brackets as long as the weights were modified to represent USAW's recognized weights.

I hope Club Directors who attend the State Body Meeting recognize that fact.

I dont want anyone getting confused.

I would like to see 16's at State as well as 6's, modified weight classes would allow that!

Sportsfan02

Some of the subs are sending that imformation, some are not. I will try and get that imfo.

Ned

GOD! I LOVE THIS SPORT!

I enjoy watching the older boys (14 & 16)with maybe 8 to 10 years experience. This is their Grand State. Some these guys may qualify for high school state and never even make it to Kids State. That is a pretty high caliber of wrestling.
I do enjoy watching the 6 & 8's but they still have another 8 to 10 years for their grand state.
I have never heard any talk about the total number of matches a kid can wrestle in a year like they do with high school. I worry about the toll on these young bodies. In baseball they do not want them throwing a curve ball to early because of their physical development. I kind of feel the same way with a kids 4-13 years wrestling over 25 matches in a year. In high school they have a point system limiting the number of matches. I know that should be the responsibility of the parents monitoring the kids number of matches. I have heard some parents at tournaments say their 6 or 8 year old is 50-4 this year. That is a lot of matches nearly 2 years worth.