At my request, Greg Grater has posted an explanation of the bracket numbering system that will be used at the 2002 Kansas Kids Folkstyle Championships, along with the reasons for using that system. Click here to see Greg\'s letter.

I read Mr. Grater's letter. I knew that it would be difficult to change this tournament format this week if it had already been decided to go forward with it. I hope at this point that everyone will stop trying to change it this year and not hassle the tournament officials about it any more this week. Our goal should be for change in future years. I'm not interested in why this decision was made or how it can be changed. I just want it changed because I beieve it is unfair and not right. I am a wrestler's parent whose entire family had a miserable experience at the State tournament last year due to the decision to change to this new format.

In my mind this issue boils down to fairness to the kids and their families. Are we being fair? Is it really fair to have a wrestler wrestle once in the morning and then have to wait 8 to 24 hours to wrestle again while other wrestlers in his bracket get to wrestle twice more before he or she does. And why does that wrestler and family have to wait that long? Because they lost that first round. It is like they are being punished for losing. That is ridiculous. These are grade school kids.

Again are we being fair to that wrestler and his family? I do not believe this decision was made for the best interests of the majority of the kids and their families. I also believe it should be changed next year.

It is not better to go back to the motel knowing you are still competing at the state tournament on Day 2. What is better would be to wrestle your second match in the state tournament in a reasonable amount of time (within 4 hours) after your first match. And for the record, I believe Mr. Juby himself made that remark in a post on 3/24 10:47. I don't think as State Chairman that he is an unbiased source on this subject.

You may think that I am someone who does not appreciate all the work that all of you do for youth wrestling. I do. I would not want to put in all the time that I know you do. I know you all work hard. Those of us who are just wrestlers' parents put in a lot of time and effort too, just not as much as you. We all appreciate your work and efforts and most of your results are superior. I just feel that a bad decision was made to make this change last year. Please change it back next year. Thank you.

If it only took one day to number the matches then it will only take one day to renumber them. If they want to wrestle three rounds out on the first day then call it good. Why should we wait around all day to see "IF" we are going to wrestle again. No one wants to make two trips in one day and everyone wants to KNOW what we are going to do. It may not be about the money for Greg Gater but it definitely is for the hotels and other Topeka merchants. More importantly it is about the parents money. If the directors can save the parents some money and time they should do everything they can to promote the sport. Wrestle the first two rounds and let them decide whether or not they have to stay.

Why is it that every year our wrestlers work so hard to make it this far and yet we always have those adults who forget that it is for the wrestlers not the parents. If it is such a bother how the schedule is run those of you who have a problem should attend some of the meetings where they make the decisions. If you are too busy to do this then do complain about how things are run. Let the wrestlers wrestle!!

matmom,
We are trying to let the wrestlers wrestle. The State wants them to wait 24 hours between 1st and 2nd matches. Yes it is about the kids so why should the losers of the 1st round matches be forced to wrestle 5 matches to medal on day 2? Matmom, does your kid enjoy sitting in the stands for 5 or 6 hours to find out when or if he will wrestle again? This is about the kids and every post regarding this issue has the kids best interest in mind. What is your point?

I agree with matmom. Now is the time to be greatful and proud that our children get to go to state, not gripe because of how it is run. And all the post I see say that hotels are reguiring a two day stay so if you got to pay for the second night, It would be nice to have a reason to stay.

Just remember next season when you are to busy to attend the meetings on a matter that you felt was this important, that maybe it wasn't as important as you think.

Good Luck to all the kids

Wrestlers mother I do not agree with you. My wife and I would prefer to go home even if we would have to lose the money on the second night. We have lost money this way before on a family vacation. This is Easter weekend. If our son is going to lose his first two matches like he did last year it would be better for us to lose the money and go home to start our weekend with our extended family. Personally we can drive back and forth from Topeka so we have another option since we are only an hour away. But we would prefer not to have to drive up on the second day for the same reasons.

As far as the meetings go. You have a good point there, but many of the people who were blindsided by this new format last year and will probably be again this year are going to State for the first time and are new to the sport. They probably do not know how to get involved or would be inclined to do so that soon. It would be interesting to have a poll of peoples opinions whose sons and daughters do no win their first match about 3 hours after that happens and the reality of the situation starts to become clear to them.

I agree with matmom and wrestlersmother. Nothing is going to change this year. Many interesting viewpoints have been expressed on this topic, but it has become almost all-consuming on this board. Let's be grateful to all those hardworking volunteers who have made their decisions based on the information and voices they had available at PAST meetings. Let's resolve to have individual club meetings before the state meeting next year so that club representatives can bring their club's viewpoint to the state meeting NEXT year, discuss the issues and resolve it in an appropriate manner. I won't express my opinion on the scheduling in this post because it is not relevant for this weekend's tournament. Thank you Graters, Jubys, Randy Hinderliter and everyone else who works so hard to put on this tournament. Good luck to all the wrestlers this weekend!

KCWrestlersMom:

I really liked your reply. I do not agree with it all. For one thing they have improved this forum so much that a person can easily avoid reading about a topic if they are not interested in it. But I believe I know what you are saying to me and the rest of those who oppose this new format. I believe you are saying, "OK, we've heard you, its not changing this year, work on the change next year if you want it changed, and let's now focus on the wrestling this weekend".

I never did believe it would change this year. I also was concerned about bringing it up this week before the tournament. But I also knew that many people would leave this forum after this week and I did not want to see the issue slowly die again like it did last year.

At least I think some new State tournament people will have the opportunity to know what they might expect if their child does not win their first round match this weekend. I was totally unprepared for it last year. I am also hopeful that somehow the tournament officials will make it work better this year. I would bet the last match on a mat will be announced earlier this year and that would be helpful to a lot of people.

I do believe that most of the people who opposed this new format have also expressed their appreciation for the time and hard work on all those involved in the tournament. I know I appreciate it. I just think they have made a mistake on this issue that adversely effects too many people.

But all that being said, you are right it is time to drop it until after this tournament is completed and the wrestlers, coaches, administators, referees, parents and anyone else involved can reap the rewards of all their efforts and accomplishments. So I will personally honor your call to reason and I promise you and my wife (who will be even more happy than you about this) that I will not post again on this issue until after this weekend. Good luck to everyone this weekend.

Husker Fan:

Think about the families from the western part of the state who may have the same concers, but have to book a motel for 2 days even if their wrestler loses twice in the 1st day, because of the long drive home.

Maybe the tournament should be held in Wichita since it is more in the middle of the state.

The format was voted on last year. Just remember to let your deleget to the state meeting to know your feelings about the format. But remember that it is the votes that count.

It is up to the coaches to inform the parents of the rules & changes in the format & the state tournament in general. The coaches can refer the parents to this web site to get the information also. I live in Cañon City, Co. and my son who lives in western Ks. told me about this web site. Many years ago I helped coach kids wrestling & still enjoy going to tournaments when I can to watch my grandson, even though it's over 5 hours just to his hometown. It is much harder to watch him wrestle than it was his father. Just keep your cool. This is important now but it is not the most important thing in your life. Just be happy that you have a child that is phyiscally and mentally able to enjoy life.

Grandpa (57)

Grandpa, I feel strange addressing you that way, especially if Grandpa (57) means that you are 57 years old, because that would mean that I'm only 6 years younger than you. My son turned 11 in October, so you can see I got a late start with children. I certainly agree with you that although my son's wrestling participation is important that it is not the most important thing in his life or my family's. It sures does require a lot of time and energy from December thru March, but it has always been rewarding. Yes, his health is the most important thing. Our family always start our wrestling trips by praying for our safety on the trip and the safety of him and the other wrestlers during the meet. We start our trip back by praying in a thankful way that he and the other wrestlers were not hurt and for a safe trip home. I do appreciate your response to me, because I feel that you showed a concern for us as a family. Thank you.

Grandpa, as far as this issue goes, I just do not think it is fair that a wrestler who does not win their first match has to wait about six or more hours before they have to wrestle another match, especially when the winning wrestler gets to wrestle two more matches before the losing first round wrestler wrestles their second match.

If you read the topic, Thank You For A Well Run State Tournament, that I posted in this forum on 3/31/02 at 2:13 PM, you will see that my son benefited from this rule this year. But we would have prefered to waited to wrestle his third front side match until later that first day or early the second day so that other kids (who did not win their first match) could have wrestled their second matches at around 3PM when my son ended up wrestling his third match. Many of these wrestlers did not wrestle their second matches for three or more hours after my son wrestled his third match. I just do not think that is fair.

I will take your advice and let my club officials know that I would like to have the format changed. Several people and myself did let tournament and state wrestling association officials know last year that we would like to see the format changed back to the old way. I guess I should have contacted my club officials last year.

It sounds like you are a very good grandpa and that you also have a great family!

I read this entire dialog for the first time today. It's not hard to see both sides of the issue. As a side note, I have also been to split tournaments where a kid wrestled 4 times in a little over two hours--and parents thought that was too close together. Fact is, you can't please everyone. Scheduling--and numbering of matches--can often hit snags. Sometimes it works out well for a wrestler and his/her family, and sometimes it doesn't. When you commit to competition, you learn to roll with the punches--and you anticipate cost and inconvenience. If we solve a convenience/cost issue for one group, we are sure to create a new issue with another group. The kids will get their attitude about waiting or not waiting from US. We need to be positive and appreciate all the hard, thankless work done by those at the helm.