And, as to whether or not they were good -- that's kind of a relative term. We managed to get kids to state at Imac pretty much every year, we had kids go to camp out of state two years in a row, and we were --- by the 2001-02 season -- competitive in most of the tournaments we were in. That's why I said that if I'd stayed longer, who knows.

As for Maur Hill, that's another story; the year before I came they had six kids out -- I started the season with 30 and finished with 22. When you start with next to nothing, that's pertty good.

YEA! I had the chance to go to a D1 school and wrestle this past year gut, I instead went where I knew I could get a national title as a team and concentrate on my grades, oh yea and perfect my takedowns because I am horrible on the mat cannot ride someone and cannot be ridden.Thats funny right there I dont care who you are.

Gibby- You should try the burger's too they are good. I will be in town this weekend to beat you in golf.

VS Vike Coach

One thing that hurt Imaculata, there was not a kids wrestling program in Leavenworth.

When Leavenworth had a kids program, IMAC was a state contender in Class 3 during the mid 80s, with greats like Chris Bolin and Scott
Rieck.

I'm sure VS Vike coach had to develop everything he had at IMAC and Maur Hill. It is a shame they dropped there program.

We went from being on the verge of dropping the program to 15 kids my last year there. That was the battle I always fought there. I am very happy back in Iowa, but my one regret is not finishing what I started at Immaculata. Maur Hill was a no-win situation and I should have figured that out early on. Had I stayed where I belonged, a lot of things would have been better.

Thank you for your kind works Scholar.

I would like to comment on the idea of getting wrestling at KSU or KU.... I know there are a lot of huge hurdles to get over to even start to address the issue. I also understand the challenges with Title IX. The implementation of Title IX has hurt a lot of collegiate wrestling programs but for what it's worth here are a couple of thoughts/potential options.

1. Grass Roots Approach: There is an increased number of girls participating in wrestling. When I lived in Hawaii they had girls only high school wrestling teams. With the number of girls wrestling in the little kids programs one could potentially increase that number by adding high school girls wrestling teams (girls wrestling other girls teams). I know and accept all the challenges with doing something like that, but, if you could achieve that then you could make a push at the college level to not only start a men's wrestling program but also a women's program. This helps counter-act the Title IX issues. Just some food for thought.

2. As far as the argument about why kids go to certain level (DI, DII, DII, etc) schools...I don't think you can definatively answer why people choose which school to attend. There are entirely too many variables. My point in my earlier post was that currently Kansas produces a great number of wrestlers and a great number of good wrestlers that could wrestle at the DI level. The problem is that they do not even have an option to stay in KS and wrestle at the DI level. It sure would be nice if they had that option.

Okay, hold the pressses....

Vikes - finish what you started? When I coached at Seaman, we wrestled your tourney because we needed one more tourney. Thanks for letting us in by the way.

But to insinuate that Imac was on the verge is dishonest. Nothing against you coach, but lets be real.

"And, as to whether or not they were good -- that's kind of a relative term." Success is in itself, relative. Being good or not is not relative. You either win or lose. Records prove the point.

Don't try to pretend, with the "state qualifier" rhetoric that IMAC was doing anything. After breezing through the tourney, I noticed by the end of the 1st round of consolations, your wrestlers were towel tappers. Wins and losses are not relative.

And by adding the success you've recently had in Iowa is dishonest too. We both know that there are kids we create and kids we fine tune.

For example, my 1st year as an assistant, I coached a state champ. He probably would have done it regardless. All I did was fine tune him. My second year as a head coach, I had a state champ. He was a great athlete, but knew nothing of the sport. I created him - well actually, we created each other.

Jordon--184, affectionally given the title "retard state champ" would probably attest that his life has drastically changed since working with me. I won't say for the better because that's a "relative" term.

The point is that state qualifiers are not a benchmark of success, no matter where you are. This is nothing to "hang your hat on." Whoopie, great, yada yada yada. In fact, when I interview with schools and we talk about wrestling, I don't talk about qualifiers at all. I talk about state placers and champions and my impact, if at all, on those individuals.

Kansas Kids are not doing to bad on the National/Regional Level

The Results Are Available For the Juniors and Sophmores at:
http://www.bruteadidasnationals.com

The Junior Class - 1st in team points
The Sophmore Class - 2nd in team points
The Freshman Class - Not up yet - but with 6 or 7 champs this class should be up there in team points - Good job Team Kansas

Gibby -- that's fine; you're entitled to you opinion.

But, for your information, I was not the head coach at Imac the year you went to Seaman. The day you were there, only three of the kids I had the year before were even in uniform due to injuries and illnesses. I was at Maur Hill at that point. Unfortunatly, there were several kids at Imac who elected not to wrestle after I left -- despite my urgings against that. I'll be the first to say that any resemblence between what I had coached the previous year and what you saw the one day you saw the team in December of 2002 was purely coincidental.

As to my state qualifers here in Iowa, I have no intention of debating that here, just like I wouldn't bash you or your kids at Seaman. You have a fine program at Seaman and one you should be proud of -- as I am mine. I was not bragging on my talents, merely making a statement of fact.

In defense of VS Vike Coach, he had a tough situation at IMAC. I think his efforts their prolonged the inevitable.

No Kids program, no Junior high wrestling and probably no assistant coaches at a private school that losing it's attendance and was in a basketball town.

I know from personal experince in the early 90s they were having trouble finding a coach and I was told they might have folded then if they didn't get a coach.

Gibby thats why your so mad you coach at seaman, man that must suck, Whats the highest you ever placed at state thought so, and you coached one state champ you must be doing a fine job lol.

you talking about the dicksons, no one liked them because they beat everyone.

Gibby, I was good before I met you and you know it! But any how did we get started on bashing IMAC? And I thought at that tournament we went to which was a joke for both Maur Hill and IMAC, what together they had seven wrestler's?? Gibby you know better than to talk crap on people with " special problems". So before this gets out of hand lets just all act like adults and agree that 1) gutwrench1 has no clue what he is talking about and 2) VS vikes coach agrees with him and he probably does not even know what to think anymore 3) I was never a " retard state champ" I didnt qualify remember.

People like acbulldog are why Kansas gets the reputation of having a lot of stupid hicks.

Thank you acbulldog, you represent Ark City well.

"Ding fries are done, Ding fries are done."

"Bulldog's gotta run, Bulldog's gotta run."

As AC Bulldog so crisply wrote:

"Gibby(,) that(')s why you(')r(e) so mad. You coach(ed) at (S)eaman (-) man that must suck(.) What(')s the highest you ever placed at state(?) (T)hought so(.) (A)nd you coached one state champ(.) (Y)ou must be doing a fine job(,) lol.(correction "have done," I've been gone for two seasons.)"

Ladies and gentlemen - do you see what happens when you close the liquor stores and saloons on election day? Things like this happen. Oh wait, Ark City might not have elections today, my bad. They couldn't have elections today if they wanted - no beans for the bean counter.

Things to consider while keeping a watchful eye on AC as he mixes my blizzard/cyclone/tornado or whatever you call those things in AC - remember, I want two scoops of Butterfinger and wash your hands before you make mine:

1.If you don't have anything intellegent or witty to come at me with, then don't. I know, I know, it's hard to distinguish down in AC. Here's how you know - look at your grade card. D may stand for "Diploma," but you'll want to have one of those earlier letters, like "A" or "B" across the top before you're a challenge. Wait, that's Ark City - scratch that. See #2.

2. If your family runs the blue light at K-Mart, the slurpie machine at Quik Trip, or is helping slash prices at Walmart, you might want to reconsider a battling of wits.

3. Please do not "hog up" all the time at the local library so you can regurgitate every stupid high school dreamlander down there's favorite line while changing the oil in my car at the local Jiffy Lube, "I remember you, we beat you in state that one year." Wonderful, now my car takes 10W - 30, do you need me to write it down?

You see AC, what you lack is a unique sense of humor. Your bantering may be similar to that of Uncle Pete (I think that's his name - from Napolean Dynamite), but unlike the actor that got paid lots of money, well I hope you are figuring out what I'm saying.

we don't have a kmart or quick trip but we do have the most state championships in high school wrestling in kansas history.........................

When those of you question the caliber of Kevin Klemm. Ask Eric Aiken who he wanted in his corner while going at it with Henson in the Olympic Trial Finals or probably the majority of his bigtime matches from the time he was in junior high on. Those of us who were involved with Kansas wrestling 15 years ago know how Kevin was dissed by our summer programs. Fact was that high school coaches that were more interested in making money during the summer off of camps then to have the best possible technicians working with our national teams. I can not blame people that try and further their income but we as a state did not provide the best coaches we could during that time period. Politics effect even our great sport of wrestling. Those probably wont ever admit it, but the truth is Kevin was the best we had to offer and ego's, money, or whatever caused our state not to benefit by it and that is all there is to it.

To arcbulldog -

You had some great "high school" stats, that will never be in question. But one too many of those great 4 timers ended up pumping gas at on of those quick trips. Unfortunately, nothing any of us did on a mat in high school pays the bills. All your uneducated statements do is give others reason to look down on your Ark City program. Sometimes it is much better to keep your ignorance to yourself.

"many will doubt what you say but they cannot deny what you do"

Gutwrench did one heck of a job getting this topic going! WOW! I commend u!

tksnkc:

Good points, but I can only remember 1 four timer from AC, Justin Ware.

Whatever happened to him?

Perhaps this thread should have been titled, "Kansas wrestlers can produce nationally, but not academically." What gut forgot to point out was that Bunch and Roberson were (I'm purely guessing here) great students and were not questionable as far as academics.

That would be a much more appropriate thread. It is my contention that we can compete athletically on the national level. We have difficulty in producing book smart kids. I'm not saying our kids are dumb in the least. They have to make do with what is offered at school. This much is true.

In the JuCo ranks, our kids attend because one of the three things are in question: 1) academic aptitude, 2) an injury that they have yet to prove they can overcome (ACL, etc) and 3) seriousness of the athlete's dedication.

I'm not saying that JuCo athletes don't fully get after it on the mat and in class, but there may be a shadow of doubt that is either proven or nullified after JuCo. Garden City had a JuCo wrestling program full of questionable cases. Many were there to get their grades up so they can get passed the ACT requirement. They were very successful because OU, OSU, etc., pushed them in that direction.

Granted, this is not to say that my analysis is every case. But to create a post that demonstrates we are not good on our feet in relation to other states is dishonest. I tend to believe there is a conglomeration of questions in regards to our athletes from DI programs.

Those that can beat all the doubts and are recruited by DI schools have the ball in their court and then Nigel's and my assertations come to play.

Granted, with the "hot commodity" athletes, there are ways around those questions. But Kansas doesn't have a "hot commodity" around and they are few and far between.

My point is that in athleticism, we're doing pretty darn good. In the classroom, we're average as a state. We have exceptional students, but we need more in the wrestling ranks to push Kansas to it's rightful place in DI recruitment.

I find it troublesome that an athlete will spend countless hours on the mat to perfect his skill, but won't spend an hour or two at night to make himself more marketable in college recruitment. This is not just a wrestling phenomena, but other sports as well.