Well if you guys must adore coaches then go ahead and bestow all those terms to them. Wayne sure never ask to be one though and if that is all you got out of my post then you missed the point altogether. Hopefully there is a state out there that has some people in it that think Kansas guys are worthy because I don't think you guys think that. I have been a part of trying to get after Missouri for years but I will tell you what Missouri has that we don't. They believe in themselves. We believe in everyone else and keep looking for legends to worship at the feet of. To heck with that. It will be interesting to see how many Kansas kids benefit from all of this. My guess is they will still have to go to Nebraska, Oklahoma, Iowa, and Missouri to wrestle. People only think you are as good as you think you are and I just don't think most of our colleges think we are worth anything. We let them think that so they keep going out there and finding your legends for you.

Coach Westfahl:

I was not saying that Coach Jimmy May is on par with Bob Devaney. But Bob Devaney was not always the Nebraska legend. He got his start somewhere. He proved he could run a successful program at Wyoming before coming to Nebraska. I would not be surprised if the Wyoming fans questioned his hire at Wyoming in 1957. Wyoming did not compete against teams on the field or in recruiting like Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Colorado, Kansas, Iowas State and Kansas State so Devaney was an unknown at the Big 8 level of coaching when he came into the league in 1962 just as Jimmy May will be at the collegiate level at Baker University. Like Devaney, Coach May has proven that he can run a successful program over a long period of time. It is an unknown at this point whether he will be able to run a successful NAIA program. I think his high school record though shows he has a good chance to do that.

There was another topic that talked about the financial situation for students at Baker Universtiy. Kit Harris had a very good post in it that explained all the scholarship and aid opportunities available at Baker University. Have you read Kit's post on it? Coach I bet that there are a lot of Baker University athletes over the years and currently who are not from real wealthy families.

I admire your loyalty to the Kansas coaches and athletes. We all wish for more opportunities for the coaches and athletes in Kansas. What we really need as you pointed out is more Kansas colleges and universities stepping up and starting programs like Baker University has. What we need now is for us to show appreciation and support to Baker University for starting this new wrestling program. And we also need to show good Kansas hospitality by welcoming Coach Jimmy May as a new contributing member to the Kansas wrestling community.

Randy,

That link was a comment by a journalist. Just as Wayne never asked for it, I'm sure that Coach May never did either. I really can't see how our posts that welcomed a quality hire at Baker led you to believe that any of us don't think Kansas coaches are worthy. As many of us have stated, through the whole process we had wanted a Kansas hire. You have made your position clear that you will not support Coach May's efforts at Baker. I would hope that you do not also deny your support of our Kansas kids that choose to wrestle there!

I found this on Wiki(it mentions Alcarez):

Eldorado High School's athletic activities have not been highly successful; yet its wrestling program, headed by Jimmy May, was ranked 12th as the High School Scholastic Dynasty Teams of the Last Decade (USA Wrestling, 2001). Known as the “Dynasty in the Desert”, the Sundevil wrestling program captured over a dozen state wrestling championships in the 1980s and 1990s, including eight state championships in a row between 1986 and 1993. Producing numerous individual state wrestling champions, among them was Cary Dreitzler, a 1986 grad who won a state championship in his weight class in all four years, one of only two wrestlers at Eldorado to accomplish this feat. The other being Gary "Tiny" Scrivens in the late 70's/early 80's. The program also produced a phalanx of All-Americans, and two National Champions. Alfonso "Alfie" Alcaraz, as a junior, won the 1989 Junior Nationals and was named to the 1990 All-American Dream Team, and Matt Azevedo won the 2008 US Nationals.

Coach May, ranked by the Las Vegas Review Journal as the 6th All-Time Coach in Nevada sports history, left Eldorado with an enduring legacy. Four of his Sundevil teams were nationally ranked, and he had the nation's fourth-winningest program (317-20-2, .941) during his run which was punctuated by his son, Danny May, winning the last individual state championship for Eldorado High School (1996), his second. Eldorado also holds the Nevada record for most individual state wrestling champions in a single season with 7.

Commemorated in 1996, the Eldorado wrestling room, located adjacent to the northern end of the Sportatorium, was named in the honor of Coach May which houses the “Wall of Fame” with the names of over 60 state champions.

None of this matters to me men, and it has nothing to do with Jimmy May. It is irrelevant in every way to me that whoever he is, he is accomplished. Good for him, lots of people are. It is also highly irrelevant if I like it or not. I am totally unimportant and whether or not I "support" him or not is so unimportant that it defies explanation. I am just a man with an opinion. I will support him and Baker to the exact same degree they have supported Kansas wrestlers and coaches and it will make exactly the same amount of difference. None. The point is these jobs are precious few. They will not come along often and if everytime they do, the grass is greener in Nevada, or Oklahoma, or some other planet, then none of these young former NCAA placers and champions will ever ply their trade in this state. The end result of that will be that the out of staters that are hired will go to the areas they know best to recruit and fellas that ain't here. I am not a cheerleader for college programs, I am a life long Kansas wrestler and coach and it bothers me that this just keeps happening over and over again. This is my last thought on this deal and I don't delude myself into thinking what I think is important or matters it is simply what I think. I am not alone.

By the way I coached in that league for six years and in NAIA for eight and I am very well aware of the enourmous cost of private education. I sold that for a while and it is tough.

Nuff said. We overkilled that subject!

Which local Kansas wrestlers should Baker U. go after?

Any ideas for the 2009 season?

Westfahl, I understand exactly what you're saying about it being disappointing that one of our Kansas guys didn't get the job at Baker. However, Baker is the only program I can even think of right now that doesn't have a head coach with Kansas roots so to say it's a whole state thing is a bit of a stretch.

... and to play devils advocate ... maybe we need fresh ideas!

Now, before I get roasted for that statement I do believe we (Kansas) had someone that could have filled that position! However, I think perhaps we have fewer coaches eligible than we might think!! A few of our qualified coaches are currently in programs and may not have been willing to make the move.

To start a new program, administer that program, recruit, fund-raise, comply with all the rules and regulations, etc. etc. etc. and then on top of that be a wrestling coach ... that is a unique individual!

I have full confidence in the administration of Baker! I am confident they do want a program to succeed at the highest level ... and they are making decisions with that in mind!

In their first season, I would imagine that Coach May will recruit a mixture of this year's high school seniors and some junior college wrestlers. There may even be a few transfers from other four year college programs. Kansas has some very good junior college programs. You could go to the high school and freestyle forums to find a number of topics that talk about potential high school recruits from this upcoming year's senior class. I believe Baker University hired Coach May early in order to spend the first year recruiting for its inaugural season. He will need to network with the Kansas wrestling community especially the high school and junior college coaches. A good source should be right there in Baldwin in their high school coach Kit Harris. Besides coaches he will get good information from other wrestling community leaders like Eric Akin. He will also want to attend some of the bigger wrestling tournaments in Kansas especially this year. I will suggest some that I am familiar with that my son's team competes at in the Johnson County area and others can expand on that if they want: Eudora, Johnson County Classic, The Basehor-Linwood Bobcat Classic, Blue Valley Northwest Husky and of course regional and state tournaments.

... which regional and state!! :-)

By that time Coach May and his staff should have a pretty good feel of prospects and they should know which ones they want to attend. The staff may need to split up scouting regionals and state tournaments.

My tournament suggestions are just local ones that I have familiarity with. Obviously there are many more across Kansas. I would think he would definitely want to attend the Bobcat. Another one that I did not mention is the post season Metro Classic. He will also see some Missouri wrestlers at it. Many of the wrestlers have already committed by the time of this tournament.

It sure would make it much easier if all the state tournaments were in one location! If I were him I would go to Wichita where you can at least catch 5A and 6A together.

If I were giving advice to Coach May I would tell him to drive right on past the Johnson County Classic on his way to the KCI tournament. That is THE BEST tournament, bar none, that Kansas High School teams can compete in.

You never know when there will be an NCAA I, II, III NAIA or JOCO finalist or All-American from the Kansas side of the metro or national level kid. There have been a few kids from this area that have been above average at the college level and the high school level. Might even be able to go watch mutiple tournaments in the Kansas City area on the same day.

Smokey makes a good point though that it would be possible to watch portions of both on the same day. I doubt Coach May would want to pass up the opportunity to watch some of the Johnson County Classic since all of the Johnson County teams will be there and Johnson County schools would have to be a prime place for Baker to recruit this year and going forward. He should see potential recruits for the 2009 thru 2012 seasons at this tournament. Baker can probably attract some top quality wrestlers in the future from Johnson County since the proximity to Baldwin will give wrestling families incentive to send their wrestlers there.

I don't think Coach May would want to miss an opportunity to attend the KCI tournament that Will suggested either. That tournament does have a lot of top talent at it. It is a regional type tournament with teams from several states including a few from Kansas. No doubt there would be more from Kansas if it wasn't the same mid-December weekend as the Johnson County Classic. He might decide to attend the Johnson County tournament on Friday night and the KCI tournament on Saturday. He may want to spend more time that weekend at the KCI since he could see many of the same Johnson County wrestlers at the Bobcat later in January.

Will, I thought of you when I first read Randy's reply asking which regional or state should Coach May attend. You are correct it would definitely make it easier for Coach May and other college recruiters if all four classes 6A, 5A, 4A and 3-2-1A were all at the same location. Personally I am glad they are not but I know it would make it better for recruiters.

Dear coaches from Kansas - especially WESTFAHL - You should be psyched up out of your mind that this guy is coming to town. I write from experience. I have coached with this guy in the past. He is going to bring it. Westfahl, they did not hire a Kansas person for the job. Move on. Go to one of his coaching clinics and try to take in his philosophy about the sport. He will do everything possible to promote the sport the right way as well as do what is right by the aspiring college wrestlers that are still competing in Kansas high schools. He is the total package in that he knows how to inspire young people to compete at their highest levels, his technique is outstanding, and he is not afraid or too arrogant to continue learning. Kansas, you have just landed an awesome coach to start a program. This is the best thing to happen to your state since Dorothy found her way back home after being caught in a tornado while trying to find Toto.

Wizard or whoever you are. I just checked back to see what was going on I thought we were done with this conversation but I see you are not. I am a little old to be "psyched" out of my mind over anything but gosh if he has you to vouch for him then who am I to rain on his parade. Really, that cinches it for me. Now that I know you think it just blesses us poor naive Kansans then I am just "pscyched" about it. I feel better already. Thank you for enlightening me, I needed that......really I did....

One last and final time, my opinion (I can have one) has nothing whatsoever to do with May....NOTHING. I am making a statement about hiring Kansas people. It has nothing to do with him in any way shape or form. It also has nothing to do with that Toto person you mentioned.

I have had several discussions with college coaches at all levels over the past several years and one of their biggest concerns is the APR a new NCAA academic guideline and measuring stick for the teams. I am not sure if those guidelines carry over to NAIA and Junior colleges. So all you guys and gals who read this your Grades are looked at much tougher than they were 20 to 25 years ago - when you just had to maintain a certain GPA. There are nearly 300 fewer D-I schools with wrestling since 1985 and I am pretty sure fewer wrestling programs all together on the college level. NAIA schools are one of the few organizations that seem to be reversing the trend by adding opportunities. Just an FYI.

[quote=Westfahl]Wizard or whoever you are. I just checked back to see what was going on I thought we were done with this conversation but I see you are not. I am a little old to be "psyched" out of my mind over anything but gosh if he has you to vouch for him then who am I to rain on his parade. Really, that cinches it for me. Now that I know you think it just blesses us poor naive Kansans then I am just "pscyched" about it. I feel better already. Thank you for enlightening me, I needed that......really I did....

YOUR WELCOME WESTFAHL

Just wanted to throw in my two cents on a couple of items mentioned here.

It seemed to me during my time at Baker, several of the new coaches that came in had been from outside of the state. I remember when the track and cross country coach left, he was replaced by a fellow from Australia. None of the soccer coaches were Kansas people at all, either. I was pulling for the Kansas guys who were finalists for the job, but the trend at the university is to not limit themselves based on geography. Baker has brought in so many fantastic coaches, athletes, and professors from all over the world and that really pushes the school forward.

Also, I read someone's comments about not many Kansas kids being able to afford to go to Baker... that seems to be to be quite a baseless comment. I'm the youngest of four children (each of whom attended and graduated from Baker) and I definitely did not come from an affluent silver-spoon background. In fact, my mother is a music / technology instructor at a Catholic school in Topeka. Each of my siblings and I learned the value of our time at Baker because we all took out student loans, but at the same time we all worked several jobs. At one point my senior year, I had a work-study job, a job at a local retail store, and was involved with coaching at Baldwin High School. I knew of many Kansas kids who experienced the same thing at Baker, and I know that those who persevered through this have been toughened beyond anyone else's expectations. I also knew several people, many are good friends of mine, who came from well-to-do backgrounds and I knew several students whose parents worked at Baker, thereby entitling them free tuition. The majority of students at Baker, at least while I was there from 1998-2002, were from Kansas, and not just from Johnson County, Shawnee County, or Douglas County.

Just something to think about. I'm incredibly excited that Baker has succeeded in adding wrestling as a sport, and I think that Dan Harris and Kit Harris each deserve tons of praise for their visions and their efforts. It's too bad that this program is about ten years too late. I used to wonder how my life would have changed if I had taken the college wrestling route instead of the college academician route. No doubt, the class of 2009 and on now has one more great opportunity for those who wish to pursue wrestling at the next level as well as to receive an outstanding education.