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Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: usawks1] #145796 03/30/09 11:25 PM
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ReDPloyd Offline
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Being a referee has to be a difficult job. You can't possibly be expected to make the right call all the time. One referee may make a judgement call one way, and another referee could rule it the other way around. We have inept politicians, teachers that don't do their homework, corrupt police officers, military personnel that don't meet the minimum standards, and business executives who steal from their companies. Everyone should know that life is not always fair and that we don't live in a perfect world. Wrestling teaches these young competitors a lot of about life.

That being said, I also thought a referee's judgement call could have changed the outcome of one of my son's matches on Saturday. Had his call gone the other way, my son might have won the match which would have guaranteed him a place in State, something that he has never achieved in eight years of wrestling. It crushed him in a way I have never seen. All I could do was explain to him that things don't always work out the way you would like them to. I thought about the "what if" factor the rest of the weekend. I guess it just wasn't meant to be this year, or it would have happened. He did everything right this year, and improved to the level of some of the best in the State at his age and weight. I am proud of him for that, and I believe that when it was over on Sunday after he was eliminated in the 3rd round consolations, he too felt good about what he had achieved.

Last edited by ReDPloyd; 03/30/09 11:28 PM.

Lee Girard
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: mom4] #145797 03/30/09 11:39 PM
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J. Dale Offline
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Tell me this. Why do coaches have to go through background checks and officials don't? I personally have no problem doing this but think that officials should also do it. Could all officials pass the same background check that coaches have to?


Well you're just a special kind of stupid aren't you?
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: mom4] #145806 03/31/09 12:31 AM
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Spexy Offline
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IMO, if you watch 10 matches 9 of the 10 are going to have a "judgement call" made. It just seems it's the same coaches everytime calling time out, and guess what 9 out of 10, the call stands. Now a wise man told me this and it stuck in my head, quote, "You will win more matches on a judgement call than you'll loose" Just something to think about before you start an argument. And by the way is there needs to be a set number of times you can call time-out during a match....Holy cow some of the coaches are time-out crazy!!!


Eric Spexarth
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Spexy] #145807 03/31/09 12:34 AM
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wrestlingspectat Offline
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Originally Posted By: Spexy
And by the way is there needs to be a set number of times you can call time-out during a match....Holy cow some of the coaches are time-out crazy!!!


There is. The first one is a warning, the second one is an ejection. Although its a secret, most coaches don't realize just how lucky they are that they don't get ejected.

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: wrestlingspectat] #145808 03/31/09 12:35 AM
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GarateKids Offline
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cant refs also pull coaches cards? just wondering?


Carlos Garate
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: GarateKids] #145832 03/31/09 01:51 AM
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Spexy Offline
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Shows you how many times I call time-out!!!!!


Eric Spexarth
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Spexy] #145857 03/31/09 03:23 AM
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Cokeley Offline
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Kids wrestling is a volunteer organization, for the most part. Unlike high school kids coaches are NOT paid professionals. Kids coaches put in ten to fifteen hours during the weekdays and then give up their Friday evenings, Saturdays, and lots of Sundays helping promote, coach, take care of, parent, etc. many, many kids from 4 years old to 16. Most of them don't get paid and don't want to get paid. What do they want more than anything? To see their wreslters win! They want a match that is fairly officiated without bias. They want an official who could care less who wins but knows the rules, how to be in position, when to get down, when to keep it safe, etc. They don't want a know it all control freak who has rabbit ears and thin skin. The officials are the ONLY paid professionals at our tournaments. Although you could enforce the HS rule I think it would eliminate MANY, MANY coaches. Do we want that? Lets work on being more patient, getting more high school wrestlers involved in officiating, promoting wrestling and promoting food officiating. The process for selecting officials for state is "broken". We voted four the District 1 officials at our seeding meeting. This doesn't work because the BEST officials are officials that you don't recall their name! Last year I sent an email to EVERY District 1 club director requesting recommendations. I received THREE responses! This process is BROKEN. It is a good ole boy network just like the KSHSAA system! We need a tracking and rating system. It should be done online and mandated for the director of every tournament. You should earn your way onto the mat regardless of your experience or political connections. If you work high school all season and only a couple of kids events don't expect to unseat an official who pays his dues by hitting every Kid's event on Saturdays and Sundays. If we fight about throwing more coaches out we are going to become our own worst enemy by disallowing our most passionate advocates to attend our events and practices. That would be like putting a gun to our head and pulling the trigger. Lets work together to get along and improve!!


Will Cokeley
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Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Cokeley] #145860 03/31/09 03:27 AM
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swkskidsmatrats Offline
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very eloquently put will!!!!!!!!!
enuf said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: swkskidsmatrats] #145878 03/31/09 12:49 PM
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very nice Will totally agree with you.


Troy
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: willyks] #145885 03/31/09 01:25 PM
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wrstlmom1970 Offline
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Will-I have to agree with the Broken System statement. We just had this discussion last night at a club get together. There were only 9 clubs that voted in District 4!
Another issue I have seen all season is that an official will hold a grudge against a coach or coaches from a club, and it never fails, you will get that official on your mat, and going in the coach already feels that they aren't going to win. If the officials are professionals, they should conduct themselves that way and go on a match by match basis--not hold grudges that may be appear to affect the outcome of a match. I have seen coaches warned from officials this season before a match begins for an incident or the questioning of a call from a previous tournament.
Our clubs need to take more pride in putting the best officials on the mat at our state tournament. We talked about evaluation forms for coaches to fill out after or during tournaments--don't know how well it would work, since most of the coaches don't know the officials names, but can always go to a tournament director to find out.

Just my thoughts.


Sandra Hayes

Wrestle your hardest and leave it all on the mat everytime.
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: wrstlmom1970] #145887 03/31/09 01:37 PM
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I think the officials should have their names on their shirts so coaches know the ones they want to have at state, and the ones they don't. I can picture in my head 6 or 8 GOOD officials that I don't know the names of. Same with 6 or 8 very bad ones. I know a lot of them by name, but it would be nice to know ALL of them, or at least be able to look at their shirt to see who they are.

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: doug747] #145898 03/31/09 02:28 PM
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Ginny Wagh Offline
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The clubs hosting the tournament can list the names of the officials they have chosen on their flyers, or have them posted at weigh-ins. That wouldn't take too much time. It's not like it is a secret.

As many of you know, our son has been wrestling in MD/PA/VA. The officials here leave a lot to be desired. The first tournament my husband and I worked a table for, the official looked at us for the right call! Also, no official has their number on his shirt. My point being, bad officials are everywhere. One of the things we tell our son is that you can't leave your match up to the official to decide. Unfortunately, we know that doesn't always happen when it is two equally talented wrestlers, but it seems to make it better when there is a questionable call. Just my thoughts.

Congratulations to all who placed this year!


Ginny Wagh
KCWC in Maryland

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: mom4] #146002 04/01/09 01:49 AM
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from my experience it is always better to ask a ref wat he saw cuz if u just jump up and get upset he isnt going to listen neway i actually yelled one time this year and if u feel like u have to argue a call so u look like u r doing your job u shouldnt be coachin u should have to be educated in the sport and the rules so when u r goin to debate a call u know wat u r debating

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: joshclarktohk] #146003 04/01/09 02:14 AM
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Akin Wrestling Offline
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Awesome post Jon!

Make sure they know you love them no matter what! It's about the character values they gain through the sport. . not the titles.

I would never expect my own son (or any other wrestler) to live up to what I have done or what I haven't done.

Titles only last for a year or less. But what you achieve in character value lasts for a lifetime!

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Akin Wrestling] #146007 04/01/09 02:27 AM
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Beeson Offline
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Eric,

Classy response. Unfortunately not enough coaches understand this.


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Beeson] #146008 04/01/09 02:29 AM
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that is a great point...2 many coaches think of wat they may have or may have not done in the past and try livin through their wrestlers bak up and respect the kids as individuals cuz we are all different

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: joshclarktohk] #146101 04/02/09 01:34 AM
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bockman Offline
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I have to say that I lit into a young ref, ok maybe a couple early on in the season. I think I even showed one of them up as I was right and he was wrong. I did go up and apologize to both of the young men the very next time I saw them. Jokingly i told both of them I promise I will be good this time. I just told them to keep doing what they are doing and eventually they will get better. I told them I used to be a ref and you just have to roll with the punches. Learn from your mistakes just as wrestlers and coaches. I had no problems with either ref and thought that they actually did a pretty good job the rest of the season. Im sure they probably had their moments but hey not everyone is perfect. Im real close but not perfect. Maybe some of you guys just need to talk to some of the young guys and make them feel comfortable. Even if they blow a call. If you help them out afterward instead of wanting to kick their ass they can only get better. I havent had a chance to talk to the ref from subs yet so I guess I will have to catch him next year. Point of the matter is yes the refs need to get better but if all we do is beat on them then they just quit and we have to start with new refs all over again. Now hopefully I can learn from my mistakes this year and relax a little bit in the future. Hope some of you other coaches can as well. That makes for a better atmosphere for everyone involved.


Scott Bockover
Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Beeson] #146110 04/02/09 02:57 AM
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Beeson, You are a total class act! I really respect the way you coach your kids and the way you present yourself at all the events. Keep up the good work! And congrats to your son's state title this year. I'm positive all of us Kansas loyals will be rooting for him at the college and Olympic level someday. See you soon.

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: Akin Wrestling] #146121 04/02/09 12:11 PM
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Will,

Great post and I agree with almost everything you pointed out. You are spot on about the volunteer coaches and the time they put in.

The only descrepancy (and it is nitpicking) is your statement that the coaches want their kids to win more than anything. I'm not sure about that. Yes, coaches love to see their kids win, however, I think most of us are more focused on seeing our kids compete to the best of their ability, learn and execute the technique, be good sports (win or lose), and love the sport as much as all of us old "has beens" do. I know for a lot of us it is the passing on the love and passion of the sport to the next generation that is really all we want.....if winning comes with that, great....if winning doesn't come but some valuable life lessons along with some great friendships and a love of wrestling is what they get...PERFECT!

Erik is SPOT ON! Great post!

Shawn Budke

Re: Coaches/Unsportsmanlike/Flagrant Misconduct [Re: shawnbudke] #146124 04/02/09 12:51 PM
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Shawn I wish every coach thought that way. Unfortunately there are still coaches and clubs that are more about winning than teaching technique. Not all but I do notice other coaches and clubs yelling cow catcher, throw it, headlock. Certain moves that usually is not going to work in highschool. I still think there is a place and time for youngsters to use these moves but not in the first 30 seconds of the first period. I have had a hard time breaking my son of the headlock from last year but gladly saw him actually wrestling tough kids this year close without using the headlock. Last year he was a headlock freak. Im not saying these moves dont always work in highschool but its not a high percentage move. I know of 2 kids this season from our club that could have been state placers. One kid just needs to get stronger and learn how to stay out of the headlock. The other kid is an animal and once he learns technique over the bull rush or lateral drop he will not only be a state placer but probably a national placer. I am happy to see those coaches and clubs that actually teach moves. You will notice those kids going on being successful in highschool and those that were taught those other things may or may not.


Scott Bockover
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