No Cokeley, I never said that. I would never say the quality of depth in 6A is greater. The quality of depth is greater in 4A, that is kind of a no brainer. I might say that the top 5 teams in 6A are better than the top 5 teams in any other class, but after that in 6A, it drops off considerably.

I agree that the brackets of 16 would have kept some of Goddard's 8 man bracket qualifiers at home, only two though, the two that didn't factor into my points analysis. But everybody that placed for Goddard in 6A would have placed in 4A. They probably would not have placed overall as high though and that is why I gave Goddard 131 points in 4A where they scored 149 in 6A and that 131 was very very conservative. You suprise me with that comment Will. You of all people know that Goddard is no typical 6A team. They have one of the toughest schedules out there. Their kids are the cream of the crop. They have all competed for a long time. They all compete in the off season. Many go to the Brawl or Brute or both. Most compete at the Classic, Subs, District and Kid's State. They added to the proof of their legitimacy by winning the high school division of Kid's State.

Look at Chief's team list and that verifies my comment about the top 5 teams though. Four of the top 10 are from 6A, two are from 5A, three are from 4A and one is from 3A. Not only does this show what I said about the top 5, but it also shows that all this talk about combining 6A and 5A because "it is not fair now" is ridiculous. Now if you want to say combine 6A and 5A to make it fair you can, if you combine 4A and 3A. I could see that as fair and could go for that, but just to combine 6A and 5A is ludicrous. If you did combine 6A and 5A but not the others then SIX of the top 10 would be in 5A/6A, THREE would be in 4A and ONE would be in 3A. Now how is that FAIR?

Given the 2009-2010 classifications show Clay Center with 254 and goddard with 1160 I would think the fact Clay Center can even be in this discussion is a 'hugh' compliment to them. And, Will has a real point, 16 man brackets create real opportunities for upsets and injuries which can never be calculated in.

X....

Finally had some time so let me explain my opinion of your "new" look at the CC/GD comparison.

I had not mentioned it before but I do believe that there is merit in giving 4A a weighted advantage over 6A. Not much has changed since my first response to your challenge so my initial weight by weight analysis is still how I feel. It's far from "your stupid too". You cut a little new ground so let me try to address that.

112 - I disagree. Martinez is a tough kid but I see no compelling reason to jettison Wolf from the podium. He took 6th in a bracket that makes 6A/112 pale.

145 - I disagree. Dakota Hayes finished 38-5 and took 6th. I believe he's better than Elliott.

189 - I disagree. Anderson was a human wrecking ball that hit the immoveable object named Dylan Walker, on the wrong day. Walker rose to the occasion and wrestled a flawless state tournament. Nothing against Dalton. I just believe that Anderson is better.

215 - You are probably right about Hicks. When he got the Knudson monkey off his back, he was a new man. I was glad to see it and knew that he had it in him. I actually thought he might win the final match.

These differences and a few others kept me from crowning Goddard.

10-4, sure John, props to Clay Center on that. But honestly, the whole size comment would be more valid if we were talking about a team sport. We know that the individual nature of the sport neutralizes a little of that but sure, props to Clay Center for even being "in the discussion".

As for the brackets, the unbalanced 6A 8-man regionals create just as much of an opportunity for upsets, etc. as the 16-man 4A brackets. As I have mentioned before, in 6A and 5A but particularly 6A, the regionals are really unbalanced. I have seen many situations where someone did not even qualify through one of the two toughest 6A regionals and they had beaten someone earlier in the year who placed in 4A state. My son was 4th in his 6A regional bracket but placed 5th at state. He majored the #1 from one of the weaker regionals first round at state and then beat the #3 from the other tough regional who knocked off the #2 from the other weak regional. This happens every year. My son had also previously beaten the 5th place medalist in both the 4A and 5A state bracket so his 6A state bracket was just as tough as the 4A state bracket. Goddard also had a kid named Selves, a senior with a really good record and Basehor medalist, at 135 who had beaten the 3rd place state medalist in the 4A bracket at 135 and Selves didn't even qualify from that toughest 6A regional referred to previously. The fact that Selves did not qualify would be considered an upset. So if you tell Selves that 6A is easier to qualify because it has an 8-man regional bracket instead of a 16-man regional bracket, he will think you are crazy because he beat the 3rd place 4A state medalist and didn't even qualify in 6A.

Great to see your response Chief.
So now we are getting some where.
Let's break it down some more.

Ok, at 112 I agree that Wolf cannot be jettisoned from the podium for Martinez. Wolf is very deserving of any podium as he is as salty as they come. My son has had some great matches with him over the years. My point was that Martinez did beat Kolterman at the Brawl and you had said that you gave the edge to Kolterman which would be unjustified. Kolterman finished top 8 so Martinez could have which would give Goddard no less than +1 (instead of +3) there so that makes it 129 and a half to 129, Goddard.

Ok, at 145 to be as conservative as possible I will give you that which means -3 more Goddard so that makes it 129 to 126 and a half Clay Center.

I see your point at 189 but here is my problem there. On February 24, you had Banner and Blazevic, both 6A, as your #1 and #2 all-class. Then they lose to Beard and Chaparro and they get bumped way down. You could have just as easily left Banner at #3 but put Beard and Chaparro at #1 and #2 but you didn't. Because Beard and Chaparro proved better then Banner and Blazevic, 6A got demoted and I think that is wrong. Are you saying that you made a mistake with Banner and Blazevic? And if so Chief, then you could be wrong about more than that, namly your assessment of the whole Goddard/Clay Center thing. But to be as conservative as possible, I will give Beard 3rd vs. 1st which means -3 more for Goddard and a tally of 129 to 123 and a half Clay Center.

At 215, glad you agree with me on this one so Hicks wins and Goddard gets +4 here making it 129 to 127 and a half Clay Center.

So Chief we are back where we started with Selves as the factor. Earlier you said you would give Goddard Selves. He has not been factored in yet. Will you give him to Goddard now? Because if you do, that is no less than +5 which makes it 132 and a half to 129 Goddard. So, without Selves, the victory goes to Clay Center. With Selves, the victory clearly goes to Goddard.

Thanks Chief, enjoyed it.

***Re-posting these to the end of the thread***

FINAL 2009-10 ALL-CLASS RANKINGS!


TEAM RANKINGS:

1. Clay Center - 4A
2. Goddard - 6A
3. Derby - 6A
4. Emporia - 5A
5. Valley Center - 4A
6. Andale - 4A
7. Wichita Heights - 6A
8. Lansing - 5A
9. Norton - 321A
10. Garden City - 6A


103
1. Zac Gentzler - 9 - AC - 5A
2. Bryce Shoemaker - 9 - BAL - 4A
3. Kaleb Bonilla - 11 - GD - 6A
4. Dustin Reed - 9 - CB - 4A
5. Clay Mulligan - 10 - SC - 4A
6. Javier Vieyra - 10 - SS - 5A
7. Chris Sullivan - 10 - HUT - 5A
8. Jace Roy - 9 - PV - 4A
9. Anthony Calderon - 10 - GC - 6A
10. Chandler Gordon - 10 - SMNW - 6A


112
1. Dalton Miller - 12 - WC - 6A
2. Bo Pursel - 10 - LS - 5A
3. Trevor Boyer - 12 - MV - 5A
4. Austin Hood - 10 - LOU - 4A
5. Dylan Schumacher - 10 - TMP - 321A
6. Bo Newport - 11 - PV - 4A
7. Nathan Reed - 12 - CB - 4A
8. Tim Prescott - 10 - MCP - 5A
9. Hunter Haralson - 9 - LAW - 6A
10. Zac Dremel - 10 - OS - 6A


119
1. Zac Sparr - 12 - RH - 4A
2. Cody Beasley - 11 - WC - 6A
3. Blaine Smith - 12 - SS - 5A
4. Colby Watters - 10 - ARK - 5A
5. Tyler Dryden - 11 - KMC - 5A
6. Caleb Seaton - 11 - BS - 5A
7. Aaron Seybold - 10 - PT - 5A
8. Denzell Davis - 12 - FS - 4A
9. Colby Witten - 11 - MZ - 6A
10. Konnor Kriss - 10 - CB - 4A


125
1. Daniel DeShazer - 11 - WH - 6A
2. Symon Seaton - 11 - BL - 4A
3. Brett LaMar - 12 - SL - 4A
4. Jake Gentzler - 11 - AC - 5A
5. Garrett Jones - 12 - ARK - 5A
6. Zach Hoehn - 11 - WEL - 321A
7. Levi Eck - 9 - AN - 4A
8. Logan Singular - 12 - CC - 4A
9. Steven Plott - 12 - SS - 5A
10. Ross Whitmore - 11 - SMNW - 6A


130
1. Taylor Moeder - 11 - SJA - 4A
2. Colt Rogers - 12 - SC - 321A
3. Kyle Johnson - 11 - COL - 4A
4. Tyson Schmidtberger - 12 - RUS - 4A
5. Brandon Charbonneau - 10 - EMP - 5A
6. Lane Greenlee - 11 - GC - 6A
7. Mario Corado - 11 - PT - 5A
8. Dalton Davis - 11 - LA - 321A
9. Ky Biddle - 10 - CB - 321A
10. Billy Broeckelman - 11 - NO - 321A


135
1. Chase Nitcher - 12 - VC - 4A
2. Zack Tanenbaum - 11 - BVN - 6A
3. Kash Biddle - 12 - ARK - 5A
4. Jace Campbell - 12 - OA - 321A
5. Colton Eck - 11 - AN - 4A
6. Alex Bontz - 10 - AC - 5A
7. Uylesses DeShazer - 10 - WH - 6A
8. Kale Newell - 11 - SC - 321A
9. Travis Reinhart - 11 - DB - 6A


140
1. Tyler Anderson - 12 - CC - 4A
2. Danny Floyd - 12 - OS - 321A
3. Bryce Hood - 12 - LOU - 4A
4. Spencer Blew - 11 - LS - 5A
5. Vance Oliver - 12 - WIN - 5A
6. Tre Houlden - 11 - GD - 6A
7. Bradley Little - 11 - DB - 6A
8. Levi Schneider – 12 – ELL – 321A
9. Tyler McMichael - 10 - CB - 321A
10. BT O’Hara – 11 – COL – 4A


145
1. Ryne Cokeley - 11 - SJA - 4A
2. Joey Dozier - 12 - GC - 6A
3. Tyler Davis - 12 - MCP - 5A
4. Connor Middleton - 10 - ONW - 6A
5. Aaron Morgan - 12 - AB - 4A
6. Derrick Weller - 12 - PIP - 4A
7. Nick Collins - 11 - AUG - 4A
8. Cody Shavlik - 12 - DB - 6A
9. Dillon Scanlon – 11 – LS – 5A
10t. Chase Sanchez – 11 – EMP – 5A
10t. Kaenon Keiswetter - 12 - NO - 321A


152
1. Cade Blair - 12 - VC - 4A
2. Colton Picking - 11 - AB - 4A
3. Jason Seibel - 12 - SS - 5A
4. Jake Walker - 12 - STA - 5A
5. Sam Son - 10 - CH - 4A
6. Andrew Laib - 12 - EMP - 5A
7. Dylan Penka - 11 - BC - 5A
8. Landon Keiswetter - 11 - NO - 321A
9. Trip Hiller – 12 – OS – 6A
10t. Drake Lovvorn - 11 - HOL - 4A
10t. Sage Thimmesch – 12 – GP – 321A


160
1. John Hambleton - 12 - LC - 4A
2. Logan Gaskill - 12 - EMP - 5A
3. Nick Thibault - 12 - HAL - 321A
4. Reece Wright-Conklin - 10 - LAW - 6A
5. Jake Hattabaugh - 11 - AN - 4A
6. Spencer Shirk - 11 - NO - 321A
7. Lucas Cortez - 12 - EL - 4A
8. Todd Curtis - 12 - GE - 5A
9. Tyler Baughman - 11 - LS - 5A
10. Hunter Jameson - 11 - WH - 6A


171
1. Parker Madl - 12 - BV - 6A
2. Ethan Mumaw - 11 - JW - 4A
3. Benny Armstrong - 12 - AN - 4A
4. Taylor Baird – 11 – PRT – 4A
5. Evon Royal – 12 – JC – 6A
6. Matt Reed – 10 – WH – 6A
7. Matt Atwood – 12 – SC – 321A
8. Corey Engstrom – 12 – HOI – 321A
9. Chance Davis – 12 – CC – 4A
10. Jeremie Maus – 12 – TG – 4A


189
1. Dylan Walker - 12 - EL - 4A
2. Jonathan Truman - 12 - KMC - 5A
3. Tate Omli - 11 - MIN - 321A
4. Zach Anderson - 11 - CC - 4A
5. Zackery Grimes - 11 - OZ - 4A
6. Dalton Beard - 11 - GD - 6A
7. Alex Chaparro - 12 - WSE - 6A
8. Jace Banner - 12 - DC - 6A
9. Preston Werth - 12 - TMP - 321
10. Steven Cooksley - 12 - TS - 5A


215
1. Mark Kolmer - 12 - EMP - 5A
2. Kyle Caylor - 12 - WNW - 6A
3. Taylor Wuthnow - 12 - AB - 4A
4. Ethan Jirak - 12 - OAK - 321A
5. Dylan Matheny - 12 - KMC - 5A
6. Josh Hicks - 12 - GD - 6A
7. Nick Pearch - 12 - BV - 6A
8. Gage Knudson – 11 – JC – 6A
9. Jake Carroll – 12 – ON – 6A
10. Sione John Siale - 11 - AH - 321A


285
1. BJ Finney - 12 - AN - 4A
2. Tank Burns - 12 - COL - 4A
3. Trey Page - 12 - WNW - 6A
4. Beau Bennett - 12 - PT - 5A
5. Lorenzo Serna - 12 - EMP - 5A
6. Dillon Salmans - 11 - HOX - 321A
7. Cody Huffman - 12 - DOU - 321A
8. Jared Rice - 12 - PHI - 321A
9. Jesse Trent – 12 – DC – 6A
10. Josh Wilson - 12 - LV – 6A