The best way to improve Kansas wrestling is to get more kids involved in Freestyle and Greco. Just my opinion. That is what the Kansas Triple Crown is all about. The kids folkstyle season already has plenty of tournaments within a days driving distance. Going to AAU Nationals, Kickoff, Tulsa Nationals, Amarillo, Salina is plenty of a series. Let the local clubs benefit from the open weekends. Then support freestyle and greco the state did it right and moved state up a month. If a kid is that interested in getting the "bling" they will make the time away from other sports to concentrate on wrestling for one more month.

So the series would be just for a select few? The first couple of tournaments in the series would be huge. But if a kid is no longer in the running they will just quit. So the remaining tournaments will be smaller because only the kids that have a chance will participate. What is that teaching the kids?

Sorry Scott, I just dont see how this will help Kansas Wrestling. It will only help the clubs that are part of the series. The rest of the clubs will not have the funds to operate. Clubs will dwindle, and Kansas wrestling will be worse off for it.

this is just a way to make up a reward for kids who don't want to do freestyle and greco? I see no reason for KANSAS WRESTLING to get envolved or support it. Kansas has a triple crown if a wrestler wants it he should earn it.

Ok, here's an idea and shoot me if I am wrong, because I really don't see any other positive way to get Greco or Freestyle to have a chance to grow in this state.

There are a bunch of small tournaments in this state that either because of their location and or competition with other larger tournaments have low numbers in attendance. I would suggest that you begin incorporating the opportunity to wrestle those other styles as well as the folkstyle. You could offer 2 styles or all three in the same day. If your really bold you could run a two day tourney and do them on separate days if you didn't think it could all be done in one day. I have never ran a tournament so I have no idea of the logistics and realities of how this would work, but I do know that exposure and opportunity are the only way the kids are going to get involved. If nothing else someone who has the skills and the foresight could at least put on a few clinics at these things to show the kids what it's all about.

As it stands most kids let alone parents have no idea what Greco/Freestyle is about. Everything is geared towards Folkstyle and once the State series is done so are they. I would bet most parents don't even know it's available unless the coaches tell them or perhaps as I do follow the message boards.

What I am saying here is don't wait till March to start trying to recruit. Get out there from the get go in Nov and start exposing people to this opportunity. Give people a chance to see and do these things early on so that they know what's going on and get some interest built up. It's like anything else different, some people will shy away if they think it is either too difficult or doesn't have merit. You got to make believers of them and show them that it is something that will help their child be a better wrestler and offer more opportunities.

Thanks, Troy

I choose not to do freestyle and greco cause the wrestling season is already too darn long. We start football in august, sept., October and partially in November. Wrestling for us starts in October so we are already over lapping that. We also play basketball during wrestling then baseball starts in march through the first part of July. That gives my kid about a month off from sports to just be a 9 year old kid. I let my kid do all these sports just in case in the future he decides he doesnt want to do the other ones and has something to fall back on. I feel sorry for those kids that are forced to wrestle 10-11 months out of the year because if they choose not to wrestle or dont have a highschool program at that time what do they have to fall back on. I will support freestyle and greco if my son ever decides he wants to try it or it doesnt conflict with everything else. I have 5 kids and have to make room for all of it. Those of you that do freestyle and greco thats great and hope you enjoy it. That really doesnt have anything to do with what the series is about. All the series is doing is giving the kids that little extra thing to wrestle that much harder for. I cant see why thats a problem. I watch some of you on here not wanting it while your coaching and you coach competatively so why would you not want that little extra effort from your wrestlers. lets see put a big steak out in front of you coaches then put a hamburger out there. which one are you going to use the extra effort to get. thats the point.

I have two boys that play football from July into Nov, Wrestle from Nov into Jul (all three styles) play baseball from April into July and one runs track in JH. School. The both do this with the wife and I trying to get them to take time off. I guess what I'm trying to say is if the kids want the triple crown and play other sports it is possible. We don't need to make up another award for the Moms and Dads to push thier athletes into going after.

Andrew Steele

I think having some freestyle/greco mixed into our folkstyle tournaments is a great idea.we should brain storm some of the logistics involved with this sort of project. Such as teaching different styles during the folkstyle season, getting tournaments set up in split venues.Does anyone think this is possible? I think this would spark interest to wrestle different styles.

A few points:
1. I love the idea of combining styles at one tournament. If you go on Track Wrestling you will see that a lot of other states already have tournaments with combined styles. These are very popular and very successful.
2. A lot of people have got on here and defended the current Triple Crown series in Kansas.
I think Bockover was originally talking about a series type of events or combining some of the bigger tournament with a points system. There is only ONE Triple Crown in Kansas and that won’t change.

IMO
This series idea has a lot of potential and merit. I understand ALL of Chads points here. And some of them are very legit concerns. But we are already seeing some serious concerns with our sport. So many tournaments are having to cancel or reschedule, the entry fees going up so people are doing less tournaments, clubs really having to do some out of the box ideas for fundraisers to stay a float.
We have a few choices...
There are only so many weekends in a season and sometimes we have as many as 7 tournements in one weekend.
Either lenghten the season so more clubs can schedule tournaments for funding ( I really dont want to do that).
OR
Find ways to combine tournaments and let clubs work together and reap the rewards. This will also create much larger and stronger tournaments. Plus it will result in more profitable and better staffed tournaments. And if giving points and additional rewards to wrestlers that go to multiple BIG tournaments and consistently do very well, well I dont see whats wrong with that.
If we want to spread it over the whole state or one district wants to step up and do it, then so be it. I know some of these kids would love to go to tournaments week in and week out and see more then just the same 3 kids. Either your club travels more extensively or you do something to draw competition to you.

PLease keep all the comments coming! Positive or Constructive!

sorry, but sometimes you try too hard to be the voice of opposition, that you come across sounding silly. this doesn't make sense.

read your statement: "there is NO planning because all of us are limited on dates we can access facilities"- there has to be some planning, to fit in the limited date. if we all throw our hands in the air and believe it's going to fail, it will.

when did anyone say there was only one tournament with full mats? why would anyone steer clear of larger tournament because of that? believe it or chose to fight tooth and nail to be a doomsayer, there are more tournaments wrestling 14u on 1/2 mats and 10u on 1/4 mats, than there are running full mats. again having trouble following you through all this.

if it was a tourney series event they would, another way to promote the sport STATE WIDE! great idea, we need to spread the boundaries.

If you do 3 styles in one day on full mats you would have to rent the expo center to do it. I have been doing the trackwerstling at rossville tournament for 3-4 years. We run 6 mats & cut entrys to 400 just so the gym is not to crouded & people can get home at a decent hour.

We have built another gym at rossville so I hope we will have bigger werstling surfaces & can accomodate more wrestlers this coming year.

I'm sure it doesn't to some, which would include you.


I don't need to read it, I wrote it! No planning is required that pertains to this silly idea and moreso, none that anyone who has never run a tournament or belongs to a club that doesn't, would understand.


Where did I say that anyone said that? Rather, someone said that one of the benefits to this idea was larger wrestling surfaces. I simply pointed out that there are tournaments out there already wrestling on full mats. You just have to look for them instead of the bling.

You seem to go completely off track when you can't find a supporting point for your arguments. Please try to stay on point! Again, several people support exactly what I am saying but you choose me to argue with?
There are a couple of things which I can tell you and the other supporters of this idea.
1. Most clubs have one or two dates (at most), that they can access their facilities for a tournament. There is NO planning, that is what it is. If a nearby tournament has the same date then one of you could be in trouble.
2. There is no "co-opting" because there is not enough money in it. Money is what makes our tournaments work. Take the money out of the equation and there will be NO tournaments!

well sporto you need to change your name to negative -o. everytime someone has an idea all you ever do is say it wont work. do you sit in your practice room and tell your coaches and kids no that wont work. instead of tearing up everyones ideas why dont you sit on that butt of yours and think of ways to make others ideas actually work. then maybe everyone on here will think your such an idiot all the time. I am going to say this one last time. Adding a series to the equation is only adding maybe 5 dollars to 3-6 tournaments that already run every year. those other tournaments will still have a chance to run theirs cause not all the kids will go to the tournament just for the series. I think those that already dont like the idea will be the ones. I guess im not sure on why you think it wont work and all your negative attitude toward this but like i explained before. you put the big bling in front of the kid you get him to wrestle harder in return makes him better in return hopefully makes the other kids better. you throw out something small and you dont get his best every time. you can argue about the freestyle and greco is the way to go. well if it was earlier you would probably get more kids involved in that as well.

If it is the "bling" which makes your wrestler work harder, you are doing a very poor job of coaching.

When my children were eight and under they all thought the McPherson Invitational Trophy was great, until each had won one and the "bling" was off.

When my children were ten and under it was the competition which was important and the "bling", with the exception of the USJOC sweatshirt, never entered their mind.

i'm not arguing with anyone, sportsfan. i just couldn't follow your point. where i think you are mistaken is thinking that i/we haven't hosted a tournament. we hosted 3 this year a novice, an open, and subs. we had small turn outs at our novice and open for the reasons you state, NO planning. that doesn't mean that we should never plan again, or strive to do better.

i have thanked you plenty for coming up with the opposing views many times, however i saw no supporting facts with this one.

i'm not asking for any tournament to change from their one or two dates. all i am saying is take one or two of those dates and work it out so you don't conflict with someone else's one or two dates. it is simple, some just make it difficult

communication- call your neighboring club presidents and share information, it's NOT HARD. work together instead of alone, it's called TEAMWORK. the fact is we've done this in SEK FOR YEARS, and it worked the last few years clubs have gone away from this concept.


give me the facts to support your last statement- how do you know there is no $$$ in co-oping? have you tried it? seems like if two tournament have lower #s and lower $$$ a coop tournament isn't going to take anything away from that. i don't know we have never tried it, but you haven't given much as far as facts go, just the same IT WON'T WORK excuse.

the facts i showed were that there are always ways to improve, and it takes ideas from all sides to make something work. another fact is people fear change, it's not a character flaw, it's human nature.

what's that cael sanderson quote about learning, changing, and evolving.....and learning a quick and painful lesson? if we aren't willing to work together, and willing to make changes for improvement, WE WILL FAIL.

i'm not saying, if we don't get this done, ks wrestling will fall, i'm saying we need to continue to brainstorm and come up with ways to improve. i don't understand why you oppose this suggestion, like i've read from you many times "IF YOU DON'T LIKE A TOURNAMENT, OR HEAR IT'S NOT GOOD, THEN DON'T GO TO IT."

sportsfan no one is asking for your approval here, and if you don't want to be a part of the series then don't. keep in mind though if it works out and you ever change your mind, we will let you sign up. btw i'll let you know next year when our tournaments are, come by and let us know what you think.

lastly: get over yourself.... i quoted beeson too, and he didn't take it personally or take offense. just differences, get used to it.

I agree 100% with Richard. If your kids are wrestling for the "bling", something is wrong. They should be wrestling for the love of the sport not because of the trophy. If your kid is wrestling for "the bling", they are in for a rude awakening in High School and College. "The Bling" just isn't there. While I'm on the subject, I hate it when parents tell a kid they will buy them a singlet or a sweatshirt if they win. The kid needs to learn to be motivated just for the competition.

The only problem with having two or three different styles at the same tournament. You have to have full mats for Freestyle and Greco. Even for the 6U and 8U.

Well Richard I will have to dis-agree with you. Sometimes that bling is what motivates my kid. So I guess he won his state championship by bad coaching or what. I have the problem of my son is a good basketball player to and if its the bling that keeps attention to wrestling then so be it. Yes I understand the competition but not all 9 year olds do. guess maybe I am a bad coach and parent because my 5 and 9 year olds dont understand anything but the bling. You guys need to realize that times have changed since you wrestled so catch up fellas or maybe its you that will have that rude awakening when your kid gets bored with wrestling. Maybe the will maybe they wont but dont tell me im a bad coach because my philosophy for my son is different than yours.

Bockman,

Whatever works for you and yours should be enough and the truth is it does work for a bunch of kids. While I don't like the idea of bribing them to do a sport, I do see that some kids are def drawn to the awards as opposed to getting nothing at BB or other winter sports. Of course we all pay for that stuff in the long run w/ entries and such. Funny, if all the State series turned out was little quarter sized medals instead of the plaques I bet people would go elsewhere. Which is also kinda sad too.

As for us, we like some of the bigger awards like the eagle trophies and rings, but we have tons of medals from just about everything you can imagine. Karate, Swimming, Baseball, Football, Track, Scouts, Soccer, Highland Games, Scholastics etc.. I tried to teach my kids that it's not the award but the title and the experience is what is lasting. Nobody can take that away from you. When you get older those ribbons, trophies, medals etc.. will be sitting in a box somewhere gathering dust while your trying to get your own kids theirs. However, the fact that you were the xxxl champ of something in 1885 it will be there forever. I for instance have AAU T&F records myself that are over 30 years old and I am pretty darn proud of that.

The one thing my son really likes and this is mostly an OK thing. If he wins down there they give him a nice big T-Shirt from the tournament that says Champion on the back. He could care less about the medal/trophy at that point. The t-shirt consequently gets worn to death over the next year so he actually benefits from that more than any medal.

Bling, is and has being bandied about quite liberally and inaccurately here. Part of the problem with the current system we have here is everyone is trying to outdo each other on awards to draw in the kids. That is either because there are 5 other tournaments the same weekend or they are trying to entice out of state competition. So from my perspective what everyone who has been dogging the KS Series about, is really already being done and with bells on anyway.

The series system they use in OK does not have weekly bling. Just a hoodie and or a t-shirt at the conclusion of the series if you wrestle in 3 or more of the series comps. It's up to each of the tournaments to decide what they give to their champs. Most give medals, bracket and t-shirt, some give Trophies no different than us. They rotate who hosts each year to give the clubs a chance, some choose to host some don't. Tulsa nationals gave away Bicycles to Div outstanding wrestlers and such but not the series. If you take the time to look at what they do then you would understand it better. OK has just about as many tournaments a season as we do. I guess they are just better at doing things than we are??? To blast it because it is being done in OK and they are just different is just wrong and your guilty of being close minded.

I am really tired of everyone thinking that way as it costs people time and money and our kids opportunities because people think they got to do things differently than everyone else or they don't own it. It's kids wrestling, not a political party. Nobody owns it we all own it and it's wrong to let a few people dictate how and when we do things to the degree that we stagnate. KS has a long history of good ol'boy and nepotism locking stuff up all the time, don't want to change or grow. Lots of special interest groups and lobbyist keeping things "status quo" for those who already have the power and money. Look at where we are from it in Topeka today. Things aren't looking so hot for the State of KS are they. Guess what, that ain't about to change soon either. Look for more schools to close, more programs to get cut and taxes to go up.

I really hope that someone can get a series going in this state, if for nothing else the Novice kids. Maybe that would help foster growth in some form or another. From the looks of things Novice tourneys will continue to be on the decline. One thing about having a tight economy is it makes for some hard core wrestling.

You guys prob get tired of me rambling, but I don't really care. Lots of other parents see this and they might gain some understanding from it or maybe can connect some dots that I am not thinking of. Let people decide for themselves what is right or wrong by giving them information to reflect on. Everyone has opinions and opinions are like belly buttons everyone has one or at least had one. Maybe someone will share something with a Dist Rep that might be of some use or advantage for us.

Happy Easter, Troy

Ok. If its not about the "bling" then do away with multiple brackets at tournaments. Give kids more matches for the money. Saves on number of bling you give out also. Too many brackets, not enough matches is what is hurting some tournaments, imo. You should either be a "novice" or an "open" wrestler. Then you would have the best of both worlds, good "bling" and great competition... just some food for thought.