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Illegal Slam #175851 12/05/10 02:34 PM
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2 Questions

1. When a wrestler throws or slams another wrestler I think they say the knee of the offensive wrestler has to hit the ground before the other wrestler... What about when both wrestlers leave the ground and land at the same time? Is it just a judgement call? And wouldnt that be potentially dangerous if they are both in the air so no points should be awarded?

2. If the slam is ruled as ok, I can see if they take down is awarded but if injury is involved would the ref go ahead and award the pin?

Re: Illegal Slam [Re: BLT] #176651 12/14/10 06:22 PM
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Shane Koranda Offline
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BLT:

I'm not Official 1 nor 2, but the NFHS rule book defines a slam as:

"RULE 7, SEC. 1, ART. 1: A slam is lifting and returning an opponent to the mat with unnecessary force. This infraction may be committed by a contestant in either the top or bottom position on the mat, as well as during a takedown. A slam shall be called without hesitation."

As far as anything in the book that makes reference to "the knee" - it's not there. AS I CALL IT, a wrestler that lifts his opponent off the mat is responsible to bring them back to the mat safely. "Define safely...", hate to say it, but it's hard for me to describe and it really is how you judge the situation, move, force, "reasoning for lifting them off".

How would both wrestlers leave and land at the same time? Please elaborate.

2) Either it's a slam and called illegal, match is stopped and penalized accordingly/recovery time is started, or it's not a slam and wrestling continues. If the move results in an injury, the match should be stopped for injury time.

Hope this helps. I know a lot of people think we officials hide behind "judgement", but it is really hard to put in words as each and every match/situation presents itself with different things and you just have to be there and have a "feel" for ow the match is going to rule on your judgement. Unless you've been behind the whistle and calling a match, you just can imagine what it's like...


Shane Koranda
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Re: Illegal Slam [Re: Shane Koranda] #176741 12/16/10 01:42 AM
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It was a super athletic move...
Right arm in a high crotch position
Left arm around theneck or shoulder
Then the throw
It really looked like something you would see in the WWE
They both left the ground and landed chest tot chest
Bottom man clearly had the wind knocked out of him.

Re: Illegal Slam [Re: BLT] #176792 12/16/10 06:37 PM
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Shane Koranda Offline
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In what you've described, I would call it a slam, but I'm only one official...you know how it goes, ask 10 officials = you'll get 10 different calls wink cool whistle


Shane Koranda
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Re: Illegal Slam [Re: Shane Koranda] #176804 12/16/10 10:17 PM
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Sounds like to me he just picked him up and landed with him already on his back, wind knocked out of you can happen from a forceful double leg if done right... too many variables to include in the situation even aside from what you have described. Plus Shane is always wrong anyway.


Alex R. Ryan
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Re: Illegal Slam [Re: Bronco Wrestler] #176807 12/16/10 11:13 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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In summer wrestling we would call it three and a fall! If he picked him up high enough we might even give him a five. Folkstyle wrestling has been pussified.


Will Cokeley
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Re: Illegal Slam [Re: Cokeley] #176823 12/17/10 12:03 PM
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Will
I love a good slam or throw as much as the next guy...
But when does a concern for safety become classified "pussified"?
I watched another slam last night...
Same ref..
Guy shoots in on a double leg
Starts to come up to standing with guy draped over his shoulder and then he jumps in the air and falls backwards slamming the guy between his back and the mat.
The wrestler was unable to continue and NO DQ was issued.
Just seems excessive to me.

Re: Illegal Slam [Re: BLT] #177102 12/21/10 09:47 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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Originally Posted By: BLT
Will
I love a good slam or throw as much as the next guy...
But when does a concern for safety become classified "pussified"?
I watched another slam last night...
Same ref..
Guy shoots in on a double leg
Starts to come up to standing with guy draped over his shoulder and then he jumps in the air and falls backwards slamming the guy between his back and the mat.
The wrestler was unable to continue and NO DQ was issued.
Just seems excessive to me.


I think it is called too much, jmo. No one is getting slammed any harder on the wrestling mat than they are on the football field.


Will Cokeley
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Re: Illegal Slam [Re: Cokeley] #177226 12/24/10 02:41 AM
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19K40 Offline
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It has been my observation over the years most of the time if one kid has the other hoisted pretty high in the air, and there was a pretty loud thud when they hit the mat, and the kid being hoisted appeared to look hurt as a result, the call seems to be consistent with the old rule if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck. I don't have any problem with that, problem are those few exceptions that are either called a slam for what most call a good boost, or worse, my pet peeve, not being called when it really needs to be. Some kids do need dialed back. I think we all know when a kid really meant to do it. Takes away from the sport.

Re: Illegal Slam [Re: 19K40] #177261 12/26/10 12:51 PM
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With a lot of these returns to the mat, the flash to bang is pretty instantaneous. I agree with you 19K40, the louder the sound of impact, the more likely the return to the mat could be called an illegal slam. I have always believed that the really good wrestlers have an arsenal of weapons to take their opponent back to the mat, many of which will minimize the chance of injury. I also recognize that freestyle is another story, but I do believe we are talking about folkstyle wrestling here.


Lee Girard
Re: Illegal Slam [Re: ReDPloyd] #177263 12/26/10 07:51 PM
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It is folkstyle...
The young man was scooped and slammed to the mat...
The thing that concerned the most was how they both left their feet and the twist in the air...
How could that not at least be called potentially dangerous???
The other concern was that the ref justified it by saying the other young mans knees hit the ground 1st. I did't under where that came into play or why the fall was awarded due to injury.
I can see awarding 4 nearfall (maybe) but it should of been stopped.
Oh well life goes on!


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